Will SF be like TSO?

Discussion in 'Expansions and Adventure Packs' started by ARCHIVED-CoLD MeTaL, Nov 2, 2009.

  1. ARCHIVED-Banditman Guest

    Exactly so. Raiders want raid content.
    I tried things from the "common man's" point of view when I leveled my Shadowknight, because of all the outlandish claims about what was possible and not possible with "non raid" gear.
    I have tanked Outer Stronghold and Palace of Ferzhul in Tier 1 shard armor, with a Fabled epic and Adept III spells. It was very, very hard. Still, we succeeded. I have tanked Deep Forge and NHT in Tier 1 shard armor, with a Fabled epic and Adept III spells. It was very, very easy.
    I'm not sure what else you want. I have characters who are at the upper end of the gear spectrum. I have characters at the very low end. I have characters in between. I don't have any problems doing content appropriate to their station.
    Saying that TSO was / is "Epic fail" is just flat out wrong. I have never had a level capped character who could not find TSO content appropriate to their gear / AA station.
    Instead of pointing the finger at the content, perhaps there is somewhere else to point the finger.
  2. ARCHIVED-Hamervelder Guest

    Crismorn wrote:
    TSO instances were not geared for casual players. As has been said, people in raid gear from RoK had a terrible time doing the harder zones. If raiders (who are supposedly more skilled) in great gear can't do the zones, what makes you think that 'casual' players can?
  3. ARCHIVED-Yimway Guest

    Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    Players can do any of these zones without one piece of raidgear.
    Peroid, end of story.
  4. ARCHIVED-CoLD MeTaL Guest

    Banditman wrote:
    Thanks for admiting that you 'don't get it'.
  5. ARCHIVED-CoLD MeTaL Guest

    Atan@Unrest wrote:
    There I fixed that for you Atan. Glad to be of service.
  6. ARCHIVED-Yimway Guest

    CoLD MeTaL wrote:
    Cold_Metal, just cause you fail at doing the content without raidgear, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of players that have completed TSO instances without raiding.
    In the future, don't put words my mouth if you don't mind.
  7. ARCHIVED-CoLD MeTaL Guest

    Atan@Unrest wrote:
    I didn't say there weren't 'any', I did say that I haven't met or heard from any. And i would ask, "ALL Instances"?
    You know people who do not raid that have done GuK:XXX with only RoK quested gear?
    Edit: To also ask "All shard zones in PuGs with no one being a raider and only having RoK quested gear?"
  8. ARCHIVED-Laparka Guest

    CoLD MeTaL wrote:
    Why should people be attempting any of the Guk zones in "only" year old expansion quest gear?
  9. ARCHIVED-Yimway Guest

    CoLD MeTaL wrote:
    All instance, yes, including PoF.
    RoK quested gear? No, I didn't say it was done by morons. But people with fabled epics and t2 shard gear that the earned doing TSO zones legitimately have cleared every TSO heroic zone.
    There are several small guilds that I know of on my server alone that don't raid but do this content. I can't point you to anyone still without raidgear doing it, as the ones I'm most familiar with have since farmed WoE, however they completed PoF before doing woe.
    Even my 9 year old son has tanked Varsoon in nothing but t2 and his myth.
    I understand its your personal agenda to claim everything about this game is for raiders by raiders, however it simply isn't true and no matter how many times you make that assertion it doesn't become any more true.
  10. ARCHIVED-Hamervelder Guest

    juggalo0385 wrote:
    A lot of us (at least people that I've talked to) dislike TSO for several reasons. First, the expansion doesn't really 'feel' like EQ2. Something about TSO is just a massive departure from the game as it was before. That, and the difficulty of the zones in comparison to RoK was almost disturbing. Sure, they're easier even with T1 shard gear, but the harder TSO zones were almost impossible even in RoK raid gear. That left a lot of people feeling like Sony had gone overboard.
    I personally hate token systems. What's the point of running instances? To get tokens, apparently, so that I can get better gear, and run more instances, so that I can get even MORE tokens! Why not just give me great gear in the instances in the first place? TSO's token system is silly IMO.
    Following that, is the completely over-done Void storyline. A lot of people seem to be completely tired of Void, Void, and more stinking void! Where are the dragons and orcs and goblins that are the stuff of high fantasy? If I wanted to fight alien-looking creatures, I'd go play a space game.
  11. ARCHIVED-CoLD MeTaL Guest

    Atan@Unrest wrote:
    Not my personal agenda, born out by the facts. The fact that $OE 'adjusts' these zones once they feel they have exhausted any chance of slowing down raiders.
    An organized group of 6 players that play together all the time of the correct classes, sure i totally buy that. I am talking PuGs which is where a lot people live and new comers will be.
    And myth is raider gear. (yes, I know you can buy it off some raid guilds)
    I also get 'raiders' want to keep everyone else as the sub class, in serfdom. I am just hopin $OE decides it isn't in there best interest to perpetuate their fiefdoms.
  12. ARCHIVED-Crismorn Guest

    CoLD MeTaL wrote:

    What are you babbling about now?

    TSO was created primarily for CASUAL players just like every single xpac this game has ever made, just like every single xpac this game will ever make in the future, raiders get a small piece of the pie for 24 man zones.

    Heroic zones are NOT designed for raiders, nor are they designed for any raid aquired gear to be a pre-req, if you EVER see someone say they will only take mythical geared players then that is the PLAYERS who are doing that.

    You seem to think raiders have a hidden agenda to keep you down which is just dumb

    If I had some crayons handy I'd draw you a picture or a pie chart to help better explain this so you might be able to grasp onto what is being said here.


    So once again.

    TSO was designed for YOUR playing type, casual
    Raid gear is not required for anything
    You dont NOT need a mythical to run any heroic zone in this game
    If you did want a mythical you could join one of the MANY pick-up raids that go into VP for updates without any cost to you other than a repair bill and time.

    SoE creates the game, they dont form the pick-up groups thats the players job
  13. ARCHIVED-CoLD MeTaL Guest

    Crismorn wrote:
    Uh, no.
  14. ARCHIVED-Obadiah Guest

    Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    See, and I thought the difficulty of the TSO (heroic) zones was a refreshing departure from the normal "easy but long" = "difficult" mindset. You can see some people (right above you) claiming that PoF is cake and PoF takes nothing but T2 shard gear and a mythical. I disagree, but I also don't think the difficulty is "out of line" or inappropriate.
    I also strongly prefer the token system over running VoES every night (or NHT). It was implemented poorly though, since it's really a solo grind and you don't even have to legitimately run the instances for the tokens. Neither system (rare drops, tokens) is perfect IMO, but I don't have any better ideas.
    I don't see how the void storyline was overdone either. The void was always present in the previous expansion storylines, but not overtly so and not at the core of the story. This is the first expansion where it has really been in the foreground, DoF being the next largest "dose" of it.
    And on another note, CoLD, it IS a personal agenda. C'mon. There's really no denying that. If they remotely catered TSO to raiders, there would have been more than two dozen raid mobs. This is the smallest raid progression since DoF.
  15. ARCHIVED-CoLD MeTaL Guest

    Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:
    I just hope we don't end up on some beach in our T2 armor getting 'super critical' attacks (or whatever new mechanic) and having to grind to 82 to get the new MC armor so we can survive the new zones. That is exactly the experience many (but not raiders of course) had with RoK. 'cater' is really the wrong word, as I have said $OE wants to 'slow down' the raiders which makes the rest of the population suffer, because $OE hates having some guy at 90 3rd day after launch already complaining that he has nothing to do.
    I suspect now that there are some different personel at $OE that things might go the right direction. I am a little scared to say it because it may jinx it.
  16. ARCHIVED-Crismorn Guest

    CoLD MeTaL wrote:
    So if it was not designed for raiders or casuals, who the heck is TSO designed for?

    Heroic groupers?

    I only wish heroic content was my cup of tea, I'd never run out of casual content
  17. ARCHIVED-dawy Guest

    Elhonas@Antonia Bayle wrote:
    This post sums up TSO pretty well for me at least.
  18. ARCHIVED-dawy Guest

    Crismorn wrote:
    And this TSO's problem it fell pretty much between the 2 stools of gameplay to hard (or in my case to boring for casuals)) and too easy for raiders
  19. ARCHIVED-Rijacki Guest

    Laparka wrote:
    Because the only way to be a "true" casual is to intentionally **** yourself.
    If you ever look at two pieces of gear and ponder which one is better for your character, rather than automatically equipping the newest one you got, no matter where you got it from, what it does, or what level it is in relation to your own level, you're obviously a min/maxer and not a "true" casual. If you ever think about casting a mitigation or resist debuff before casting/using damage, you're a min/maxer and not a "true" casual since spell order should never matter. If you make sure to have gear in every slot (good, bad, or otherwise), you're not a "true" casual since you might have had to go even the slightest bit out of your way to get that jewelry. You also might not even be a "true" roleplayer (if you RP) because you might wear jewelry your character wouldn't.. like an engagement ring while you're not engaged and one which was not given to you by your paramour.
    A "true" casual really can't even equip gear in regular or appearance slots based on how it looks because that too might require looking for things and considering the value (in appearance) of one item over another.
    Snarky? yes. I know I am on this subject.
    Doing an end-game heroic with only items obtained easiest in an expansion prior to the current expansion is nothing short of stupid. If that was possible, that would mean there was zero "progression" for 2 years. You might as well ask why it's not possible to do Varsoon with nothing more than gear obtained in Loping Plains and Bonemire (not the dungeons off of either of those two, the solo quests only).
  20. ARCHIVED-Jgok Guest

    I am still amazed at the sheer number of people who claim that the TSO shard zones are 'too hard' or 'require raid gear.'
    Back when I hit level 80 on my paladin, I was grouping with a bunch of folks that were trying to level to 80 together. I was a little behind the rest in terms of level. On the very day that I hit 80, I tanked Deep Forge and Scion of Ice, without a single piece of Fabled equipment. I didn't even have my Fabled epic yet. I literally dinged 80 and was in DF within 30 minutes. Most of my gear was level 75-80 Kunark Legendary, and my jewelery was mostly still 72 Mastercrafted. This was also the FIRST character I had hit level 80 on... I had no experience and little gear, and still successfully tanked two TSO zones. I even got a couple of gear upgrades in those zones, as well as four shards.
    Four shards got me boots, made by a guildie. The next day, I tanked DF, Scion, and Anathema. We didn't finish Anathema completely (we couldn't get the interrupts right on the Amalgam), but we did complete the quest and the Shard Chest, so I got 6 shards on my second day of doing TSO instances, getting me a new pair of pants... and I STILL didn't even have my FABLED epic.
    Every other class can get away with worse gear than the tank. I TANKED these zones in Kunark Legendary, while half of my group was ALSO in Kunark Legendary, and the other 2 or 3 were at best in T1 gear. On my Mystic, I solo healed DF and Scion in 72 Mastercrafted (armour and jewelery), at level 78, with a tank in half T1, half Kunark Legendary. These two zones are FREAKING EASY.
    Sure, if you go straight to Guk as soon as you hit level 80, you're gonna die. It's called 'Progression.' That's why they put out that nice chart listing the comparative difficulty of the TSO zones. You start with the easy ones. Once you've got those down pat, you've also gotten a bit of gear upgrades, so you move up a notch.
    I'd like to make my own plea to the developers. Please continue to give us challenging content that requires more than a /faceroll across your keyboard to complete. Please continue to give us boss fights that must be interrupted or moved or tanked in a specific spot or (Gods help me) detrimental cured or anything that makes it more than just a tank & spank.
    Seriously, what's so difficult about...
    • Stay close to the mob while fighting (Shade of Miragul)
    • Mez one mob and kill the other, then switch to the mezzed mob (Ankhef and Zaza)
    • Keep the mob moving throughout the fight, and stay out of the explosions (Firelord Kaern)
    • Interrupt the mob when he shouts (Atrocious Amalgam)
    • Bounce on the trampoline and hit the black floaties (Kierax the Energy Wielder)
    Are these the 'difficult scripts' people keep talking about? Seriously? I mean, those are just fights from OoA, DF, Scion, and Anathema. Any other boss fights in any of those four zones are standard tank & spank, and that's 7 shards a day right there.
    If you can't handle those 'strategies' or 'tricks' ... Well, I'm not going to be insulting, but ANYONE should be able to handle those four zones, and handling those four zones is what gets you the gear to handle the rest of the zones.