Why so few Bruisers?

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Tharrakor, Mar 22, 2015.

  1. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    This is most likely the biggest reason yes! It may be a discussion for a different thread but it still factors in as big possible factor to "why there are so few bruisers" being the "offensive" brawler one would like this to be noticable. It can only be noticable thru abilitys and CAs because we share the same Base autoattack. Differences in CAs and abilitys in form of dmg shows itself when can build some potency and ability mod. As it stands today autoattack is by far the most effective way for a brawler to add dps and the lack of potency makes ability modifier a waste compared to reforging it into say dps mod or haste. This, this could be the major factor. Hopefully the coming changes to fighters will fix this issue.
  2. xkrisx Well-Known Member

    monk
    - more avoidance temps: a total of ~40s (vs ~20s)
    - a lot of strikethrough, a nice 50m taunt
    - better protection to others: a heal, a damage reduction, group FD
    - some small wards, a bit more block and resists, more useful mitigation temps

    bruiser
    - by far superior aggro control (especially aoe), more aoe attacks, slightly better dps
    We don't have FAR superior agro control. We have 1 AoE Snap. Monks have Provoking Stance adding Hate Position increases to Reprimand / Challenge and Silent Threat. That's 3 Additional Single target snaps on a 1min30sec Reuse vs Bruiser Wild Beating. I will agree we have slightly better AoE Agro because of Wild Beating but we far from superior.
    - more stoneskins (notably non-physical)
    We have 1 More Stone skin then Monk in all reality and its on a 50% Trigger when we take 40% Max HP in Damage on a 45 second cool down ( yeah.. I don't count this ) and its very debatable as I stated above on Stone Deaf vs Superior Guard on witch is more powerful. So, " More Stonekins " is technically correct but in practice is wrong.
    - more interrupts, more stuns
    I suppose for Heroics this works but never really knew outside of very specific fights that would require the tank of all classes to need to interrupt the target. In raid content, all fighters have the same amount of interrupts " 1 ".
    - more self-cures, twice as frequent self-heal
    Bruisers do NOT have more self-cures. Monk self cure with AA cures EVERYTHING, Bruiser self cure doesn't cure Noxious.

    ______ SNIPPED FROM SCALO ________

    Do you even bruiser ?
  3. xkrisx Well-Known Member

    Anyways.. I do NOT want monks and bruiser's to be equal for the same things. One needs to be better than the other on certain things and so forth. At this time, if you excel at the class, your going to be better then most Monks and just because your skill level is that high on the Bruiser, it doesn't mean you can do even better on a monk. I tried and failed miserably and I can point you to an entire guild of raiders to attest to that. If your mediocre on the class, then your going to be below most tanks in terms of Agro / Survivability and DPS.

    I will say that Bruiser fails to have Pizazz in the eyes of most people compared to monk and it will always be that way until either the Bruiser gets something new or the monk gets nerfed. As it stands, whatever you add to gear or new AA's that you provided to both classes will not provide the pizazz we need as it will further boost the monk as it would boost us thus leaving the superiority in place.

    Pizazz - lol..
  4. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    Both brawlers have enough snaps as it is. Mantis leap + craneflock + 4sec delay weapons pretty much garantees aggro while AE dpsers do their burst. I still even use draconic effigy for that xtra dps and AE hate control. This goes for both brawlers. Bruiser has wild beatings on top of that. Monk has dragonfire that procs on basically every autoattack so both brawlers should have very good hate control as long as you are using the tools given. I no longer have any issues holding aggro and with all the memwiping this xpac i am very happy with all my snaps. Drag can even prevent that and prevent named from casting Wich is Awesome.
    There are times where nameds port or knock me back and switch target. Martial leap will instantly teleport me back there and intercept target ally aswell as reducing the hate position of all targets nearby towards the named. So even if named goes out of range of my snaps i can just teleport and DRAG him back within seconds. Love this!
    Where other tanks struggle with aggro due to Chain stuns i will just pop "close mind" and pwn for 12seconds.
    I can stoneskin my healer when i need to. I can force a full encounter to target me even if i was all the way down the hatelist.
    I love the bruiser and tools given to me but do i ask for more? Ofc! Thats just human nature! :)
  5. Regolas Well-Known Member

    I found it incredibly easy going from bruiser to monk...

    All my stats went up, I had more tanking temps, at the sacrifice of an AE snap.
  6. Corydonn Well-Known Member

    Monks have Dragonfire which is huge for AE threat... But I was bored so I started reading this thread again and I saw the word broken come up and yeah... Two abilities still are broken for bruisers... Well three if you count the beneficial secret broken ability.

    Drag hasn't been useable or had a use in PVE for a long time when it used to be so amazingly fun and cool to find uses on adds and statues with.

    Martial Leap is still 100% doodie and having Imp. Will replacing the tank endline with that makes our TSO endline abilities super doody.

    That and for bruiser you need to gear up 50% strikethrough to match the free stats monks get and don't even get started on how many stats you need to get to match up with the basic AAs plate tanks get.
  7. xkrisx Well-Known Member

    I still stand by the fact that unless they give something specifically to the Bruiser as a class ability that makes them stand out, the monk will ALWAYS be the " Stronger Class / Better Class / Easier To Play Class " for 98% of the population. I still stand by the solid truth that a Bruiser can tank anything in game but...

    If you add offensive stats to fighter gear, will it help the Bruiser, absolutely. Will it help every other fighter as well, darn strait. So in essence of bumping Fighter DPS, you do NOTHING to give the Bruiser that little somethin somethin. If you give Brawlers a shared AA again like you did this expac with the new Prestige Tree's, all your doing is bumping the monk as much as the bruiser thus making NO difference in the public opinion of Bruiser vs Monk. SoE missed a hell of a chance to fix this with the Prestige Tree's in AOM but instead gave each Class / Subclass the exact same thing.

    If someone were to ask me what you could give a Bruiser over a Monk to NOT make them over powered, but to give them a fighting chance in the publics eye as a good tank, I would tell you I dont know. I could give some idea's but thats about it.

    I would say add an additional 50% AOE Auto to a Buff like the Swash's Hurricane or maybe tweek in the AA somewhere for us.

    Or add some Strike Through Immunity to our Short Term Mitigation Temp.

    Maybe give us an " Until Triggered Death Prevent like a Zerker Has " <-- little OP

    Just some ideas..
  8. Corydonn Well-Known Member

    Just a suplex with animation would be enough.
  9. Regolas Well-Known Member

    I agree. Add 50% AE auto buff is a good call. I'd also up bruisers base mitigation as they're supposed to be more brutal and less agile than a monk.

    Tbh I wouldn't be upset if Bruisers get another temp similar to Tsunami. Maybe a little shorter duration.
  10. xkrisx Well-Known Member


    We dont need anymore Avoidance Buffs on the class, tanking isn't supposed to be a 100% Temp Rotation, its supposed to be about knowing when to use said temps.. I like my gaps :)
  11. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    Yeah adding something to the mit temp is a good idea. Or atleast remove that massive wdb debuff so i will actually want to use it without thinking "is it really worth it?" Prestige point has a chance to reset this ability and as it stands right now its super crappy. Add sumthin or remove debuff please!

    AoE auto is way to easy to get as it is, if we dont spec craneflock what do we spec? Eagle shriek? Pfft!
  12. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    Drag is Awesome! It interrupts and prevents nameds from casting otherwise uninterruptable abilitys.
  13. Regolas Well-Known Member

    Gaps are fine if you can avoid being 1 shotted. If that's possible now with the mit increases, then great.

    My monk, being my second tank, hasn't done a lot of zones, but in the blue ones he doesn't even need to use his avoidance temps very often, and his gear is pretty poor still.

    But not done anything challenging on any of my tanks yet. Or any other class for that matter. Den/temple is as far as I've managed to PUG on any toon. No idea on raids as none available on my playtimes.
  14. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    Getting oneshotted on my bruiser is far less likely then getting one shotted on my pally, for example.
    I was tanking the epic Inquisitor in oss contested who casts carrionplague with a grp who was xtremely bad at interrupts, fight took 19min as we had quite poor dps and i wasnt killed once due to having those xtra stoneskins from stonedeaf. While all stoneskins were down i had those deathsaves to lean on. There is a gap between these due to the recast on the deathtriggers but it isnt that long. I am growing more fond of my bruiser everyday and i would actually like to encourage you to try one out again. I do not miss being a monk even tho they are super Awesome aswell.
  15. SheirarkDrakonis New Member

    I have not played the last 2 expansions but i am thinking about coming back. I just wanted to stop in and say it's somewhat amusing to see practically the same conversation about bruisers going on as i did for most of the time i played this game. I started right before DoF launched and played a bruiser all the way up through TSO when i went to dirge for the guild. Bruiser has always been a difficult class to play at a very high level and actually be useful. Monks used to have the same problem but became better tanks before bruisers ever got to tank some of the harder raid content. However even back then it was still possible to do things with the class that most people didn't think would work. I managed to tank woushi as a bruiser when it was current content lol. Not the best choice, but we made it work for ***** at the time. Sometimes i think if people would put a little more time into really learning the class and mechanics and when to use what abilities there would be less nerf/buff/broken threads around. Also, you shouldn't need to have a rotation of temp buffs to be able to survive content assuming you have a competent and cohesive raid force. At least in my opinion.
    Silzin and Tharrakor like this.
  16. Aurius New Member

    Its obvious that bruisers need something if you need to be completely on your game and know the class inside out to do what most other tank classes can do with far less effort/knowledge.

    Also, can't help but notice that alot of players are saying "give bruisers just a tiny little something, but not too much".
  17. xkrisx Well-Known Member


    I will say that I think alot of people dont want the class to become the flavor of the month, they just want the class to be known as a viable tank option.
    Tharrakor likes this.
  18. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    For sure! Alltho they are, i am convinced, hence why i started this thread asking ppl why they think there are so few bruisers. In game i was getting comments such as "wtf a bruiser!?" and "ppl still play those?" People also told me bruisers were broken but i could not see it. There might be a learning curve issue to it sure but still IMHO bruisers are easier then guardian in heroics, might be a bad example since guardians are rare in heroics aswell, alltho far more common then bruisers.
    It would be nice if ppl were to recognise bruisers for what they are. A great tank in the right hands!
  19. Veeman Active Member

    I can only speak for my raiding guild on this one. Why a monk and not a bruiser? Because the monk has been a guildy for a few years now, is a great player and has no desire to betray. Hence, no bruiser since we limit the number of guild members.