To be honest I dont even have a guardian so im not biased. I do have a bruiser and my friend has a monk. But the way it is on test servers right now and soon to be on the normal servers Monks tank better than guardians. They have around 42-45% mitigation and 85% avoidance, while Guardians have about 50% mitigation and 25% avoidance. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] 5% more mitigation for 60% less avoidance this seems very unbalanced. Not to mention that Monks do twice as much dmg. LOUD NOISES!!!!!
Um, that isn't how it is on test, they took the combat changes back off for awhile. But guardians should have way less avoidance. That's by design.
Yeah but if Guardians have way less avoidance than Monks, then Monks should have way less Mitigation than Guardians. LOUD NOISES!!!!!!
i think a reason we will never tank better than guardians is because of the cool moves we get. i mean cmon, if to tank as good as guardians we have to get rid of FD, wind walk, or awsome [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] weapons, armor and fighting style. i dont think its even worth it. cuz if they didnt take that away and still made us as good as guardians, it would make guardians really nerfed, cuz they wouldnt be no. 1 choice as tank, and their moves would be very insuperior to brawler fighting style, crusader spells, and zerker DPS. but i dunno, i might have no clue what the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] is goin on dryz
You guys are selfish. Im not posting this because i have a guardian and want him to be uber. I dont even have a guardian. But this needs to be done for the good of the game. Let me put it to you in numbers. A mob hits you 100 times for 100 dmg unmitigated. This is how the monk would come out of the battle he would avoid 85 hits take 15 hits ( 85% av) He would mitigate each of those hits down to about 55 dmg with (45% mit) taking a total of 15 hits for 55 dmg each for a grand total of dmg 825 dmg Now lets take a look at the Guardian The Guardian would only avoid 25 hits with 25% av you he would take 75 hits total. Now he will Mitigate the hits to about 45 dmg with 55% mit. So he will get hit a total of 75 times for 45 dmg each. He would take a Grand total of 3375 dmg. So monk takes 825 dmg and Guardian takes 3375 dmg. Does that seem fair? Not to mention the monk killed his twice as fast so he took only half those hits. So the totals for dmg should look more like this Guard=3375 dmg Monk =412 dmg And Guardians are supposed to be the best tanks. LOUD NOISES!!!
Avoidance doesn't work that way. Also our mitigation on test isn't 45%, although guardians buffed avoidance with the combat changes that were last on test was around 28%. But anyway, what is with this nonsense post in our forum?
i guess its to give you something to reply too:smileytongue: Don't see the point on saying much about part of a combat change that was removed from test and will probably not make it to live in that form it was in anyway.
monks/bruisers will never tank raid mobs over a plate class. We have light armor... it will go like this: Avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid, hit (healers heal), avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid, hit (healers heal), avoid, avoid, avoid, hit(near full dmg), hit(near full dmg), DEAD brawler. bad avoidance streaks will ALWAYS happen, no way they won't... part of probability... but the consequence is, brawlers won't be raid tanks over plate unless there are special mobs made (rapid low damage strikes with procs or something similar)... but that's a gimpy gimmick method of having brawlers tank I like my bruiser how he is, a passable tank in exp groups, but mostly invited for his ability to crack skulls Message Edited by Vorham on 06-20-2005 04:30 AM
We do tank Raid Mobs We should tank raids Mobs And we will tank most of the Raid Mobs (if SOE manages to balance us) because we are fighter = tank
Monk will never tank raid mob! We wear light armor, hello????? And our HP doesn't come close to that of a Guardian. We can avoid all we want, but all it takes is one high for 8000k and we're dead. A Guardian buffed up to 11k can survive that.
we never SHOULD be able to tank as well as guardians, we have too much awsome [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] that if we could tank as well, it would offset it. if we wanna get rid of all our cool stuff that guardians dont have then it would be fair if we were as good as guardians. but i dont want to lose all the cool moves and skills we have thats the main reason im a monk, to kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], and look cool doing it!
That right there is the first thing we're demanding they balance out. If anything, a physically healthy martial artist should have *MORE* hitpoints than some walking wall of armor who's gonna die of a heart attack 40% earlier than his racial life expectancy because of it.
You can play number games all you want. Yes, even if monks did indeed take less damage over time than a guardian, guardians would still be better tanks in raids. I feel confident enough in saying that we tank pretty well from monkhood till 50. But, the underlying problem is spike damage. What do healers do in raid circumstances? They spam heal (reactives/wards/etc) the MT. A guardian with 5+ mobs on him is always taking dmg. However, even with all those reactives/wards up, they still take damage, since the damage comes in faster than the reactives can heal. So, direct heals can make up the difference. Us monks... we got a problem. When we get hit, we get hit friggin' hard. So, let's say we have 7000hp buffed (just making up a number here). We get smacked for 3000hp and the ward sucks up 1000hp, the reactives heals about 500ish leaving 1500hp that needs to be healed directly. The guardian however will be taking consistent damage getting better use out of those reactives than monks do. When I get hate from some of these 55+ raid mobs, they pack a wallop Hey, I'd love to tank raid mobs... but honestly, I don't feel we have the taunts to keep hate on a group of mobs like Guardians (and pallies do ok in my experience).
Maybe the solution to fixing Monks Avoidance vs. Mitigation raid issues would be as simple as doubling a Monks Health pool. Then Streaks won't be so bad, because we will have enough health to keep streaks from killing us. If this happened they could cut our Mitigation back to Guardian Avoidance levels (28%). We would be able to handle raid content then, but still be better for lower level content (since Avoidance works dramatically better if the con is white or less.) Then Guardians could have their high level 58+ raid mobs, while Monks would be much more effective at doing level 52 or lower raid mobs (since our avoidance and HP pool would make us more efficient at that level.) We would specialize, without making it impossible for Monks to tank in higher level raids or Guardians to tank lower level raids.
This is plain simple wrong. We do tank raid mobs. At least some of us, like Jez, Gage some others and me. We do have some problems and we do worse than guardians. But thats not our fault. It is SOE´s Problem and they are aware of it. The Combat Changes will hopefully solve at least some of the problems (like buff stacking - 100% avoidance-plate-tanks)
I know I'm a newbie and all (lvl 21 monk), but if I wanted to tank like a Guardian, I would have chosen a Guardian character. IMHO there is a penalty for high avoidance and low mitigation, its getting the crap knocked out of you when you do get hit. I deal with it every time I play, those I group with know it and assist accordingly. I hope SOE doesn't change too much, I'm OK with balance, just don't turn my char into a guardian.
At 37 I can agree with that. However, it is rediculous how easily I get smacked down by an even con ^^ mob. I have 80% avoidance and 45% mitigation (buffed). Even using D specials the GF (Warden) and I can die in a matter of seconds to a ^^ even con mob. An equally equiv geared Guard/Temp pair can win that same fight easily. I know this is the case since there is a pair of that combo that hunts in the same zones as we do and are doing the same quests. Seeing is believing. Now either we should be able to tank and win that fight on occasion, or they should lose that fight on occasion. Neither is the case. We always lose and they always win.
