Let me break this down for you. A couple of classes are not on that list. Therefore they got 0% increase. That means that even a 1% increase is a 1% increase.
but if so many mobs didn't OS us ... SKs would be in such a better state tanks/healers's reason to be in group isn't for dps. I would remind the OP. u bring a tank so he can keep all mobs on him and stay alive. and u bring a healer coz u want everyone to stay alive. DPS comes second, more DPS is always better, but it's not their main role. So a 6% damage increase on SK won't make them suddenly the better tanks. Just like 5% dps increase to wardens won't make them the most wanted healers. but if SKs are 4th in line in tank DPS .. who are the top ones ??? coz I felt SKs (same gear and ascensions) were quite high ... zerker ? yes it does u said if everyone gets 3% damage increase then 1% is a nerf BUT ... some classes (rangers, shamans, conjurers) don't get any damage boost .. so 1% is still a buff
JFC this is getting stupid. If class A is at 0%, and class B gets 3% buff, is it a buff or a nerf? Herrmmmm, depends on if your are class A or class B, doesn't it? Class A will see it as a nerf because class B got 3% more than him, lowering class A's relative DPS position on the parse. How-freaking-ever, class B will see it as a buff since he will move up the parse over class A. So, yes, we all agree depending or not depending if you just want to argue on a 13 year old game forum. Choose your format, or understanding of perspective and math. FFS. As for whatever you're blithering on about tanks not needing to DPS or some nonsense: Let's go with adds as a great example. If adds need to be picked up and held for 15-30 seconds, then a high DPS tank is a great option to hold adds or run heroics with, as DPS burst damage is difficult to control hate against. Now if you are tanking a hard hitting named, then yeah sure maybe DPS isn't as big of a deal because you can temp up prepull and get an AV and turtle it up. I think the point of boosting SK DPS more than others was to maybe reaffirm their role as a off-tank? Who knows, maybe devs, but I doubt it. I hate this thread.
I hate when people just HALF read what I say. it's not their PRIMARY goal. I never said they didn't need to dps, they FIRST NEED TO TANK..
You are getting push back because you took and are still maintaining an incorrect position. One class getting a buff is NOT the same as another class getting a nerf. Yes, their relative position will change but you are simply incorrect in using the term "nerf" or "reduction" in that context. You also came out with the "Barney style" comment meaning you went straight for juvenile personal attacks and continue to work hard at maintaining that same attitude in the thread. Not the best way to make yourself look knowledgeable. So, to sum up: If class A gets a 5% boost...they are buffed. If sister class B gets a 3% boost...they are buffed albeit less than class A. If sister class B has no change...they are neither buffed nor nerfed but their relative position to class A will change. If sister class B has a 3% reduction...they are nerfed. With the way your are incorrectly describing this scenario, if necromancers right now were given a bit of a boost in damage output to catch up with conjurors on the parse, then you would have to say that conjurors were nerfed even if they weren't touched at all. Same thing could be said for swashies and brigs. Or, following your logic, if dirges were given better utility to make them more comparably desirable to troubs, then troubs just got a nerf. It simply doesn't work that way.
Nobody has mentioned the basic fact that SK vs Pally turns out Pally every time in serious endgame. Why? Not because of dps, but because of survivable AND Amends. My reading of this so called "SK love" is that it's confirmation that the designers expect us to hold hate via dps. As I've pointed out before, the straight numbers on damage skills is an order of magnitude (or two) higher than the numbers on threat gain skills. In case that's hard to figure... what I mean is, if I have a damage skill, it might do 3 million at face value. If I have a threat skill, it might do 1 million damage, but its threat component is in the hundred thousands (lower order of magnitude). Without Amends, the only way I have to pull threat is dps. I'm creeping up on the point of being able to test that theory in experts, but I'm not there yet. I returned about 4 months ago. Possibly those who play SK's in experts and manage to hold hate vs the 6-billion dps classes can tell us more about why they think the dps was buffed, but really a 1% diff between Pally and SK is not worth worrying about. I suspect it was due to hate control being harder for us. As for survivable, it used to be I relished that I could be "almost dead" in one second and full health the next. I focused a lot of my AA's formerly on "unconscious health" and it fit the roleplay of a dark knight to be able to oultlast or cheat death. Now it's more like "roll the dice and see if you live." It has become too random. I'm going to retool the AA's to give me more damage resist as I lose health. I think that may be why it feels so random to me now. But dying as an SK is all part of the fun, it's the ultimate gambler's class... I gamble that I can take all of these mobs on... and even if I have to heal up from 1% health... I'll do it while I stand on their corpses! This. At least we wont' be hearing "we need class balance" for a while. I'll be sure to reference that announcement whenever that bugaboo starts again. lol
SKs with their epic are better than paladins by a longshot. 20% more potency than any other class and a pet to generate threat.
better I don't know ... but as always .. sure I love the fact that SK don't have defensive limitations on their off stance ... it fits their role. But still ... in big fights they cannot stay in offensive stance. def stance still gives max health, DR and so on. and all DPS is useless if u can't stay alive. and same geared SK struggle a bit more than brawlers or warriors or pallies ... that's it .. because of balance. tell me if I'm wrong but brawlers rely on avoidance warriors relied mostly on being able to take big blows and mitigate it crusaders were more the I tanke hits but I outheal them. I mean they even have AAs that make heals better on them but when it's easy to be OS ... well ... sustain isn't as awesome anymore just tell me how many SKs are MT in raids ?
Not sure what guilds you people are raiding with, but i have seen SKs tank all current content as part of a tank team ( that means MTing ) just fine.
I MT raid often. Mostly because the guardian is afk from time to time with kid aggro and the monk isn't geared fully yet. On a fight where survival is an issue we have the guardian take over MT duties. The question isn't really whether SKs MT raids- sure we do. But I can tell you from experience with a raid with an SK and a guardian with about the same level of gear- the guardian has more survivability. I can solo heroics easier than he can (due to self heals) but when paired with chain/plate healer combo, the SK self heals aren't as important for obvious reasons. This is exactly how things should work. If all classes were the same the game would be ... like the PG. (/eyes bleed).
There are so many factors involved that there is no such thing as "Best Tank" or "Worst Tank" I'll give an example from my personal experience this expac. We had two healers who needed the epic 2.0 update in great divide and we decided, due to how nasty the fight is, to x2 it. We had 2 similarly geared paladins as tanks, except the other tank already had his epic 2.0 and I was still working on mine. I had a warden as healer, and the other paladin had a defiler (you know the healer everyone had been saying is OP at the beginning of KA) He died over and over and I didn't die once, even with me having the "weaker" healer. The first biggest difference was that I've always specced for survivability over dps and our AA builds were very different from each other. The second difference is my healer and I have been playing together since the game came out and know each other so well that we compliment each other well as a team, The other paladin and the defiler had just met about 5 mins before the fight started. Does that make him a "worse" tank than me? No it does not, it only means he plays the game with a different philosophy as I do. And playing with people you know is always easier as the learning by doing involved in PUGs. Now back to the subject at hand. Like I cheekily said in my first post in this thread is that 1% is not enough of a difference to make me want to play a SK. But that's also due to my preference on which tank class I like to play. It's not really enough of a difference to even get upset about and I would say the same thing if it was 10% instead of just 1%.
There totally is the only differences you gave is one guy is a idiot and the other is full survival all the time which really is not needed unless your running with not much for healing, tanks have to switch back and forth not fun but its part of the job if you want to min max in every situation, but if you know for instance your going into a fight with a lot of incoming damage yea id say get your turtle shell out. My point is there is totally a best or worst tank class I mean the monk can do just about any job that any other tank can do without any help from other tanks but say a Shadowknight would get pulverized by stuff a Monk wouldn't even notice just because how the content is, if everything were *balanced* like people were saying it was ages ago it still would not be balanced I mean TOV people said was a good point for balanced tanking but Crusaders were cast aside mostly then too and then there were Zerkers running around duel wielding in full dps gear solo tanking avatars without a healer.... there is always a best and worst tank.
I've never need to switch, because I'm always the main tank in heroic content that my friends and I do. And in solo content... it really makes no difference. And I don't raid. I also don't need to stack healers, so there is that.
Im talking from a raiding aspect not from a solo/heroic aspect when everything dies in less than maybe 15 seconds and you can duo experts or even solo them in full dps mode, so when I say you need to switch for some situations heroics or anything else meaningless does not apply which id say includes anything tier 2 and under raid content except maybe on xpack release day because anything under that is sarcastic content, and when I said when you have a lack of heals I mean your being solo healed by a fury or something that's not designed to heal tanks very well and seeing you don't really raid typically MT group in raid has 2 healers so in that case im referring to is when your Main tanking in a raid setting being solo healed by a defiler or just that 1 fight of the xpack like summoned foes if your tanking Terris not so much Saryn though.
How is the pet generating hate? They have some kind of agro transfer? Generally speaking, pets only give threat to their master when they die. If you are trying to compare SK dps and Paladin dps, don't even bother. Paladins have terrible DPS, which really doesn't matter except when the paladin is solo. Paladin excels at holding agro, and is better at survivability than a SK. That really isn't saying much tbh. SK uses damage to hold agro. They don't have nearly as many agro management abilities as other tanks, and no where near as effective too. So honestly, they need more potency than other tanks. And at the end of the day, a 1% increase means way more for an SK than it does a Paladin. You really have to look at the starting point for each class. A 5% increase for a class that does pathetic DPS isn't as significant than a 5% increase for a class that starts doing 4 times as much DPS before the increase. Looking at the numbers posted, the only clear winner is assassins. Everybody else just seems to be treading water.
