XX group LF Scout DPS

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by ARCHIVED-valious, Oct 26, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-valious Guest

    what's with this new thing going around, groups are only lf scout dps??
  2. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Deumos@Najena wrote:
    Necros suck.. you din't get the memo?
  3. ARCHIVED-Cica Guest

    What he said .... all true :(
  4. ARCHIVED-Prrasha Guest

    It means one of three things, in my experience:
    1% likely: "Our group already has a dirge, inquisitor, and (3 other melee-buff classes), so we'd rather have some DPS that we can buff."
    9% likely: "We don't know how to tell a platfarming ninja-looter from anyone else, but we know they're all wizards!"
    90% likely: "I'm a mage putting together a group, and I don't want competition for the [Robe of Ubah]."
  5. ARCHIVED-valious Guest

    Prrasha wrote:
    ya hopefully :p

    and to the other guy, i'm saying the group in general is saying in level chat. lf scout dps
  6. ARCHIVED-TizZle Guest

    Scout DPS > Necro DPS , really only time to consider a necro is if a troub is in the group, even then you'd run enchanter/sorcerer for the mages. SOE needs to fix necro dps or utility. There's utility classes parsing 7-8k DPS and higher(in raids)... I've seen a PR parse where a necro got around that figure.. but guess what he doesn't have near the utility of enchanters/bards pushing those numbers also..
  7. ARCHIVED-Azekah1 Guest

    Prrasha wrote:
    You forgot a percentage:
    All of the idiots who think that having an extra scout vs a mage is really going to make that much of a difference in group content.
    The truth is, I'd rather have a well played necro than EQII player number 12494 that decided to roll a swashbucker cuz he heard they were kewl but has no idea what hes doing...
  8. ARCHIVED-Mogzilla Guest

    I will make a comment on this since I make a daily RE2 group, which is the hardest instance in the game.
    I am a bruiser, and yes if I dont make my own group my class would not go very often as most would want a plate tank.
    Here is how I build my groups.
    healer
    healer
    enchanter
    myself
    That leaves two slots for dps and utility.
    I generaly want at least one good aoe dps for slamhammer.
    Necro is pretty much at the bottom of my list because every other class left either offers more utility, dps or both.
    For the next two slots I generally rate them like this in order of best to worse
    bard ( dirge then troub)
    swash
    assassin
    warlock (aoe dps)
    conj (aoe dps)
    wizard
    brig
    ranger
    necro
    My suggestion to necros is to start your own groups like I had to on my bruiser lol.
    Now on easy stuff like VOES, COA, whatever I dont care I just grab a healer and whatever.
  9. ARCHIVED-Xil Guest

    Mogzilla wrote:
    Sorry man but this is pretty silly...
    Wizard, Warlock, Ranger, Brigand would all destroy you on the hate list and kill your healers constantly.
    Bard is pretty much required for RE2 unless you have outstanding raid gear and at that point it's all mute anyway...
    Swash would help you hold agro and give you moderate DPS, that's about it.
    Assassin would tank for you unless you can tank it in offensive which would once again require outstanding gear or outstanding healers...
    Necro on the other hand can push 3-5k consistantly depending on which bard you have, without any agro issues (that's assuming you know how to group with a necro that knows how to play) and can easily push 6k to 9k on every named once again without pulling agro to the healers and killing them.
    And that's not even mentioning the ooze pet which turns the burst damage from Slamhammer and the Shaman into a gental popcorn fart...
    And seriously as a bruiser... why would you EVER want a brigand, ranger, or warlock in a group you are tanking? Every single one of them can and will tear agro off you constantly. And in RE2 agro control is the tank's NUMBER 1 priority because the double and tripple attack frontal cones will destroy your healers or at the very least eat the wards that are keepin yer squishy tank @%$ alive...

    Oh and FYI a Necro can more than handle the Hammers and maintain between 6k and 10k DPS doing it as well as lock down all the adds on the shaman and kill them by his/her self at range while you try to survive the 20 to 30k spikes from the shaman....(which also by the way are cut in half when the necro pulls out the ooze pet)
    So great move not grouping with necro's... but some of us like to finish RE2 in a timely manner without the massive repair bill. =P
  10. ARCHIVED-Mogzilla Guest

    Xil wrote:
  11. ARCHIVED-Mogzilla Guest

    Oh yeah there are places where I will take a necro over other classes, expecially open dungeons, like Chardok or Seb.
    Nice to have a necro fd and rez grp in case of a wipe and not have go all the way back.
    Sometimes with pick up groups its good to have that, as you dont know who will wipe your group due to not paying attention.
  12. ARCHIVED-Xil Guest

    "Everything is better with Necro"
  13. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Xil wrote:
    are you smoking crack? did you just say you can do 10 k dps and "lock down" shaman's(epic mob in RE) adds?
    did you konw that the ooze crawler is resisted for most of the encounter?

    look, i understand you want to say nice things about necros, but some of the things you said on this post are highly unlikely to happen and near being flat out lies. please keep in mind this is a public foroum and saying such things makes you look silly. seriously there is so much bad information on your post i won't even bother to point it all out.
  14. ARCHIVED-Xil Guest

    6-10k dps on slamhammer bro.. Seen a few Necro's doing 12k or so on this encounter but they have mythical and VP gear. The AE damage adds up in a hurry.
    The ooze curse very rarely comes off a mob most of the resists happen during the 10 second duration... The curse procs constantly so while you probably seen lots of resists they normally happen while the curse is already up. I've really never seen it fall off a mob I've put it on for more than a few seconds.
    And my regular DPS mark on the Shaman is about 4k if I'm killing the adds. 5 to 6k if I'm focused on the shaman and don't need to use the ooze pet. The group wide plays a part in how high it can spike but this is over an average of 5 minutes of constant DPS.
    And no I don't have my mythical or any VP gear.
  15. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Xil wrote:
    heh.. "locking down adds" is something necros don't do.
    your post was unrealistic expectations of the class is all. maybe i suck.. feel free to post some RE zonewide parses showing this insane dmg you do. :)
  16. ARCHIVED-Xil Guest

    And why not? You only need to keep Stabbie and Foesmasher rooted while you kill Usla and Bergo at range. It's really not that difficult with a root that's garunteed to last as long as you don't damage the mob.
    There is really nothing unrealistic about that post. In any fight lasting more than 30 seconds a Necro will out parse any other mage unless there are buffs on the other mage that the necro doesn't have. IE time compression, tandem, ect..
    If you aren't putting up the numbers you have one of 4 problems and probably a combination of all 4.
    1) You are not following a strict casting order (without it necro is worthless for DPS #1 problem with all necro players)
    2) You're gear is not beneficial to your DPS ( ie a healthy mix of +Damage, +Crits, high Int and STA/Health)
    3) You're spells are not upgraded (AD3 everything, and Master your DPS friendly spells)
    4) You're not grouping with a healer that knows how to heal you (without proper healing LB is a joke)
    Get those down and you'll be putting up scout numbers consistantly.
    And zonewides, no matter what people try to cram down your throat, are not an accurate representation of the DPS summoners do. There is no burst damage with this archetype so any and all fights lasting less than 30 seconds skew the zonewide. And in RE2 if the trash is taking you longer than 30 seconds per kill yer probably not going to see large numbers in any case because if you do open up the DPS you'll get agro and die.
    However when you remove the fights lasting less than 30 seconds your merged parse should look about like this:
    Necro || 5503.60
    Coercer || 5469.69
    Bard || 2364.92
    Tank || 2160.10
    Druid || 169.54
    Cleric || 152.74

    None of these players have mythicals and none of them have better than Teir 1-2 fabled. All but myself and the coercer really didn't have much better than instance fables and a couple random pieces from Teir 1. And yes this is an actual merged parse from RE2 about 2 weeks ago. And I did not include the massive 1^ AE pulls where it shows the coercer and I at over 10k.

    This is the full parse from slamhammer on that run:

    Slamhammer: (01:13) 1316981 | 18040.84 [Coercer-Master's Strike-9237]
    Necro 550970 | 7547.53
    Coercer 365284 | 5003.89
    Tank 232882 | 3190.16
    Bard 157674 | 2159.92
    Cleric 5597 | 76.67
    Druid 4574 | 62.66

  17. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Xil wrote:
    post like this lead to people thinking that sumoners are fine and don't need some tweeking, and they do.. showing a doctord parse to prove a point is.. well, pointless.
  18. ARCHIVED-Xil Guest

    1) Who needs a scout in RE2 all they do is eat wards...
    2) If you're at 60% crits and 900 spell mod and damage spell masterd you can put up quite a bit of DPS
    3) Lifeburn is our bread and butter so healing through it is important otherwise no reason to use it or even have it
    4) Accurate summoner DPS requires a bit of manipulation, they have "NO BURST DAMAGE" none notta zero
    And finally the problem with summoners is our DPS and Utility don't balance out with the rest of the DPS classes. All other classes bring something more than DPS and several of those classes bring even more DPS than we do. We can easily top the "Mage" parse if all things are equal. However, that's just the mage parse and all the other mages bring more to a group and raid than just their DPS.
    No class can out DPS the preditors atm because someone in the right place at SOE plays an assassin...(pisses me off all the time)
    But the thing with Summoner DPS is not that it isn't there. It's that doesn't stack up to what it should be. We have no Utility so we should be the absolute highest DPS on the raid. But we pretty much just break even with the other DPS classes. Even though they all have Utility to add on top of that.
    To fix Summoners they need an extreme hike in DPS or an extreme hike in Utility. But to say summoners can't DPS, especially Necro, is just a lack of experience on your part. We can and do it's just much more difficult than the other whack-a-mole DPS classes.
  19. ARCHIVED-Necrodeath79 Guest

    OK Xil, Im sorry but I have been playing my necro and only my necro since i started eq2, Ive lived through all our good times and all our bad times. For you to post this garbage does nothing but hurt the class.
    I would bet my account that I could group with you in your ho hum group and you wouldnt pull them numbers. pulling every encounter out of your parse less than 30 sec is BS. only parsing the named and having LB up for every named will do only 1 thing and thats get us passes up on a revamp....Most raid Trash dont even last 30 sec anymore, the game as a whole has gotten faster over the years, combat isnt as drawn out, & Every class is pulling down huge numbers now, Mobs dont stand a chance against a good DPS group.
    I have always loved the necro class but we are in dire need of a fix, please dont try to blow smoke up the @$$ of the other necro's or the devs, yes I can pull down what I would consider huge numbers at times, BUT it takes the help of like 4 people to do it and if even 1 misses there mark or dont pay attention my numbers will be and always will stay ho hum.
    The only sub class that needs as much attention during the raid to do there job is the tank, I dont wana tax my group as much as I do for so little in return.
    I would say Avg dps for a instance geared necro would be about 1.5-2k, but a coercer in instance gear can pull down avg ZW of 3.5-4k and scouts and bla bla bla .....we need a bump
    Pest
  20. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Xil wrote:
    well geared and skilled necro like my self can still do ok but the class needs a new role in raids.