Will SF be like TSO?

Again, learn what you are talking about, before speaking. Otherwise your comments have no true meaning.
Since you seem unaware of how at least pvp works. I'll explain a small part ever so briefly.
Pvp gear requires MANY HOURS of pvp'ing, just to get 1 piece (pieces range from 125 tokens *old rok gear* to 2k tokens *new tso gear*)...125 a piece isn't so bad, if you're in to the zerg fest, you can probably get most of your old pvp gear in a week if u zerg it up...Now who's going to choose old pvp gear, vs new, when everyone and their brother is zerging it up for the new gear...which is 750 tokens or higher, per piece...Now...a new to 80, fully mc geared illy steps out in to the big bad world of t8 pvp..and faces lvl 80's who've been around for a month, two months, 6 months, a yr. etc...Raiders, and pvpers alike. That mc gear, isn't going to do squat. Not against toons who've been around long enough to obtain pvp or raid gear... So..dead illy. Dead illy earns no kills, updates no writs, gains no gear.
Now..again, tell me gear is not necessary. And I will tell you again, get a clue. join a pvp server and you will see just how needed gear is. Not only to solo, but to grp. Not only for pvp, but pve. It may not be as necessary, for the solo pve, but it is still necessary, and helpful. You may wish to struggle to solo. The rest of us do not.
I don't know one person in this game that does NOTHING but solo ALL THE TIME. And unless it's a full grp of new to 80 toons all in equal crap gear...they're not going to touch anyone in less than t2 gear at the very least. Nagafen server alone, you see "must have myth" "decently geared/spelled" "such and such aa" daily for grp'ing. Sadly many Ppl are paying for myth updates, suddenly thinking because they did they are uber now, and can expect anyone they run with in an instance to have the best possible gear, for the best possible dps, and heals, because heaven forbid a zone take more than 10-30 minutes.

MindFury wrote:

I have played some on the PvP server. Thus my comment about a solo PvPer. Dead. A lot. Especially in the high end zones. THAT has nothing to do with him having MC, legendary, etc gear and everything to do with the PvPing in groups being the norm. I play solo a lot, and I played almost nothing but solo on Venekor. I did not get to the high levels, but I played enough to see the trend and to know I was playing real risky even in what were mostly out of the way places because I was playing alone. I got rolled a few times by groups. That was the risk I took and it didn't matter one bit what gear I had on.
Do you need Legendary or high to do PvE solo content, even on a PvP server, no.
Do you need Legendary or higher to solo PvP on a PvP server, no, because having that gear won't matter to the outcome. A solo PvPer, especially in the high levels, is dead. A LOT.
The zones for SF will be a small area around Halas for < 20 and then 80 to 90 zones. So... which level ranges are you talking about for solo PvP needing Legendary or better that should be easily available in SF?

MindFury wrote:

Said illy can easily leech kills from the zerg if he is able to hide behind a tree, rock, or building, which shouldn't be rocket science. Dead illy does earn updates if his targets happen to die in the zerg.
Also if dead illy is smart he will go for his 100 ish token/piece TSO pvp set to earn enough crit mit/mitigation/HPs to survive, which will do him way more good than 1k ish tokens/piece jewelry.
You can get fully fabled by pvping in tier 8. It's not hard, just time consuming (and by far less than it used to).
Also surviving as a solo illy is more bound to not being at the wrong place at the wrong time, and picking your targets wisely, than gear, tbh.

enjoy your game.

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Hard to tell what this thread is about from the OP, which was "TSO stinks, if there "shards" in SF I don't want it." Everything else that's been discussed came later and is off-topic.
I was in more PUGs in the first few months of TSO than I had been in years. There was just suddenly so much that it was possible to do in a PUG as opposed to the same 3 instances in RoK or EoF. Some crazy groups too. The 3-Berserker group is still my favorite. My fear for SF is that PUGs will be for The Hole. Period. And like SoS a few expansions ago I'll want to gouge my eyes out rather than do it AGAIN. But tbh that would surprise me.
KP mobs were only "hard" in the beta. When exactly did they change them anyway? I don't actually believe they did change them after launch, just the KC mobs. I could be wrong - certainly wouldn't be the first time. I just never paid attention to it if they did since they were never outlandishly difficult before and it didn't happen (or at least wasn't listed) in any of the GUs.

Wow good job torpedoing this thread with a PvP red herring.

Jgok@Permafrost wrote:

Adding my voice to yours! Totally agree with your post and I'm hoping that the EQ2 devs continue to give us challenging heroic content with a line of progression.
Its the fact that EQ2 offers a challenging group game with progression that stopped me playing that other MMO, in which all the group content there was an easy mode mess (even if it was scripted you could so rapidly out gear it that too much became tank+Spank).

Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Sorry to resurrect a comment from five days ago, but I've heard this argument a bunch of times and I'd like to take this opportunity to (respectfully) refute it. Take a look at the new zones introduced in TSO and you'll see that very few of them are void creature-based:
Befallen: Cavern of the Afflicted: Ancient ruins setting filled with mummies and ghosts. A fantasy-themed mainstay. Names include two ghosts, an undead beast and a giant bug.
Befallen: Halls of the Forsaken: Ancient ruins again, with mummies, ghosts and gargoyles.
Befallen: Necrotic Asylum: Ancient ruins with mummies, ghosts, imps and evil alcolytes of Dread Exarch Mordek. No void beasts in sight...
Deep Forge: Lavastorm-based underground keep populated by Fire Giants. Pretty fantasy-ish, if you ask me.
Miragul's Phylactery: Scion of Ice: Magically created dungeon hewn directly into the ice in Everfrost. Populated by various types of magically infused creations including animated icicles (Chaotic Manipulation) and griffons (Ankef and Zaza).
Miragul's Phylactery: Anathema: Another dungeon (this time also containing crypts) created by magic carved into the ice, with eye creatures (which have been with us since Rivervale) and ghosts. There are void creatures in this expansion? Maybe in the next zone...
Miragul's Phylactery: The Crucible: ...Or maybe not. Another ice dungeon containing evil magic users.
Mystmyr Manor: A gothic manor populated by elvish vampires with the decor taken straight out of the Faydwer expansion, slightly improved so that it's not a complete ripoff of previous zones. Gothic undead zones seem pretty fantasy-ish to me. And look up there! A dragon!
Ravenscale Repository: More gothic undead. This time including T'lon the Powermonger, an undead monstrosity hovering over an ocean of blood.
Evernight Abby: When do we get to void creatures? I'm starting to miss them at this point. I'm ten zones in and I haven't encountered any yet.
Veksar: Sunken Theater: The Lakes (oceans?) surrounding Fens hide entrances to the secret ruins of a once-vast empire of amphibious creatures. Goblins abound. Also buried here: the undead remains of the dragon Garudon.
Emperor Atribe's Laboratory: The Fabled City of Kor-Sha: Explore deeper into the underwater remains of the great amphibian City of Kor-Sha. Filled with undead skeletal Atribeite Deathreavers, Destroyers and more.
Ruins of Guk: Halls of the Fallen: Ruins of the once-great kingdom of Guk, populated by evil frogloks and other nasty things.
Ruins of Guk: The Lower Corridors: More Guk ruins, no void beasts in sight. In addition to frogloks, there are ghouls and gargoyles and Ykreshan Overlords and magically animated severed hands. Got Fantasy?
Ruins of Guk: Ykresha's Outer Stronghold: Guk ruins again, no void stuff.
Najena's Hollow Tower: Lava-filled dungeon carved in the depths of Lavastorm. Filled with Magma creatures, giants, drakes, a big drakota, and one sneaky goblin.
So far, that's SIXTEEN zones that are 100% void-free. The overland zones are also void free unless you count void-touched creatures that are occasionally strewn about like void-touched troll pirates.
Really, if you want to fight void creatures you have to limit yourself to a very small number of zones--Anchor of Bazzul, Obelisk of Akhzul or Palace of Ferzhul. Or the raid zone Palace of the Ancient One.
I agree that the void zones don't "feel" like EQ2, but that's a VERY small portion of the expansion. Except for the fact that raiding requires going to PotAO, it's easy to avoid every void-themed area of the game and kill nothing but goblins, ghosts, ghouls, gargoyles, mummies, skeletons, vampires, and dragons.
EDIT: Holy cow, this post is huge. Sorry about that.

Shaydu@Everfrost wrote:

Wish I could find groups that could go to these places. But PUGs don't have a prayer in those zones. Thanks for the spoilers anyway.

Shaydu@Everfrost wrote:

ROFL. I liked that one.
I've read that complaint before, but I still don't get it. There has been void stuff in the game since day one, but it's never been central to the plot prior to this expansion and it's (well done, IMO) lead in. So I don't understand how people could be tired of it.

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

People don't go to EA because it has twice the trash necessary for a zone of this size.
If they gave out an Achievement for Tireless Battler or Patience of Marr for most tedious dungeon crawls, they'd be obtained by clearing EA and Nu'roga within a 24 hour period.

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Really? You can't find a group for these? PUG? Weird. Must be just you.
In the last seven days I have tanked PUG's in Mystmyr, Evernight, Guk: Halls, and Sunken Theatre. Yea, I joined the group by /1 80 SK LFG Shards. True pickup group style. I can't remember the last time I failed a zone, even pickup groups.
Wait, yes I do. A PUG I was in cleared Lower Corridors a few weeks ago, but didn't quite have the DPS to kill the King. Strangely, we still got Sense of Urgency in the zone since the King isn't actually the Urgency mob. We killed every other named in the zone, including the one who shadow steps.
Pickup groups. Gotta love em.
I mean, I'm actually even serious there. I do enjoy pickup groups, met some real nice people there. Not always the greatest players, but some nice people.
*shrug*

Getting back to the OP.

First SOE did say the sahrd system would continue. Whether its the same shards as TSO introduced or a new shard for new zones only they have not said yet. Why? I think its pretty obvious.
Was the shard grind tedious? Yepper but again people were previously complaining about the RNG being the only arbiter of getting god.great heroic loot. The Shard grind made it possible to avoid this for a lot of gear. Same amount of time to get the best armor for heroic instances BUT you are certain to get it in X number of runs. On my zerker I ran Maidens over 80 times and was never lucky enough to see the fabled shoulders drop. The only other option is to just make every named drop their exquiste chest and that is NOT going to happen. EQ and EQ2 were always about grinding. All the TSO thing did was make it so you were constantly calculating it in terms of "how many more shards do I need" so it was more in your face, instead of it being more ephemeral and fast to fade "crap chest again /sigh" motif of the past.

Galibier@Lucan DLere wrote:

They don't need to say... They don't want us to buy a complete set of the new gear the day of the xpac, so it's clear it will be new shards and we start again from scratch.

Galibier@Lucan DLere wrote:

Actually I'm pretty sure one of them said it wouldn't use the shards from TSO.

New shards. No set gear.