He does hit like a truck netty even my Guard risks death-by-spike if I get too far from my healers. I was speculating as I heard from some zerks that they didn't like what happened with Adrenaline. Nice to hear the other side of the coin. Imo zerks are still amazing OT's as adds usually only have physical damage.
The problem with Adrenaline is it went from an amazing <O ****> tool, to a <why am I using this> tool. 50% flat out damage reduction for 30seconds with a massive power cost on termination, we weren't happy about the power cost, but the power of the ability was enough to justify it; now its a reactive heal that heals you for 50% of the damage you receive for 30 seconds, while STILL having the massive power drain. Before, could mean the difference between a death touch and an almost death touch, now....death touch is death touch, you can't heal the dead. Its still good for spike damage from flurry/ma/lots of crap hitting you at once, but so is frenzy, and that won't drain all your power. I agree that guardian DPS does need looked at, but at the same time, so does zerk survivability. Where guardian supposedly gives up offense for their defensive standing, and zerks give up defense for their "offensive" standing, wheres the sacrifice on crusaders and brawlers? The BS lines that warriors in general have been fed about why they are how they are have been completely negated since DoV atleast, I was on hiatus for SF so can't speak for it, with brawlers, and much longer then that for crusaders. In an equally geared SK, running Def. with sword and shield, I can easily out tank and out dps my zerk with far less effort, and the only reason I MIGHT have issue competing with a guard is because of all the group saves and snaps that a guard gets. Either way, crusader can faceroll the keyboard and out tank any equally geared and skilled warrior, and both classes need to be looked at in regards to their sacrifice vs. gains that we've been spoon fed and force fed over the years. Well played zerks and guards can be amazing tanks, unfortunately, equally played and geared brawler/crusader is a better tank out of the gate, in DPS and survivability, with minimal and sometimes even no sacrifice.
This is the part I would like to address. Indeed Guards dps lower but we don't have hate problems. I don't see an issue really with Guard dps other than it should be minorly higher in offense stance vs defense stance. As is the difference between my stances is nigh nothing (<10K on a 150K parse). Zerks however need their survival addressed indeed, SF was good to Zerks they even were MTing some fights. Warriors since they have that tradeoff mechanic should be more dps or more survival than the other tank classes imo. Brawlers - Strength: The avoid a lot of damage and have good dps output. - Decent: Survival against most types of incoming damage. - Weakness: If they are hit, it hurts a lot more due to leather armors protection rating being lower. Crusaders - Strength: Good AE damage and aggro control with well timed spells. - Decent: Survival through damage they are about equal on both. - Weakness: limited snaps and very little survival vs extremely high damage. Warriors (I have to split this due to the difference) Guardians - Strength: Extremely powerful survival tools and able to take damage where most would die. - Decent: Threat generation though maintained damage, rely a lot on snaps. - Weakness: Dps is very low compared to all other tanks. Berserkers - Strength: AE hate is amazing on these guys through their snaps and dps. - Decent: Utility is alright for a zerk not amazing but not horrid. - Weakness: If mobs hit for pretty much more than 30-60% of the zerks HP he will drop. Survival is the issue. Guardians are quite well balanced given that to gain their iconic survival they must loose almost all DPS lines to do so. Though a zerk does the same but in reverse he doesn't have the option to take full defensive lines and do even half as good as a Guardian. The problem is Zerks need a look over as their counterpart the Guardian is doing what the archetype should. The three Fighter AA threads I feel have very very well addressed issues within the KoS AA lines that would fix the whole Zerker vs Guard dps problem and touch up a few things for Brawlers and Crusaders to give them more choices.
This has been significantly improved upon with prestiges; although paladins especially need to drop a significant amount of DPS in order to gain them; pushing down the defensive prestigues also raises paladin survival vs SK survival.
Yep which really is a good thing, Prestieges should be trade offs not flat upgrades. Thanks for the edit. I only casually play a Paladin and they are a solo-bot to boot. Every class needs a defined weakness another class makes up for it's part of what keeps EQ2 a "team" type game even though it's an MMO which I very much find desirable in games as Co-op sells better than Singleplayer or flat out Player vs Player.
And now we even get to pick that "other class" via a mercenary so we're a one-man tag team: I think I said this on another thread: my main is a guardian, I've soloed my way to 76 so far (locked for a bit before I push to 90), doing most of the quests and taking my time along the way (as well as some breaks from the game). Being a guardian isn't about killing things: it's about not dying. And we're very, very good at that. Play the class to its strengths and you may be surprised what it's capable of.
lets stop trolling a good tank the role of the tank is not to die the role of the healer is to keep the tank alive the role of everything else is utility and damage this rule is prime in anything that requires two people dont break rules or you wont progress morphious wont save you in everquest neo
Good. The 'holy trinity' was a concept that needed to die a brutal and ugly death. Even the vestiges that remain are still too strong for my liking, though they are a vast improvement...
While the trinity was a bad idea they need to be careful with how much they blur distinction lines. Tanks should tank... and deal decent-moderate dps. Healers should heal/cure... and deal decent dps if they can. Utility should push up buffs and regen power... and deal moderate dps. DPS should deal heavy dps... and offer some buffs. I think that is what they are going for more nowadays though class skills need to be redone. The old KoS AA, The old dumb-fire spells; these need to be looked at because I know that Warlocks are now hurting because it was "their class thing" to have Spell-Double attack. Now though with SDA and X2 Timewarps, Warlocks have lost some of their defining features as casters and are being out-parsed because of it and not because they lack the knowledge of a proper spell-rotation.
Main issue I find with guardian's is the supreme lack of AEs.. they get fewer AE than crusaders, their ae's do less dmg and as best I can tell they're also on longer reuse timers. The guardian has been known as "the single target tank" WTH is the point of that? That to me seems equivalent of calling them the "special" tank. Cuz the whole single target thing works fine for big raids in which you're pulling one big mob at a time, but in most normal tanking situations AE is a must for tanking and that's one of the main reasons that most people will pick an SK or even a paladin over a guard.
Tbh, I AE-Tank just fine. Reforege for AE Auto-attack and most of the time you are fine. Guards have the strongest hate tools in the game. Yes people will pick Crusaders over Guards were there other tanks to choose for your group... but let's be honest here since when do you see 4-5 tanks LFG at the same time?
THIS, tanks are generally fairly rare, most people don't want to tank a zone, any zone, especially in a pug. The faceroll mentality has broken the idea of pug tanking for most people, you do a bad job, make a bad pull, and people will rip you a new one and broadcast what a piece of **** tank you are. I've been tanking since shortly after launch, and the community has changed significantly since then in regards to pugs and tanking, if you pug, and you can't steam roll it, your a **** tank, if you make a bad pull your a **** tank, if you do anything wrong, your a **** tank, if that wizzy throwing off Eci's Frozen Wrath on pull and dies because of the 3 extra mobs they pulled with it, your a **** tank; but if your a guild mate they might guide and help and be forgiving.
I don't really agree with this. I believe most tanks just don't want to take anymore. There is nothing engaging about it anymore. It's just the same boring routine. It's why I don't pug on my tank. So maybe I am biased.
I can't even get a pug on Freeport. I've always pug tanked and that used to be over half my play time for several expansions. It doesn't worry me if someone in the group starts complaining about my playing. I've played long enough to know if I really did fk up, or if people are just being idiots.
That gets back to Jaccks point. Tanks are rare-er these days and so are other normal Grouping players due to well Heroic not being as worth it as it was during SF/DoV. Skyshrine really started wreaking balance with how easy alot of UD/Sevalak zones were minus HM-Ud and Sevalak himself.
Guardians hold AOE hate just fine. I do not like to pug tank though. I'd rather drag my dick through a mile of broken glass and then jump into a swimming pool filled with rubbing alcohol rather than pug tank. You run into two basic types of people in most pugs these days: complete utter *** hats that think they know more than they do and even less than that. The second is the complete under geared mooch in lvl 10 island gear at lvl 92-95 hoping to leech loots for their alts that they are not even playing on off the run. Some roll need regardless w/o even asking. I do not mind helping a new player/freshly leveled toon but seriously put some basic freaking effort into your set up first. In their bid to attract more players like wow they have attracted the exact wrong type of player to this game. What used to be an enjoyable community is now a mud sling jerry fest show in channel 1-9 that has even spilt over into top tier channel. I miss the more mature player base that used to like going into a new dungeon for the first time and actually trying to figure out what the mobs script intended to do - not just face roll it because it can be face rolled. I like to know why things work in the game. the same can be said about the raiding game. Spoon feed people or they go elsewhere - no desire to work/learn/do.
Guards can hold aoe aggro fine. Its just easier to pull with a crusader or zerk (if you like to roompull). Lack of tanks lfg... Well tbh i dont do PU:s at all on my zerks. Since most of the time you get these other ppl on that arnt doing sh*t for the group. Low dps... just dont know what they are doing and so on... Alt tanks and heroic tanks are rare since there arnt that many that have learned about tanking since there is next to no low lvl grouping going on. There are to many bad tanks out there its like 50/50 on a pug that you get one that works. And most of the time you get one that are just okish.... Thats fine i guess... Also i dont really do much heroic other than farming mounts atm... Since there is nothing to get from them.... Gearing alts you do better with PU raids or solo instances... And lets face it... there is not a singel heroic zone that i think is fun anymore... I miss TsO heroics zone... That is hands down some of the best heroic instances we have had imo. and add to that the gear that droped in there was nice for alts and even some rare items very nice for your mains... I would say no heroic gear is good anymore since the solo instance kinda blew it... Oh its not only the solo gear that is to good... I rolled up a brig under the xp bonus... And the handcrafted lvl 90 gear had insane stats on them...
Yea no doubt... TSO and RoK I think were the best expansions for dungeons and loot. I remember how awesome the RE2 tank cloak was, Guk 1 charm... zones like Necrotic Asylum and Guk 3 were kinda hard and really fun. Only thing that sucked was how bad my class was in TSO.
