You must Unlearn What you have Learned.

I have to chime in on the using melee is bogus bandwagon here. This is my reasoning.
Compared to Wizzards. Let's see, they stand there. They face away from the mob (or to the side or laying on their back, or standing on their head) and as long as they get a LOS and can target off the MT they can cast away. Oh, and they don't need to buy poisons to maintain their DPS either. Hmmmmm.
Compared to Assassins. They do have to move, I'll give you that, but not nearly as much distance, a move to get behind the mob at the start of combat and their good unless the MT loses agro.
On the other hand to maintain our DPS we have to get behind or flank the mob (Culling, Longblade) be facing the mob (Dire Blade), AND move back and forth in and out of melee range. I mean I can find a "sweet spot" where I can use all ranged CAs but SoA and all Melee CAs BUT my melee AA does not seem to hit.
What I find sad is this. I can parse almost as much DMG just using my melee arts and melee AA as I can doing all the moving about and firing off CAs. Unless I have sniper's up it takes serious work to get DPS. Meanwhile the wizzie next to me is sitting there just clicking buttons and I'm the one shelling out coin for poison.
/frustrated

I can't help it, but as a ranger i feel strange to deal more dps in melee than with ranged attacks. Before LU20 i often used melee styles in group, when recharging the ranged spells and since lu20 i barely use my ironwood-longbow. For groupplay we have two nice supporting debuffs and a cloaked attack, that quickly recharges, ok. I can melee, that is not the problem, but why should i? I'm a ranger, not half a brawler or an apprentice assassin.

Imo we play a class, that never was realy fitted for EQ2, why else there is no prismatic bow available or such few fabled bows to get? After lu20 i feel like before lu13: useless. Why? Because everywhere we are just 2nd choice. We are far behind ranged dd's and in melee we are beaten by any other scout- or tank-class. Our speedbuff is the lowest available and useless since everyone got a flying carpet. We are the only class with no usefull groupbuffs or -debuffs.

So it is nice to know how to make the best out of this sad situation, but it ist not, why i liked to play a ranger.

thats funny. I really enjoy ranger class because i HAVE to be active and move when in combat to get the ebst results. Its more immersive and fun than just sitting back hitting few icons on my hotbar repeatedly as i did when playing my inquisitor.

You miss understand. I'm not saying to take that aspect away, I'm saying give us a boost in DPS because we have to work hard at it. Don't make it so that we have to work hard to be on par with the Wizzard that just stands there. Make it so that if we choose to work hard (and accept the inherent risk of pulling adds etc) then give us more DPS. I like to move around in combat myself. I like rangers because they're an active class, I just think we should get a boost for it.

I know there is a sig or two that goes


Have you slapped your wizzy today?

Perhaps we can add

Have you slapped your wizzy and whining ranger today?


There has been far too much whining and far too little constructive criticism on this board for a budding ranger to get any usefull information from here. We got whapped in to a coma and must relearn some things, oh well. This will happen to others as well. If someone wants to use half the arts given, they should do half the dps. Besides, the rip line puts you in to melee attack anyways. Better to not waste the time you switched while your bow CA's are refreshing using some other CA's with the possibiliy of a poison proc on them as well. Use everything you are given, that is supposed to be a rangers motto.

We will prevail no matter what the odds, we will adapt and conquer (or die alot trying). And I will look up to any ranger that is willing to adapt and share the wisdom he or she has learned.

I think you are misunderstanding what we are saying. Every Ranger I know of, (myself included), does use a mix of Ranged CA's and Melee CA's. I always have.
Now, with the preponderance of fighting done in melee, we must fight lower conned MOBs than previously; much lower.
Personally, I was never able to take out epics that were not grey to me by 12 or so levels, and even then it was often 'iffy'.
My Ranger is level 42. He solos 90% of the time. He wears 'Treasured' gear, has Adept-1 CA's, uses makeshift foraged arrows, cannot afford 'Legendary' poisons, and usually cannot afford to buy three poisons, (so no 'Stun' poisons, because they use up too fast and are too expensive--and rare-- to use against 'Green Cons', which is what I find myself mostly fighting --now).
Can I still fight?
Yes, but now I must melee ^ arrow 'Green Cons' which are 6-7 levels below me, and still loose 60% of my health doing it.
With no CA's I can use on the move, when I get ambushed by a 'Blue' or 'White' Roekilik Assassin, I am down to 20% - 40%. If it is 'Orange' I will die unless I run.
Kiting is only possible in certain, limited, areas against certain mobs. Sure I can Ensnare, and run back a bit, (IF there is some place to run back to), and let go a fast CA like Flaming Arrow, and it helps (a bit); but overall, kiting is not a realistic option 60% of the time.
I can fight 'Blue Con' and 'Even Con' (no arrows) mobs, but take 60% damage against 'Whites'. It can be done, I still advance, I don't die too often, but;
My rate of advancement is sooooo slow now. I must find just the 'right' area to hunt in, and I dare not take on anything too tough (read that to mean anything over a 'Green Con') in an enclosed or crowded environment.
I am a casual player. I have played since launch, and yet I am only 42nd level. I don't just sit there and just 'mash buttons', and power my way through the levels. My complaints have nothing at all to do with DPS, or whether Rangers are T-1 or T-2. My complaint is that now, in my 2 hour play session, I am advancing so slowly, that it is hardly worth the effort any longer.
I have been hung out to dry by a design team that looked only at one type of Ranger and player, and did not bother to look at ALL Rangers and players, and that betrayed my trust when they promised there would be no class 'leveling' to accomodate PvP!

Look guys I am fustrated and today was just the push me over the edge day. I too have always done a combo of bow and melee, that has never been a question for me. But I feel that my bow is my primary means of fighting and anything that takes my bow away from me is a bad thing. I just love my bow and like I have said before the melee weapons are for show and if I have to sling the bow and whip the swords out something has gone terribly wrong. I apalogize now I am just fustrated and venting like many of you are. To me thats healthy to vent and if we cant vent here to our own brothers who can we vent to?

I am sorry for the missunderstanding, there is just a bit too much whinning around here so i got carried away and didnt read properly.

We can agree on this. Rangers pay for their DPS and therefore it should be worth it - be it arrows or poisons (at least poisons now last much longer than they used to).

getting boost just for moving around is already present. Hidden shot, backshot and the positional and stealth melee skills do offer high damage compared to "passive" skills. Is the dmg high enough? I dont know. I didnt experience the uber damage of high level rangers. i did not solo heroics with my ranger. I may not know what i am missing. I am only lvl 27 now so i do not know how easy or hard it is to play solo at lvl 30+ or how rewarding it is. At my level and still limited knowledge of my class i am still having a blast. Not as big as when i killed mobs in two secconds but that was unreal. and getting reward for no risk is just lame.

Here is the thing ^^^ up heroics ok so we could at one time solo them, but lets be honest here I may have done it just to see that I could. Was this my bread and butter? No I grouped and had lots of fun grouping to me I felt like the hero in groups. I was the guy that turned the tide of battle, swooping in like superman and oh my god the sniper shot refreshed hang on guys no evac we can win this one. And yeah the feeling that you turned the tide and was able to help a group go hit some things they might not consider made me feel good.

Jay you get the reclaimed arrow skill to summon T7 arrows at 62. Technically the bad range really starts in the 40's. You have to wait tell your 48 before you can summon tier appropriate arrows and then you out grow them 2 levels later. Then you have to go an entire tier summoning subpar arrows.
As I've posted in other threads I've learned how to adjust and maximize my dps in groups under the new system. I'm not happy with the number of ranged attacks that miss/block/parry vs melee attacks but that's another issue. I'm more upset with how bad they messed with my solo play. Taking away the debilitating line and screwing up thorny trap is what really pisses me off. If they reversed out these additional unannounced stealth nerf's I'd be a much happier ranger and wouldn't [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] at the dev's so much.
FIX MY DAMM TRAP
I'm tired of mobs standing next to it just laughing at me.

We do get a boost to our own DPS, but I have yet to see all that work put me over the top of a conjy + DPS pet or a wizzard is all. Unless, of course, snipers is up and then I can usually get some seriously nice DPS. I guess my major issue is that I dont want Predators (yes I include Assassin's in this statement because I believe (perhaps wrongly) that they have 0 grp buffs also) to be 'just another T1 DPS class'. Wizzies have 2 very nice buffs to bring to grps. Warlocks also have some nice grp buffs. We get a run speed which becomes pointless at the high end when people get horses, druids get SoW, etc. Oh well.

62??? I'm 62!!!! I need to find this CA ASAP

Believe me xentar, i was about lvl 40 when the "relief" given by lu13 was brought to us. And it was no fun at all after getting 30, dealing with green or blue mobs in the enchanted lands running all the time backwards and shooting arrows at them, because i got nearly killed by them if they got in combat range with more than 50% health left. Because if you reach lvl30 the cc-spells and -weapons (which you can use in soloing) will do unproportial less damage regarding to the augmenting health-pool of opponents in your level. The usable melee-dam seems not to progress in the same way as your foes does.

I like closing in also in group or to finish of a solo mob with my swords, or using cheap shot and the trap. But a realy challanging fight should not include an encaunter with a green or even blue mob 2 level bellow you.

Last I checked also, the lvl on the arrows from Reclaimed were bugged (the read Level 50 not Level 60). I /bugged it but others should to.

While I have been using ranged and melee all my rangery career, I want to use my bow more. I didn't roll an assassin. I rolled a ranger, and one picture associated with the ranger thanks to fantasy and D&D is using a bow. We should have melee skills, but they should only be necessary to mop up what gets to us, not finish kililng the half-dead or 3/4 dead mob when it arrives.

Wow. You guys are soooo right. I shouldnt be pissed off that a Berserker is outDPSing me in a group. Its all my fault that I cannot play a character that I started on day 1. Yep. Its all me and my "whining" about the changes is so not needed. Thanks for peeing on my neck and telling me its raining.

Man I never would have thought about mixing melee arts in as well in an attempt to up my DPS. Wow, thanks, no really. Thanks. I feel so much better now that I am gonna go renew for a 2 year subscription!

After LU13 I stood out at max bow range and just unloaded on things, happy in the knowledge that I could kill it before it got to me, or I could drop agro and let it go back to the tank, then kill it. A week ago that all went away. I find myself back in the Pre-LU13 world. I'm looking for the "sweet spot" again in fights which seems to be the 5M mark from mobs. I can fire all of my bow CA's off, except Stream (1 step back activates it) and I'm still in range for PBS and all of my melee CA's. Yes, it sucks watching Triple Arrow throw up about 1500 damage total when I'm use to 3-4k from it, but it's nice using Dire Blade again and watching it throw up 2k hits, quite often. It also gives us a reason to use Forester's noose in groups without wizards. Debuff the fire resists of the mob then hit it with Emberstrike for higher damage. Am I crazy about having to be that close to mobs? Nope. Have I been hit with more AE's in the past week than I have in the last 7 months, you betcha. All I need to do now though is fine tune my approach on things, move Brutal Instinct, Focus Fire & the haste buff (Forget the name right now) up to more easily accesible slots on my hotbars and find out which poison works best for damage for us now and I should start seeing some better numbers scrolling off.

A tip for those folks who don't want anything to do with melee auto-attack. Longblade -> Dire Blade -> Snaring shot. That will get 2 big backstabs in then put you right back at firing off your bow for your ranged autoattack and better crit chances. Haste is now a very important thing for Rangers.

Oh, and for those who don't have it, the Ap2's of our skills are sold in Eldarr Grove, up in the tree.

As a 27 Ranger I'm used to using melee arts as much as ranged because right now I'm about 50/50. I find I like it. I've got a warlock and my ranger is much more active and fun since I can't just root/nuke/nuke rinse and repeat. If I want to just stand there and kill mobs I play the warlock. Casters can only wear clothe and so they need a root to keep mobs at a distance. Since we can wear chain we're not quite as squishable as they are. I was looking forward to being able to kill mobs at range with my bow the way casters can with spells but I guess that's not meant to be. With these new changes I'm glad I never had the ability to do that so I don't have to unlearn it. If this is the new(est) vision of what a ranger is (an even mix of melee and ranged combat) then so be it...but I think there are a few changes that need to be made.
1. If SOE doesn't want us to depend on procs then our combats arts need a damage upgrade.
2. Our ranged arts would be reliable again (or at least moreso than they are now) if they weren't parried half the time. This needs to be looked at.
3. If we're going to be spending half our time in melee then those arts need to be looked at. Some of the lower end arts could use a boost. Also we could use 1 melee art that has a stun at the end so we aren't constantly waiting for cheapshot to refresh so we can use our positional melee attacks. It's either that or remove the positional requirement from some of those melee arts. Personally I think the extra stun would be more useful.

These posts are ridiculous. TRYYYYY doing both. Then talk to me.
The problem the the moment is that we have double the ranged CA's with well over double the dmg potential of our close combat attacks. Close combat melee CA's parse more than ranged.
I am a 62 ranger. I do everything within my power to kill the mob, and watch people that are supposed teir 2 and 3 dps classes take it easy and out dmg me.
I have a proposition.... EVERYONE
if your goin to make a post, and want people to pay attention, put down the level and classes of the toons you play. I for one am starting right now to skip any post that doesnt have this. Listening to a 50 warlock tell me about how Aragorn uses a sword makes me wanna choke myself with my mouse cord.
I know my class better than you. I know what the problems were prepatch, and post patch. Every ranger posting on these pages knows it too. WE are ALLLLL saying the same thing... how can people still be so ignorant to this? Do they really think that there was some sort of personality test on day one, and all the whiney [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es were forced to roll rangers?
get a friggin clue people. I dont go to your work and to slap the dik from your mouth....
Stylee Mc'Cutta 62 ranger Nek
killapreist (wrong sp intended) 56 templar
Hunney 41 swashy

Message Edited by Steezity on 02-28-200605:52 PM
Message Edited by Steezity on 02-28-200605:53 PM

Of course not. All those people were forced to make wizards. Geez I thought everyone new that :smileytongue: