You must Unlearn What you have Learned.

Discussion in 'Ranger' started by ARCHIVED-ChaosUndivided, Feb 28, 2006.

  1. ARCHIVED-ChaosUndivided Guest

    If your referring to me, I am a level 67 Ranger, Have been playing since launch over 200 Days played, was the 1st level 50 on my server, 1st level 60 Scout Period Worldwide, and I am in one of the top raiding guilds worldwide.
    Do I need more credentials to post? Or is that enough.
  2. ARCHIVED-Dark_Moons_Rising Guest

    :smileysurprised:
    You mean i been doing it wrong from the start,, since feb 05??? Im a ranger, my main job it to take down the mob, period, the style dont matter,, the damage does.
    I have always used both melee and ranged when solo,, or when in grps,, always made sense to me to do so. Trick is,, find a tank that knows how to turn the mob, away from the party ,then everything is fair game, tonight,, im up in kos kicking tail on yellow conned solo mobs and white conned mobs,, open up with a heavy hitter ranged ca, then melee and use what we have available.
    Do i like it,, no, but hey,, IM A RANGER, ill get over it and adapt
    Ledoakain MIstrunner
    56 RANGER
    Butcherblock
  3. ARCHIVED-Mirdo Guest

    Hi Khalan,
    Thanks for the feedback on your experiences. I just have a couple of questions I wonder if you wouldn't mind answering please?
    In groups, how is your DPS comparing to other, similarly equipped, T1 classes now? Are you on par for a series of fast fights or is your damage a little patchy?
    The reason I ask is that i'm finding I can get 300-400 DPS melee/mele CA now (mostly A1) and up to 600 when big hitting bow skills are up (mostly A3). Over a long series of fights this puts my DPS at around the 400 - 450 mark.
    how is your DPS taken over a series of fights?
    Finally, I just noticed you moved to Najena (yeah I'm slow) - welcome :p
    Mirdo.
  4. ARCHIVED-TwistedFaith Guest


    Wow no offence but what kind of player are you? I always assumed that everyone used all their skills all the time.

    As for relearning the class, I say screw that. I know how to play my class, i'm not some leet little kid who rolled a ranger after LU13.

    I'm trying my best to squeeze as much DPS as possible out of my character and I am still getting out dps'd by t2 and even some t3 classes.

    Check out our lvl 60-70 skills, this gap between rangers and other class is going to be HUGE at 70. Wizzy's ice nova hits for 6k+, our lvl 70 triple shot upgrade will hit for a max of 2k IF everyone single shot lands.
  5. ARCHIVED-Mirdo Guest

    HI valleyboy,

    Well, tbh, before #20 it was very easy to sustain excellent DPS from ranged without ever having to close to melee in group or raids. The only reason I ever got close to the mobs presonally was to drop in the short range debuffs or a stun if healers neeed a second or two to catch up with mob damage on multi pulls.

    In our guild groups my pattern was pretty much always: Stream mob1 til dead, mob 2 all other Ranged skills - rinse repeat. I could put out enough damage that I never actually had to use melee skills for great DPS. Sure I could have increased my output more by staying in the sweet spot, longshank and bladed(shrouded?) strike. But, with mobs dropping in 20 seconds I just got lazy and didn't bother to add the extra DPS (I would just use a lower damaging bow are and rely on procs to increase it's damage).

    I can easily understand that a lot of Rangers didn't use our melee CA's in groups or raids given how much damage our proc's were generating.

    I'm not saying that was the best or only way play - itobviously isn't but I'm willing to bet that, after #13, many Rangers played exactly as Khalan described.

    Mirdo.
  6. ARCHIVED-Zabumtik Guest

    It's refreshing to see posts like this.
    And to those that say Wizards don't move around to do damage. You're wrong. Wizards do move around quite a bit to do damage. Much of the time when we move we're moving to stand right on top of the main tank! Gotta love using forge of ro and point blank area of effect spells to ATTEMPT to keep up with ranger damage pre-lu20! :) Most normal xp groups have me jumping in and out of melee range VERY often. Rarely do I find my Wizard just kicking back and having a hay day at range. In solo encounters with solo mobs, I'm often mixing it up both at range and in melee. It's just that my Wizard's melee attack is in the form of a damage shield instead of a CA. :)
    Oh and you want whiney mages? Imagine if, no matter what sort of arrow or weapon you used, you could only do 2/3 or less of your potential damage. Yeah, that would be Wizards against fire or ice immune mobs. Wizards don't get the luxury of swapping out weapons to do damage against resistant or immune mobs. That big ice comet or big fire-based spell doesn't seem so great now does it?

    Message Edited by Zabumtik on 03-01-200603:58 AM
  7. ARCHIVED-Mirdo Guest

    Zabumtik,
    Obviously my post relates to my experience and gear level only. It might be that app IV and adept 1 geared Rangers were using their entire repetoire of skill for damage output before #20 to maximise output. They certainly wouldn't have been putting out the much quoted figure of 1500 dps on a consistant basis.
    I was mainly adept 3 / legendary / low T6 fabled gear. This would place my damage (assuming an equally valid method of CA execution as the next Ranger) in the what? Above average zone? Against giants and cyclops it certainly meant I could slack and do nothing but Ranged damage and still remain effective. Using my slack technique I would parse between 800 and 1000 DPS most fights using non-legendary poison (^^^ giants and cyclops lasting 20s on average).
    I have no data but I would assume that the extra damage from the shield and chest would add considerably to DPS output of a raid geared Ranger pre #20 and those items combined with master spells probably account for the 1500 dps figure that gets bandied about.
    I wouldn't mind seeing some data on how those 2 items boosted our DPS for curiositys sake :)
    Mirdo.
  8. ARCHIVED-ChaosUndivided Guest

    Pre Lu20, I could get 1400-1700 Raid DPS Easily, with not a single close range melee attack on my hotbar. There was no point to melee at all for me as a ranger, risk ae's, splash damage etc. Many Rangers got used to this type of game play. Fortunately for me, I have been playing since launch so rather than crying that I'm helpless and making ridiculous assertions that priests out dps me, I have reverted to my Pre Lu13 Playing style and making the most of my situation.
    You WILL need to relearn how to play your class.
    I don't mean you, I mean rangers in general, too many people have become lazy and complacent and expect the same tactics to apply today. They don't.
    Do we need a DPS Boost? Absolutely, but not to the extent some would make it seem. People are crying that the sky is falling, I can still Parse near top dps per fight in groups but now instead of using half my skills, I need to use all of them.
    Many rangers are still trying to play with PreLU20 Tactics, it simply will not work.
  9. ARCHIVED-TaleraRis Guest

    We DO need a DPS boost, however. Even utilizing all our skills, we're not where we're supposed to be. Although you're right. It doesn't need to be nearly as much as some are making it out to be. And I think the problem does come down to tactics. I've been using melee/ranged mixture since I made Gwyn back in May of 2005. LU13 didn't make me change my tactics any, since to be effective soloing without resorting to having lots of poisons and procs, those tactics were necessary. But I can see where some rangers would have gotten used to just using ranged attacks. It is going to require relearning, if rangers have forgotten about those skills and where and when to use them.
  10. ARCHIVED-TwistedFaith Guest


    The problem with posts like this is SoE and Blackguard will simply start quoting this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and leave the class with no changes.

    I still firmly believe the lack of pure DPS through our CA's will become a huge problem as we and the other dps classes level.

    Wait till you see a lvl 70 wizzy throwing out ice nova for 6/7k a pop whilst we are trying to hit things with the lvl 70 triple shot which is WAY lower damage.

    Relying on procs and poisons is complete BS, SoE changed the system so we dont proc much anymore, it's aboiut time they beefed up our CA's to reflect this.
  11. ARCHIVED-TaleraRis Guest

    Posts like what? We do need a DPS boost. We don't need to be the Gods of DPS again.
    And if you'd paid attention to any of my other posts, you would see I say the same thing as you in regards to CAs. I dislike having to suck on the teat of using poisons just to get by. They should be a bonus. Our base DPS needs to be raised, and it doesn't need to be raised by mucking with our melee CAs. Our ranged CAs just plain need to do more power than they do right now.
    I will restate, however. We do NOT need to be the Gods of DPS. We DO need a DPS boost from our core abilities.
    Message Edited by TaleraRis on 03-01-200605:55 PM
  12. ARCHIVED-tweety1972 Guest

    QFE
    (this is the kind of post I can agree with)
  13. ARCHIVED-subaridu Guest

    With the low proc-rate i use now poisons with high Dot. Even T6-Poisons have dots arround 280 points all 6 sec. Imo it helped to keep the dps up.

    Greetings
    suba
  14. ARCHIVED-Dirtgirl Guest

    I have ALWAYS used ALL of my CAs in every fight and raid Ive been in. I have always made it a point to allow one or two auto range attacks between each ranged CA.
    I wrote a guide on my guild web page on how to joust raid mobs with a nasty AoE and still max your DPS.
    Now, the only time I see numbers even anywhere close to pre LU20 average is when I use Torment of Rijaki and auto-melee with my 10 sec buff that increases haste by like 75% and DPS by 97% (i might have them backwards). It is not right that I only get my best DPS for 10 seconds every what, 3 minutes? 5?
    I am however learning a whole new aproach to my class, and I do like a few of the new AA skills. But we are still far behind as T1 DPS and / or any sort of utility....
  15. ARCHIVED-King Leoric Guest

    Ya, but unfortunatley all this isn't the way it's supposed to be and who knows, they may end up changing it so once again our bow CA's are useful once again. But if I wanted to melee more often than not I would have rolled an assassin, not a ranger. But as it is, I like using a bow, so I suggest sony make a class that is pretty much bow only. Heh, ya was gone a while as well. was banned a 2nd time somehow, with no explantaion as to why. I think it might have been cuz I made a post saying I corrected a Mods spelling, but thats not against forum rules. /sigh
    Leoric
    Level 60 (****) ranger
  16. ARCHIVED-dbmoreland Guest

    Focus Fire is a 10 sec buff that increases haste by 63% and DPS by 72% (at Adept 3) and is recastable every 1.5 minutes. I use it every time I pull with Stealthy Fire (same recast times). Brutal Instinct increases DPS by another 65% (at Adept 3) for 36 seconds and is recastable every 5 minutes. So yes absolute best DPS is generated for only 10 seconds every 5 minutes by using both of these together. Yes they do stack.

    Hope this helps,
  17. ARCHIVED-ChaosUndivided Guest

    Except that theres a 100% Haste and DPS cap, so your wasting a lot, Master 1 Killing Instinct is a 97% DPS boost.
  18. ARCHIVED-Carnagh Guest

    I thought that cap was now around 140 with KoS... I could be wrong.
  19. ARCHIVED-dbmoreland Guest

    mmm foolish question then, why does it display a value greater than 100% in your personal information window?? Is it just teasing me?? How hard would it be to display the actual value and if capped say so??
  20. ARCHIVED-Carnagh Guest

    There's a thread in I think the Swashbuckler forum where a couple of people are talking about displayed values over 100%... I may have got the wrong end of the stick though.