Worried about future of EQ2

Think of EQII as the Coca-Cola company of MMORPG. It is so well know, that it doesn't need to have advertisments. I do not know anyone who plays PC games, that has not ever seen or heard of EQ or EQII. The facts are that they really do not need an advertisments.

RoStudios wrote:

Adverts are the least of EQ2's worries, what is far more important is that you cannot find EQ2 boxed on shop shelves.

Word of mouth is great, however a total lack of availability on shop shelves means you don't grab any casual shoppers. People either do not know the game exists or think that it is an 'old title' that has disappeared into obscurity (and on that point they are right).

If nothing else, can somebody in marketing ensure that the next all-in-one box is billed as a 'new release' and not an expansion (and convince the shops that this is the case). Because the only copy I have ever found in local shops was buried in a pile of '2 for £30' games.

Rise of Kunark did NOT appear on the 'New Releases' chart of the UK's biggest (by far) games retailer 'GAME'.

RoK is in the latest Games for Windows Magazine as well as 1up.com. It got very good reviews. Which is well deserved. As for advertising on TV...I can't recall any MMORPGs doing that other than WoW. When you have something like 9 million subscribers worldwide I guess you can afford to advertise a little. The great thing about EQ2 is the community which would NOT be as good if we had 9 million subscribers. I mean the best thing about WoW is everyone plays, that's also the worst thing. The EQ2 community/servers are much more mature and enjoyable. IMO

So much misinformation and skewed logic in this thread, it hurts my head.
Here are the facts.
1) EQ2 will continue for a long, long time. Meridian (the *real* first mmorpg) is still running and has something like 60 people online at its peak. It's not expensive to run a few servers. As long as thousands of people play, it'll be around. Bank on it.
2) New content will continue to come out for eq2 for a long, long time, just as it does for eq1. How much does it cost to pay a few game developers when you have hundreds of thousands of subscribers? Not much.
3) SoE is not trying to market EQ2 to new customers. And it's not because Sony owns 5 mmogs. Pepsi has a lot of different softdrinks, and they don't give up on advertising any of them if they think the marketing investment will earn them a good return. That's what it comes down to--investment versus return. SoE doesn't think EQ2 is going to attract enough new players to warrant the expense of marketing it hard. I think they're right. EQ2, like it or not, is a niche game. It capitalizes on EQ1 nostalgia, primarily. It also is a high quality product. But it's old, too. Most of the pre-existing mmog playerbase have already made up their minds about it.
4) Comparing Blizzard's marketing effort to Sony's is silly. EQ2 doesn't even bring in a tenth of the revenues WoW does. Think of it in terms of an overall per-game budget. An advertising spot on T.V. costs a tiny fraction of WoW's revenues. That same commercial could take 10% of EQ2's allocated budget (I pulled this number out of my nether-region, but you get the idea). What incentive does Sony have to risk that much money on an aging product that has never performed very well against its competition? Spending that much on marketing would be a lousy business decision.
5) WoW is, as others have said, a phenomenon. It has crazy momentum. Most people have never heard of EQ2; almost everyone under 35 has heard of WoW. The perception that "everybody's playing WoW" attracts new players by itself. Gamers feel obligated to check out WoW because they want to see what the buzz is about, and advertising only reinforces that. EQ2 has no such luxury. Any new players it gets, it has to get by starting from scratch, more or less. There's just no buzz on EQ2.
6) WoW and EQ2 are both high-quality products, at present. Unfortunately, WoW has been consistently high-quality, where EQ2 has had its problematic phases that have turned players off. Also, when you look at the newbie areas (commonlands, antonica, the newbie isle) the art is beautiful, but it lacks something. It doesn't have soul-doesn't feel alive. As the game progresses, the zones become more compelling. But by that time, a lot of people have made up their minds about EQ2 and moved on to WoW or some other product.
7)In summary: EQ2 will be around for a long time. It will never be hugely popular. But it isn't "dying," and won't be anytime in the near future.

In today's multi-channel TV market it would be nearly impossible to reach enough people to justify the cost. For example, I only watch HGTV, DIY, and the History Channel. My husband doesn't watch TV at all.
Many people here do watch some channels in common, but still, the diversity of this community makes it difficult to target the EQ2 market with any degree of cost effectiveness.

Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote:

100% agree with this the retail side of RoK in the uk was a shambles just as it was when EoF came out

Rashaak wrote:

Why do you keep posting this? No one is asking for adverts in order to satisfy curent subs. You dont understand ecinmoics at all or the SoE
business mode. They keep info about where money comes from or goes private any way so theres no way for you to know.


This game is a direct competior with WoW and I think could use some TV spots also. I will say however that the last time i was looking at SS of an upcoming game on GameSpot I got spamed with a big image of RoK. So its not like they are not adverting at all. Also Im sure SoE know more about advertising than any one here does so I will leave it to them.

It is NOT as if adverting for this game is going to take money away from development.

WoW benefits from something I've been long calling the "ipod effect." Ipods are THE mp3 player to some people. My mom calls all mp3 players ipods. Because that's all they've ever heard of, they assume ipods must be the best. While ipods certainly are fine products, they aren't the best for everybody. They're expensive for somebody that just wants something for the gym. I think they're sound quality is good, but I like most of Creative's players better. But nobody knows that. They've only heard of ipods. So they buy ipods.

The same thing is true of WoW, so WoW is popular, because it's popular. That sounds stupid, but I think it's somewhat true. It has almost unstoppable momentum at this point. It's pushed even further along by many of the WoW players trash talking any other mmo (Go look up an EQ or EQ2 video on YouTube. You've got about an 80% chance that someone from WoW is talking about how much EQ/EQ2 sucks). I'm guessing most of these players have never played another MMO, but they trash talk it anyway. WoW is certainly a great product, but isn't the best for everyone. Unfortunately, nobody knows that.

Anyway, EQ2 isn't going anywhere. Its player base seems healthy. It'll continue to be supported for years to come. I have no idea how many subs it has, but I think a lot of people look at WoWs 9 million and think their MMO must be in trouble if it only has 200,000. Try looking at it a different way....200,000 * 15 = 3 million dollars a month. Sure that's not all profit, but that's plenty of change to keep the game up and running. EQ hasn't been advertised or on shelves in forever and it's still around getting new content.

Frobus wrote:

And somehow, we've got a better game.

I don't say this much, but cheers to SoE.

Frobus wrote:

yeah its critical mass more or less.

Schmutzig@Nektulos wrote:

Yes but the other fact your missing to include is that although the marketing and popularity is there for WoW (Blizzard), people really are getting sick of playing WoW. They only play it for the lack of a better product. When I say better I mean a product that offers the same momentum and "addiction" that WoW currently offers. But make no mistake WoW will decline before it grows because the products are getting better around it. Developers are starting to realize the value in "borrowing" some of the concepts from WoW and implimenting it in their own. "Age of Conan" for example is going to be supporting just about every feature WoW does, and then some! Will it be as popular? Probably not. Will it grow and take a percentage of Blizzard's profits, definately!
Every new product that comes out will take a bite out of Blizzard's profits and player base. Bet on it. Know why? Because WoW takes too [I cannot control my vocabulary] long and has a really high grind. I personally left WoW to come play this, and this game is literally half the grind. 50% of my personal time has now been re-invested and I have "more" time off the PC to do real-life things. Wow consumes too much of that time and it takes you ages to build an "Epic" character. I mean honestly who wants to spend 10 years (real time) grinding rep, professions and raiding/PvP'ing to get the gear and status? I don't. I'm in my 30's and I have no desire to be a "WoW-addict" when I'm in my 50's. That's just nonsense to me.
EQ2 for an older product offers very well-designed graphics and visuals (still cutting edge, some of it) and a third of the WoW-Grind, which makes it a hell of alot more fun. It also offers alot of the other elements, like a thick lore and storyline. Excellent play-ability and a more realistic feel. With constant expansions I believe EQ2 will continue to grow. WoW is "toony" and with that high grind it's starting to lose subs. It may say 9 million, but a good percentage of the people going into that product are people checking it out due to the mass-marketing. It may not be at a rapid rate but small percentages of older "subs" are actually leaving WoW for other products. I did. Let's also look at this from another point of view, isn't "Sony" a bigger company than "Blizzard" ? I believe it is. So Sony will not have any problems growing any of it's products, financially speaking.

Banedon@Antonia Bayle wrote:

That's odd. Whenever I'm in the PC game section at my local Circuit City or Best Buy (in Philly), I always see copies of it.

Somethings you should consider as a gamer why EQII was troubling.

Answer: Warcraft 3 and Everquest 1.

Warcraft and starcraft were some of the most innovative game in the industry, and in some countries considered as a national television sport (See: Korea and China).

What did EQ 1 Bring?

It brought insane corpse runs, it brought hardcore grinds, it brought dysfunctional gaming (mana regen in 5 minutes at level 6 and go OOM in 5 nukes), having your class completely nerfed to due bad itemization (Hello Monks) it brought insane mob chasing you to the zone line and other things that casual, everyday gamer can only rate as "maocism".

Warcraft had a storyline of epic histories (pre-wow anyway), what did EQ bring? Friona the sex elf (So badly rated I see parents shaking heads when their child want a copy of EQ). Sure, WOW sold sex too, but at least they were smart enough to KEEP IT OFF THE FRONT COVER!

You can't believe how much mental energy it took me to buy a copy of ROK off the shelves, I had tell myself "you tried the pre-view, it don't look quite as bad, it look just like WoW and it could be fun?" I will give the game 30 days and see it works. Maybe I will keep it.

Yeah I think the big thing about the new expansion is it is mostly digital download, I went to a few gamestops and couldn't find it, first off I was thinking I could buy the expansion by itself, that wasn't the case it seemed to come only as an all in one pack with all the older stuff as well , which upon finally finding it at a bestbuy I didn't mind buying it because it was the same price as the expansion and I had lost my old dvd's being an old customer anyways... I overheard a gamestop manager telling a customer that if a game is online as a digital download there is a good chance that they won't stock it just for that reason, however that bestbuy did have alot of copies... as far as ad's and whatnot go, I just bought the latest issue of pcgamer, and I think I saw an ad in both there and gameinformer.. I really don't think EQ2 is going to go anywhere, there are a ton of mmo's that I'm sure alot of people have never heard of, that I know of that are still around, some are text based mud's and some have graphics, all of which charge the same price as todays mmo's. The worst thing I can foresee happening is that SOE would no longer make new content for the game, and well as far as the case for that, they just put out the new expansion so I don't think we really have anything to worry about right now...

First throw out the whole subscriber mind-set and view it this way....
EQ1 was extremely successful and was played HARD. For whatever reason, during the WoW incarnation, people were becoming very sick of EQ1 and what it offered its player base in regards to content and service. When EQ2 was released people had very little tolerance for EQ2 and naturally given the fact of WoW's momentum and reputation it took off. People were really ready for something new that didn't have a SoE sticker on it. Thus when people did give EQ2 a try there was no tolerance and it was left with the people who were willing to stick it out and WoW just wasn't "their" type of game.
You have to also understand WoW is extremely successful in the Asian market and responsible for a large chunk of their subscriber base. EQ2 given its history has done amazing considering its introduction and the status of its predecessor. Most of the die-hard EQ1 people have either moved on or have become MMO hoppers.
EQ2 is not dying and I would actually dare say it has received a lot of forgiveness and new players will trickle in for awhile. I believe the release of games like AoC and Warhammer will reveal how players will go for 2008 and early 2009. Players really are back in the intolerant attitude due to Vanguard and a few other smaller MMO's. If AoC and Warhammer flop pretty hard. You'll see a large chunk of the playerbase settle in WoW and EQ2 for quite some time. EQ2's and WoW's future will also have a lot to do with timing upon these new MMO releases. If EQ2 can deliver some great updates to finish up RoK and release another stellar expansion, you may even see more WoW converts if WoLK doesn't appease the masses.
Overall, I wouldn't worry about EQ2. It is as solid as it comes and regardless of subs, a server can only hold so many people.

Take care,
Muli

Schmutzig@Nektulos wrote:

Your number 3.I think that adding all the expansion's to 1 bundle is an attempt by SOE to atract new player's and old ones that have moved on.They want to grow the game.To me it's a major shift from there grab every penny they can from the customer approach.SOE's been bleeding customer's with.
There biggest strength is they have all these game's but folk's dont play them.Your one account should be open to all the game's.You can pretty much just play one game effectively.When Nerf's and unbalances get you down.You can play somethingn differnt for a while.That you probably wouldnt try and your customer never leaves.You never want customer's to hit cancel.Station Pass has failed.Get rid of it and make those extra games work for you.
Game review's are free and not to be on ever gamer website and mag you can get on is just foolish.Thats before the game comes out.
Your 5 and 6 point's hit the nail on the head.Though 7. nothing is forever.Long time in the game industry is short.EQ II is leaps and bounds better then it was on release.So attention needs to focus on bringing all this goodness into the light of day.

I'm new. I heard through the grapevine that I can solo and raid with equal enthusiasm so here I am, downloading the game from station.com. Mr. T and William Shatner will have to go on without me.

My neighboor own's 7 "Best Buys" between washington oregon and california. According to lisa the eq2 line of games basically dont sell period in the stores and she removed them from the shelves pretty much permenent. With of coarse of when a new expansion comes out. I think alot of people are buying online theses days. And as far as wow goes. WoW is a much easier game and people theses days are so stressed out that they want to log in and push a button and everything is a a gaurentee for them=) WoW is popular and will continue to out sell EQ2 do to the fact it is very easy to play and people theses days like that. Eq2 is doing just fine and ROK sold very well. There in my opinion is nothing to worry about i dont think. The reason you see more copies out there of WoW is becasue in the new age of MMO's 90% of the gamers out there are very casual and like to see things made easier then in the old days. EQ2 is a bit more balanced, while not as hardcore as EQ1 its in my opinion got a little for everyone.

I would prefer to buy in a store, not online, but in our Fry's store the game showed up at least a week later than it was available online - what current gamer will wait for so long to get an expansion?
I assume it was SOE's policy, because the price was the same everywhere and you need to pay a commission fee, storage and manufacturing costs, delivery costs, etc. Therefore for SOE it was more profitable to set a delay in delivering. IMO all games should be available everywhere at the time of announced issuance.

Second serious point against EQ2 is, as mentioned before, it is TOO old - technically. It runs on one core on my quad core extreme CPU, it still slows down in some places and frame rates in cities are lower (around 20 FPS) comparing to Crysis ... and I have scored 15k 3Dmark06 - way over recommended by Game-o-meter gaming PC. Still in EQ2 I have some slow downs - like while you fly in huge areas - the flight stops for a part of the second, the FPS drops, and then you continue - such slow downs can't be based on a performance of my PC. I had an old one with 3k score in 3Dmark06, and it runs with the same slow down problems as the new one with almost the same speed.
I have no such slow downs in any other game, including Crysis (the most demanding in PC resources) ... It is not my internet connection problem as well, I have a gaming router with priority of all packets to EQ2, and there are no slow downs with any other online games, I have tried several.

With ROK expansion I have lost an interest to the game (as many other players, as I can see around) - everything looks nice and shiny, but the game lost the rest of firstly represented in EQ1 and continued (I would say even improved somehow) in EQ2 spirit ... I have more fun playing other non-online games than leveling performing stupid quests in RoK.
It's time for me to try LotRO, or some other new online game. No doubts EQ2 will leave long, people invested too much in their chars, but it will never be as popular as before, as it was already said.
RoK sold well as many players expected to have a lot of fun, but how the next expansion will be sold - that is a question. I ain't paying for playing EQ2 anymore.