Why the need to lower our Unbridled Fury, AOE Abilties, and Proc rate,.

What was so terriable wrong with our Unbridle fury aoe abilties, and proc rate. We are supose to have multiple enemy encounters undercontrol. Our offense, AOE damage, and proc rate is the only reason why we hold aggro. Why have you messed with an other wised balanced class. While i dont know exactly how these changes are going to effect us (Mostly because i dotn want to spednd 2 months non stop lvl a beserker on test to get on to my lvl). I can look at them and be very disappointed cause i have an idea of what they will do. They will definantly kill our DPS. YOu lowered how many target we can effect and how much damage we do. This is aour primary means of aggro control. THen you lowered our proc rate.

Please SOE why.. why...why...why...why..why..why..... have you messed with an otherwise very balanced class. We could do our job. Not even that much better than other tanks.

OK, this is a horrible change. Every day when update notes come out, I check for Berserker related items. I can deal with the fact that we never have CA's, skills or other issues taken care of, but the only true Berserker spell-skill to get updated in months is a nerf?

W T F

I play with some RL friends and family, and even before this patch, they can all solo better then I can.

For example... the named king goblin in PoF.

My Ranger brother can solo that encounter with ease, same with my Wiz and Warlock friends, My enchanter friend, even my (tank) Monk brother can solo the encounter. I am the only one who can not seem to solo that. I know that that encounter doesnt mean squat, it's just one example. That is an encounter that berserkers should excell at (5 mobs).
We don't need an upgrade really (would be nice), but we sure as heck do not need a "nerf".
I loved EQ1... it was such a good game (I know if I loved it so much then I should go back cause this is EQ2... blah blah blah).
They need to stop the nerfs, address player issues, do some half way decent graphic changes and add more defining ones, itemize the zones propperly, figure out that some stuff shouldn't be pushed live untill fixxed, and return to how they were when they started the game. I remember people actually commenting about the way the GM's n EQ2 rocked, and how the devs actually listened to players input.
/rant off
BTW feel free to flame me, I have alot of down time at work on Sunday, so will give me some thing to read >;O)

This is a parse from a couple of hours tonight (2 groups killing lots of AoE encounters, mostly 59-61 x2/x4). I was tanking using 2H (cobalt executioner's axe) and offensive stance virtually the whole time and averaged 790 dps. Table just shows the total damage done by each spell, spells marked with a * are damage buffs by other raid members.


Art/Spell Total
slash 1020361
Furious Assault 374080
Rampaging Blow 284433
Stunning Howl 113587
Thornstorm 109881 *
Deadly Invective 96503 *
Gleaming Strike 81612
Amputate 75591
Counterattack 73663
Flameshield 70508 *
Frenzied Blows 66138
Breach 65512
Unyielding Battering 54978
Wallop 50319
Slaughter 47918
Berserker Rush 35689
Provoking Counterattack 34549
Blade Chime 34352 *
Slay 32124
Sanguine Feedback 25939
Brutal Pledge 25016
Ruthless Strike 24529
Linked Pain 13432 *
Gnoll Master's Strike 10665
Fae Fires 6799 *

So, the proc from Unbridled Fury contributed 15% of total damage (discounting damage buffs from others). Far more than any other combat art, or spell. Make of that what you will.

Notes:
Capped strength, 100% dps and 100% haste buffs, all spells Master or Adept III (Unbridled Fury is Master I).

Can you possibly explain this post and its point it just seem like you through a whole bunch of number out there for interpretation. From me looking at it i see that i was right they nerfed or strongest abilty and as i fear it will more than likly nerf our aggro control...

Just providing some data on what skills give what output. Everyone on the board can interpret it however they like. Cry about a nerf if you like (you already were, and you would continue to, no matter what anyone posted).

My personal opinion is that I won't particularly care about the reduction, and I know I won't be having dps or aggro problems as a result.
Message Edited by Pin StNeedles on 11-06-2005 06:31 AM

"Cry about a nerf if you like (you already were, and you would continue to, no matter what anyone posted)."


Hey Pin, why when some of us have an issue with them taking a damaging spell thats great, and they seem to take off some of the harsh edges on it.... hence NERF'ing it....

Remember when you were younger and you used to throw a football around in your house, and without fail you would break things.... maybe a hole in the wall, maybe a lamp..... then this awsome company came out with these soft balls and footballs...... altho it was still possible to do damage stuff in the house, most of the danger was removed because the balls were made soft.

Why do you say we "Cry" about it?

Is it supposed to be a little personal attack .. a little cheap shot... a little some thing thats isn't out right rude but still makes you feel better about yourself for some reason?

Your post was great until you added that third sentence..... There was no real reason for it...... Zhonata wasn't trying to say anything that was going to effect you in a negative way.... We are all people who play Berserkers...... we should act like a comunity, not people just reading these boards waiting to start a fight with eachother.

So assuming it is 15% of our totasl damage....and it just got hit for 40% ( 2/5) plus an unknown " slight" reduction in overall damage, we're losing something over 6% of or total damage output ((40% of 15%)+the unknown percent) because of one spell? *my math may be a bit fuzzy, been a while, but I think thats right* to me this seems like a fairly major reduction, considering the other 2 top tank dps classes( monks and bruisers) got no reduction at all. maybe it won't be as bad as it seems, but from the raw numbers it looks grim. of course if the max number for open wounds does increase by 3, maybe we can all be happy when we reach 57, til then??

If they are going to reduce our damage output by that much ( which means agro ability will be lessened ) when will they scale down the effectiveness of the paladin agro sieve lines ? ( amends and their group agro sieve is the reason why paladins are tanking for us now in raids ) Also when are they gonna take a look at the paladin AE taunt ( hmmm threat + debuff is more powerful then str8 threat )

Keep it fair SoE, since you feel that we are "too powerful" spread your nerf love accross the board then

And so it should add 15% to your total damage in Offensive Stance. hence is why its called Offensive stance.

For me this wont effect me because i rarely use the skill and Pin once again shows us how over powered 2 hand proc ratios really are, do the same parse using dual weild and i bet its half that amount reguardless of if your tanking or not.

So what does SoE do, instead of adjusting the 2 hand proc ratios they just nerf the skill, 3 targets max.........:smileyindifferent:, you will be lucky if this skill even adds to 3% of your total DPS after the nerf, and it will be yet another totally useless skill in your knowledge books.

So much for a Offensive Stance.

Why do you people bring us into your mess. You dont see Paladins complaining about your DPS or to nerf you. Your DPS is a ton better than ours and you people are now crying about Paladins? Tanks with lower DPS are supposed to have better aggro skills to make up for it.

Whats up with this? since when do people call for nerfs on other classes, Styker? have some class, man. Instead of trying to nerf us, why dont you work on getting your class improved.

This is sad. Paladins have had the absolute worst aggro since the game came out. You people have NEVER had aggro problems like we've had...and you still hold aggro just fine. So friggin what if our AE taunt debuffs divine? it does absolutely nothing for us. Doesnt increase our DPS, doesnt make our nukes stronger.

Please stop calling for nerfs to other classes, specially classes like Crusaders, who just RECENTLY became able to hold aggro like Berserkers have had since the game came out.

Tell you what..when they give us DPS like you guys, Ill be the first to call for the mana sieve to be toned down.

Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on 11-08-2005 04:43 AM

I dont see anything wrong with Zekers atm. My brother is lvl 56 and with a Coblat Imbued Executioners Axe he does Insane amounts of dmge. He went for Rampage Master 2, and the rest of his spells are Adept 3, self buffed his Str is almost 400 (think its 390). I have a very very hard time keeping aggro off him when he lets loose.

When we grp (oh I'm an SK btw) I would stick despoiling mist on the mob (AC Debuff 1050) taunt a crap load, then let him go wild on the dmge. One of his CAs does like 520dmge, however with Dispoiling mist it does 720+dmge and if he hits rampage I loose aggro.

As for the changes in Lu16 i'm not sure how this affects you, however my brother doesnt seem concerned but then again he is lvl56 so some changes may not apply.

Anyway I like grping with Zerkers as we complement eachother.

Please dont take this as a flame.

Plant

/sigh

Please read the entire post before you respond. The point was that they are lowering our offensive capabilties and our procs rates ( I.E. our aggro control) By a very substantial number. Since our abilty to hold aggro depends on the damage we do and how often our procs fire this is going to efect us in a big way. The poster was simply saying if they are going to nerf our aggro control they need to adress some other classes as well. As of right now i think beserkers are jsut fine we hold aggro we do our share of damage and we can tank. WE can have every person in the world come in here and complain about something or another, but in end it is the people who play the class that get the shaft.

Them nerfing our offense and procs rates is the equvilent of them nerfing your ameds thus his point is made. If you can truly grasp that concept then maybe you will understand some of the frustration we have.
Message Edited by Zhonata on 11-08-2005 10:46 AM

"If they are going to reduce our damage output by that much ( which means agro ability will be lessened ) when will they scale down the effectiveness of the paladin agro sieve lines ? ( amends and their group agro sieve is the reason why paladins are tanking for us now in raids ) Also when are they gonna take a look at the paladin AE taunt ( hmmm threat + debuff is more powerful then str8 threat )

Keep it fair SoE, since you feel that we are "too powerful" spread your nerf love accross the board then "


This is what Styker wrote. He's calling for nerfs to us. This is his entire post. Nowhere does he argue to improve his Berserker, he just calls for nerfs on us. Now, I'd like to see a post in the Paladin forums where we call for a nerf to Berserker damage or Berserker taunts. I've never heard of a Paladin stealing a Berserkers aggro. Even with your damage nerfed..not by PALADINS, but by SoE, you STILL out DPS by a quite a bit.

How about waiting for this to hit live before you call for nerfs on us. If it's that bad of a change, and it does hurt your aggro skills, then argue to increase your taunts or to improve your aggro somewhere. Dont drag another class down who had absolutely nothing to do with this.

I can understand frustration, but calling for a nerf to another class is NOT the way to improve yours.


Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on 11-08-2005 10:00 PM

Dont get me started on your superior AE taunt ( lets see threat increase + debuff vs a threat increase no debuff ? that should answer it ) , your Agro sieve abilites (put amends on a zerker and both of you start taunting a mob.... wait i forgot at adept 3 amends is a 40% agro sieve so your still receving 40% of my agro from my taunts ) Lets see your 52 group agro sieve ability isnt being touched while our 52 PBae taunt is being limited to 8 targets max....
There is a reason why our guild uses paladins ALOT now to tank in raids... you know why? Amends is a powerful tool ... put a warlock in your group and put amends on him.. ive seen it done the pally will hold agro where the berserker in that same group tanking will lose it )
Yes your agro sieve lines need to be looked at and yes your AE taunt needs its debuffed removed... Hmm would you also like to compare your shield bash+ taunt vs our dd atk+ taunt both at either adept 1 or 3 ?
The "dps" you say berserkers can do better then paladins was the major factor in us being able to put out agro like yall but now that we are receving a dps reduction where does that put the zerker over a paladin now ?
Of course paladins aren't gonna ask for a zerker nerf on your boards, you want to keep your agro ability hush hush so people dont catch on but guess what !? People are catching on...
Oh and the kicker is this... LU 16 Doom Judgement ( paladin/shadowknight AE ) is getting its 2% dps debuff changed , now besides damage it debuffs arcane and noxious benefical spells on targets that land to it ( debuff = big agro generation.. woohoo talk about kickin zerkers in the nutts )
I will say it again SoE if you are gonna reduce our tank effectiveness then the nerf bat needs to be swung at other tank classes as well

Message Edited by Styker on 11-08-2005 11:48 PM
Message Edited by Styker on 11-08-2005 11:48 PM
Message Edited by Styker on 11-08-2005 11:50 PM
Message Edited by Styker on 11-08-2005 11:51 PM

First off..amends has never been a secret, not have we ever tried to keep it secret..Paladins, Wizards, Warlocks, ETC, have been talking about it on the open forums for months. Your conspiracy theories are great morning comedy. Secret? heh.
As for taunts..yes..Id love to compare taunts..tell you what..ill link mine and you link yours..then we'll do a spell for spell DPS comparison, plus a spell by spell debuff comparison, and a self / grp buffs comparison too.
Lets see how many debuffs Berserkers have vs Paladins. We'll also see how much more DPS you have than Paladins..then well see how our taunts compare to yours. I'd love to see it. Aggro is maintained by DPS as much as taunts. You have more DPS than us, and more debuffs than us.
Stop complaining about us, and try to fix your class. Theres a grp of us who have been doing it with our class with success since January. I suggest you do the same.
Without having to resort to calling for other classes to be nerfed.
"your Agro sieve abilites (put amends on a zerker and both of you start taunting a mob.... wait i forgot at adept 3 amends is a 40% agro sieve so your still receving 40% of my agro from my taunts ) Lets see your 52 group agro sieve ability isnt being touched while our 52 PBae taunt is being limited to 8 targets max...."
Now, guess what..our AE's got nerfed too..ours ALSO hit 8 mobs only..only they do LESS damage than yours. Thats not rocket science, but you didnt mention that did you.

Message Edited by uzhiel feathered serpent on 11-09-2005 01:06 AM

Man it's so sad what SOE just does to this class. Nerf Nerf Nerf!

I'm so digusted with them.

paladins dont get a buff that gives them hate whenever theyre hit like guards, zerkers, and shadowknights do, so mabey that should be taken away from us. Paladins also dont get any buffs for thier own mitigation like zerkers and guardians do. And the ae taunt is not ae, its encounter, so it doesnt hit multiple encounters like guardians guarding assault. Oh, and paladins dont get 2 group hp regens and an 81str group buff, nor a 76agi buff from thier target avoidance buff. Oh you also have more avoidance that crusaders while defensive. so... stop your complaining.

"paladins dont get a buff that gives them hate whenever theyre hit like guards, zerkers, and shadowknights do, so mabey that should be taken away from us."
Berserkers don't have any spell that gives them hate when ever they get hit.... I can be tanking 10 mobs, and that spell goes off maybe once every 20+ hits.... and it only effects the one mob it hits....


"Paladins also dont get any buffs for thier own mitigation like zerkers and guardians do."
I M H O the mit buffs that a berserker gets don't even get us close to what we lose having to be offencive stance for agro...


"And the ae taunt is not ae, its encounter, so it doesnt hit multiple encounters like guardians guarding assault. "
Paladin taunt steals agro from the person they cast it on, so it can hit out of encounter depending on who they cast it on....
Also the Berserker AE mostly causes more damage then it helps... from what I have seen any way.... INC 10 adds, oops!


"Oh, and paladins dont get 2 group hp regens and an 81str group buff, nor a 76agi buff from thier target avoidance buff."
Trade ya our buffs for heals....



"Oh you also have more avoidance that crusaders while defensive. so... stop your complaining."
If I go defencive I WILL LOSE AGRO... my agro depends on my own dps....
Message Edited by Croff on 11-09-2005 09:01 AM

Since EQ2 seem to be a little hard to understand for you, I will explain it

Zerker, SKs, Bruiser, Monk all trade raws agro for raws dps. Paladin and guardian trade raws dps for raws agro. easy eh ?

Raws dps rating: Bruiser/monk > zerker/Sks > Guard/Paladin
Raws agro rating: Guard/paladin > zerker/sks > Bruiser/Monk

The days of the Redemption line nerf will be the same day where Paladin become an OFFENSIVE tank and start to dps more than a zerker, that what you want Stryker ?

And btw, stop taunting and stop trying to peel the MT when you are not tanking, maybe your guild will use you to tank if you stop playing like an idiot...