Zerkers getting agro

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-Braxter, Nov 24, 2004.

  1. ARCHIVED-CherobylJoe Guest

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    "Guardians sacrifice DPS, and for what I ask you? "
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    On the Guardian board there is a long list of your distinct skills, these specifically answer the question of what you get ithat is distinct.

    Your notion that "Bers tank almost as well as Guardians but Guardians have no niche" is misleading. When a Bers is in DPS mode they are DUAL WIELDING and BERSERK. Both of these conditions are SIGNIFICANT defensive liabilities. A Bers tanks almost as well as a Guardian when NOT BERSERK and USING A SHIELD (so basically in Bers **** mode).

    Most Bers dont want to tank in **** mode, actually we are a liability compared to a Guardian in **** mode against certain types of mob situations (multiple double up arrow orange) where your class skills make you more desirable. Also no group in its right mind with BOTH a Guardian and Bers want the Bers tanking on hard mobs. Why? Because a well played Bers can be good DPS as a SA (utilizing Berserk involing skills at the right times to keep agro balance). They can also AQUIRE AGRO QUICKLY AS A SA if the guardian dies on these hard mobs. A badly played Bers can easily distrupt such a group but that isnt about CLASS BALANCE its about people not knowing their ROLE.

    Granted, in easy no arrow exp mobs situations a Bers is a superior tank, the basic agro lock of Bloodlust is a nice thing. But is that why Guardians are complaining? Because they are not the tank of choice for EASY NO ARROW mobs? Guys it has been stated AD NASEUM that ANY of the tanking classes should be suitable for normal exp.
  2. ARCHIVED-Situationist Guest

    ive actually drawn huge amounts off aggro, even off of a guardian 4 levels higher than me, without using bloodlust. not a good thing when your fighting groups of level 24 mobs and they all start attacking you. im not sure bllodlust is whats behind it all. this has been happening quite frequently to me without the use of bloodlust.
  3. ARCHIVED-reakshavoc Guest

    Well when you go beserk it means you have no control over yourself-- hence the point about about being a berserker--it needs to fit your personality.
  4. ARCHIVED-reakshavoc Guest

    I agree let the beserker berserk and the gaurdian gaurd!
  5. ARCHIVED-reakshavoc Guest

    Listen to what your saying. You sacrificed all the cool stuff so you can be a better tank. You shouldnt be sacrificing anything. If you wanted the cool stuff be a beserker or another class. If you wanted to beable to gaurd and protect other class then be a guardian. Its a choice you make not a sacrifice. We are only 2 months into the game, why would it hurt to make another character if you dont like your current one? I myself dont have alot of play time. But if I dont like a character I try something else. Why do you have to be perfect on your first try? Play at your own pace and have fun its not a race to get to 50. Imagine if your level 50 and done everything already, what are you gonna do? Time for a new game or wait for a new expansion.
  6. ARCHIVED-Grimgore Guest

    Grim jus find it funy dat peeps not tink weez can tank an dat weer a liability against mobs..

    las nite in Varsoon.. solid grup range lvl 27-29 wif 2 heelers fightin lvl 34 ^^ Golems da fight went smooth.. grim only dropped below 40% health 1-2 times all nite.. heelers alwaz had plenty of mana an weer nukin fer HO's.. weez never had tu stop tu med.. Grim curius.. Wat cant a Zerker tank rite now? As long az joo hav a gud grup anybudy can tank.. As fer Guards complainin, dey out taunt everyone but zurks an are solid tanks.. grim take moor dmg den them an i have tu go sword an board wen fightin hard mobs wich lessins ma abilities. Grim not kno.. If dey boost Guards, yeah.. if dey nerf Zerks AGAIN.. dat will sux since weez have othur skilz dat not wurkin right anyway..

    Grimgore Bloodbath
    27th lvl Ogar Zurkur of Innothule
    Dread
  7. ARCHIVED-dreadx Guest

    I have also noticed as some of the posters have pointed out that Bloodlust seems to proc when I hit things not vise versa. I have had Bloodlust proc when I shot somthing with an arrow so I know it did not hit me, and when I was with a berserker friend of the same lvl he was using a 2 hander and myself with DW both using Bloodlust I out aggroed him every time.
  8. ARCHIVED-Grimgore Guest

    Grim wurked wif a guard yesturday.. he did da pullin, held agro fine.. grim tuk agro rarely while playin DPS even wif Bludlust runnin an goin DW.. Grim was lvl 28 an guard was lvl 31.. Grim only saw agro durin grup mobs sumtimes wen meez used ma new Berzurkur barrage skil..

    Also.. if dey get Bludlust tu wurk as intended.. den weez still guna proc like crazy.. mobs gotta hit sumone in da grup.. eithur us or anothur tank so it'ill proc fine.. Grim agree tho dat ids wierd wen it procs aftur shootin an arrow..

    So if joo have a gud guard in yur grup... dey can hold agro.. An i tink weez weer about even in geer..

    maybe weez hav tu make guards earn der muny tu hold agro an dey not lik it..

    OMG!!

    /drool

    Grimgore Bloodbath
    28th lvl Ogar Zurkur of Innothule
    Dread
  9. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Its quite simple, dont use Bloodlust when not tanking, ive grouped with Guardians that can keep agro off me while i have bloodlust up, but there experienced players and there people i group with alot, not everyone you group with can do that and i find myself not using Bloodlust in most groups if im just DPS.

    If you are in a group, and the tank cant hold agro of you with Bloodlust running, stop using it, IF you still get Agro then he is doing something wrong and its a good time to just become the MA for the group, if he doesnt like it, then he knows where the door is.

    Number 1 problem with guardians is they think the spell " Taunt " is a agro generator, its not, all it does is push you to number 1 spot by 1 point, so if he has for example 1000 points of agro and the NEXT highest in line has say for example 750 points and the Guardian clicks TAUNT, then he has just lost that gain he had on the agro list, alot of people fail to listen to that when i tell em this, also something i hate is when a Guardian doesnt agro on the pull, he should ALWAYS be using his best taunt he has on the pull, followed by his next in line taunt and maybe a third, 2 rounds of that should have him with agro nice and soild.

    Its not hard to hold agro, and Guardians can hold it just fine, but its also easy to take it, when u want too :smileytongue:

    Taemek Frozenberg 25th Berserker
    9th Craftsman
    Everfrost Server

    Aonein Amillion 26th Monk
    16th Outfitter
    Everfrost Server

    Enlightened Aonein Amillion
    70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
    Five Rings on Luclin Server

    "We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."
  10. ARCHIVED-Tristor70 Guest

    I really dont think most people understand there classes yet. It has been stated that different tanks perform better in different situations, Guardians are not the MT all the time. Guardians have guard skills that most seem to not want to use because they want to be the end all to MT. Take a boss mob, let the guardian tank he will do better in that siuation, if he cant hold aggro over the zerker than he shouldnt be the MT. Now take a multi mob encounter, this is where the berserker performs best in the situation. Zerkers are the crowd control of tanks. The problem is guardians want to be this too and there not. End of story. Both of these classes are working the way they were designed to work.
    I regulary group with a guardian and paladin, im a couple levels higher so i MT. If i get in trouble they use there intervene on me and we rarely have problems with this. They have no problem getting aggro off of me when they have to. The guardian also knows that when we get to the higher levels and fight the single boss mobs he will be the MT, multi mobs he knows i can control the aggro and i am MT. The problem here is not that the berserkers are better tanks or generate to much aggro, the problem is most people do not really understand there class yet and want it to be something its not. Learn your class.
  11. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Thats a good point Tristor70. Well said.

    Taemek Frozenberg 25th Berserker
    9th Craftsman
    Everfrost Server

    Enlightened Aonein Amillion
    70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
    Five Rings on Luclin Server

    "We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."
  12. ARCHIVED-asteldian Guest

    I think all taunts need to be improved, they seem very unreliable, atm i am better off chaining damage abilities to get aggro off someone.

    As for guardians hp/ac being improved, there is no real reason for them having a natural advantage over the zerker, they are both from the warrior branch-zerker has no natural DPS advantage over guardian, its the skills that make the difference, so improvements to guardian hp/ac should come from skills such as self buffs, ones that last awhile and give a decent boost...so not one of the stupid 2.5 minute buffs.
  13. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    I dont think there is anything wrong with Taunts, like i said, if a Guardian can hold agro of me when i go all out then there is nothing wrong with the class, its the player. People just gotta learn what they can and cant do, and how to go about it.

    Taemek Frozenberg 26th Berserker
    9th Craftsman
    Everfrost Server

    Aonein Amillion 26th Monk
    17th outfitter
    Everfrost Server

    Enlightened Aonein Amillion
    70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
    Five Rings on Luclin Server

    "We are the two halves of the Flowing Circle, the light and the dark. If either grows too weak or too strong, the circle collapses on itself. Here, I will draw a Flowing Circle in the sand for you. Meditate upon the dual nature of our order and ourselves as you practice Kitten Swims Upstream. Perhaps, if you learn something from your meditations, Brother Tenshin will teach the kitten to become a tiger."
  14. ARCHIVED-Feral Rat Guest

    At higher levels it is very evident that agro from zerkers is BUGGED. There is no way that during a raid on a x2 mob that I should pull agro from a Guardian 5 levels above me with the best gear on our server. And this is without Bloodlust, without Anarchy, hell, without going berzerk! And at 70-80% power remaining.

    This really needs to be looked into by the developers.
  15. ARCHIVED-Luviera Guest

    I'm a beserker, currently lvl 25. I've grouped many times with a guardian of equal or lower levels.
    Most guardians, i've seen work with a shield and a one-handed weapon and the make far better tank then a beserker with a two-handed or dual wielding fighting styles.

    I was able to use bloodlust (I buff before the encounter starts... I don't enter a battle with out it, I always use bloodlust) and used all my skills and only evaded taunting. In not any case did I over take argo. But, when I start taunting, its only a matter of seconds before I take over.

    Aslong as both are using equal tier weapons (white color or better) the only flaw could be lack of player experiance (poor handling) or dumb luck getting stunned to often and falling behind with damage.
    Any other case would be a beserker has superior weapons compared to what the guardian has.


    I've yet to experiance a guardian who can't hold the argo when grouped with me, so far I've played with fine players and I can say the make perfect guardian's tanks.




    The one thing that bugs me tho, Both the Guardian and Beserker has abilaties that are working at the best when there getting hit.
    If a beserker isn't hit, some skill will nolonger have effect, what would other wise increase its avarage DPS.
    For the Guardian, alot of its higher blocking parrying skills would be of no use if he isn't taking damage.

    Both class don't work at 100% what the can do, if there ain't tanking. So in any case, a beserker and a guardian grouped will result a loss of effectiveness to who ever isn't main tank.
  16. ARCHIVED-Dirtbeard Guest

    Huh? I sure don't know the mechanics of taunt, but if it puts you at the top of the hate list, as you say, then why should a tank taunt 2 times on the pull? The second taunt would be a waste.
    I'm skeptical anyway. If that's all there was to it, then you'd lose aggro if you stopped spamming taunt. Wizard X would have 900 aggro while you had 901...next spell he casts he draws aggro. Yet I spam taunts and then take a break for HOs and usually don't lose aggro. I must have some built up hate. Where did it come from if taunt isn't an aggro generator? Not from my pathetic blue one-hander (upgraded to orange recently).