@ Silzin No these are not the values I would want really just put them there to show something and each set up adds up to 100% so its showing balance. Now since we can have more than 100% in this game well the values would be more and would need to be set with whatever it is we have now. Yes they would need to gain some avoid, parry or rip when not using a shield but it still not be OP to go that way if that makes any sense. How ever with the Pally and SK they need to be diff so as you can see for a Pally they loose avoid parry an rip when they use a 2 hander but gain block and out right damage reduc. This was done in my example to show that it can be differant but still balanced. This would also kinda balance them against SK in the DPS department. This however is not really what the thread is about as it is about getting a real DW spec for Zerks. I am just trying to show some sort of balance with it. As for itemeization you are correct in that it is fubar atm and this would require more work on the Dev's part to make it work out but I think its what would need to happen to make it work out correctly to give Zerks a true DW spec. @Fail While this thread does not really talk about what to change in the AA trees to give Zerks a true DW spec ( other than the mention of a change to Reversal ) I think that we need to start here as the game did not come with AA trees origanly ( from what I understand ) . So a change like this would need to take place with out the AA's first then move into the AA trees after the basic ground work has been laid out. Then we would need to look at AA and figure out what will still work and what will not. Change the things that will not work anymore and go from there. So this thread is all about Zerks the mention of the other Plate tanks is simple if you are talking about changing one of them you need to discuss all of them in order to keep balance or we end up with what we have now one or two of them up way up there and the rest falling way behind.
Failathion@Nagafen wrote: So classes are not supposed to be balanced? Hmm lets see here 24 classes right.............. 24 Raid slots............ hmm balance is implied then. Granted an optimal Raid will not have all 24 classes as some classes are more desirable than others due to lack of balance also the fact that for 90% of the Raid encounters you do not need more than 2 tanks and most of those you can do with 1 tank if they are worth a damn. However each tank should be a viable option to use and for each tank to be a viable option thier needs to be some sort of balance it does not have to be perfect and each tank should do it in thier own way. No 1 class of tank should be way ahead of the others though like what happend in ROK or TSO. Again this thread is about getting us Zerks a viable DW spec and to do that some things are going to need to change to balance things with the other Plate tanks. Personaly I do not want to end up as a DW Plate scout because we got our DW spec but fell behind in other areas due to lack of balance. I also do not want to end up as the FOTM cause we got pushed ahead so far that the other tanks could not keep up. To get a proper DW spec we need balance or we will get it and either end up as a T2/T3 DPS that wears Plate and is not any good for tanking. Or we will end up with the rest of the Tanks crying for the nerf hammer.
Kimber@Nagafen wrote: Brawlers can dualweild, have 67% Hardmode Raid Avoidance, and have the best death save in the game, and they're mitigation is higher then a plate tanks with temp buffs, without them its only less then 1% difference. This game is not nore will ever be Balanced. Paladins are the second best tanks in the game, have almost permament adrenaline, and unlike brawler don't have to watch they're hate, they can pretty much press they're temps and go AFK and hold aggro, the rest is cake, but this does nothing to help they're avoidance. These are just examples of why your post fails, because you are trying to balance us all defensively/offensively when you barley know what any of our classes or spells do, I can tell, because otherwise you would not be making a post were our stats are so much alike. There will not be a dual wield tree in this expansion, especially in our old EOF tree. We simply need proper fixes to it.
Hmm I guess you just dont get it that to achieve balance you have to start someplace and raising this spell or that spell to make up the diff is not where it needs to start ( this is why the game is so out of balance to begine with ). It needs to start with the basics and go from there. Which is why and to use your words "" why your post fails "" only in your case its due to the fact that you cannot see the basics and you just want Zerks to be OP or FOTM. As for getting the DW spec this exp I know that will not happen. If this happens it will not happen anytime soon and I would rather the Dev's take the time to fix the game right than to throw this in and take that out raise this and lower that and we end up OP or even more broken ( cause that is what being OP is its a broken class ).
So I have been thinking more about this and wondering when we will get a Red Name to put up a comment other than to tell anouther poster to be nice. I am also working on trying to get some real % numbers for a Zerk instead of the made up ones I put up there. We all know that making it equal out to 100% is not correct since at 90 if you add up the Parry, Avoid, Block, Damage Reduc and Rip it goes well over 100%
Although i don't really know what the exact %'s need to be i do feel that we shouldn't have block if dual wielding. The way i'd like to see it is 1 handed weapons carry +parry chance or riposte chance for uncontested avoidance and 2handed weapons are the ones that carry +block. This way the zerks would gain in avoidance but at a cost of outright blocking an attack whilst dual wielding. The crusaders would then lose some of their uncontested avoidance on the 1 handers but have a better chance of blocking an attack when using 2 handers. In both circumstances the plate fighters should be at their most defensive, as Kimber has stated, whilst using their shields and 1 handers.
I have block in there and a value for it just because imo if we are DW all block that we have should go into Parry or Rip chance. However I am not sure how that would work cause it would need to go back into Block when we have a shield. So I was just keeping it there for now.
