The problem with tank pets is that their aggro is far too low to function as a backup tank in group situations. The pet will almost never tank if a melee is alive because a melee's AE taunt is many times greater than our pets ability to taunt single mobs. Second, even if all the melee are dead, its almost certain that the casters were burning mana to keep the melee alive (or make the mob dead), and hence the aggro they generated is far greater than any that a pet can pull off of them. Even most necros, including myself, burn mana on dmg far faster than our pets can generate aggro if we are grouped with melee. The downside of all this is that if something should happen to the MT (be it late heal, AFK, luck of the dice, whatever) virtually everyone in the group, including the necro will be killed by the mob before it would even consider hitting the pet. I am pointing this out, because this is a fundamental problem with tank pets - they dont' offer any tanking ability in most group situatoins. Really, tank pets are pretty much a solo tool when they could be so much more. If pets had equal aggro to a player melee, or even slightly below, then the pets would be good backup tanks, and therefore useful to groups. Perhaps a better fix would be a burst aggro ability on a timer (like plague of rats) that would increase pet aggro when needed, to allow the tank pet to help out in emergencies while still making the ability intermittent enough that groups will prefer having a melee MT. Message Edited by pyrotechnic on 07-10-2005 11:24 PM
Far too low??? try none!! im standing there, whatching my pet beat down a green mob, and when the mob h its 30% or so, itll come jump on me, even tho i did NOTHING AT ALL. there is no agro at all on the pet. do they even get a single taunt skill? i remeber when i had the recruit, that was nice, pet had a special ability that stifled..yes stifled, making it a fear better pet than any ive seen since up to 28. If my necro is gonna be the controller of a pet that cant hold agro from even the simplest of spells, so i cant actually cast all my mighty necro mancer spells (laughs) then can i at least wear heavy armor so i can last more than 5 seconds while the mobs that my pet has dropped to 75% without any damage or heals from me suddenly jumps on me and just about kills me befor ethe pet can finish it off? root you say, root doesnt work...petrify is a 10 sec durattion for a 45 sec casting time, and did any of you know by 28 a shadowknight has a lifetap already?? wheres the necro one, what lvl do they get it, and why does the master of dark magics get one later than a pissant hybrid??
Don't worry yourself about the stars, once you become an active member of the posting community you'll get a one star bandit that'll drop your average rating into the ground. Mine did a full two pages of posts when he disagreed with me... you'll find that every once in a while you're gonna take a one star for no rhyme or reason.
a way i combat this situation is.... stand with your grp aways from the mob or grp of mobs... send the pet after ton to start it... when the mobs come at ya have the tank aeo taunt them to him... if your pet is outa range from him aeo taunt.. hell keep the one busy till your rdy for it.... i've grouped with a conjurer before where using this in our grp we were taking things that before we couldn't... ya just have to have them outa range of the aeo taunts and agro seems fine to me... unless ya over heal or something... only real down side is if it kills your pet it's real hard for the tank to grab the ago thats now on you... hope this helps... looa is my ingame name.. take care
I am generally with you on your statement but...i had a strange thing happen the other night in RV. I was invited to a group where everyone was the same lvl (within one or so) except our tank (grd). We were all lvl 39 or 40 and he was lvl 37. We were fighting lvl 40 mobs and my RT apt 3 was constantly ripping arrgo from the tank, or he was breaking arrgo to the point that th mob was coming after the defiler (healer). The leader requested that I pull with my pet and for the first time with a group, I did. With my pet tanking we abosolutley rocked. The defiler healed and warded my RT and he only lost arrgo once all night. Half way thru we lost our tank and picked up another one, a 39 zerker. I though I would see a differnent situation, maybe the outgoing guy had bad gear or something. Same thing, we continued to have my pet pull and he off tanked. No shield added DPS to our stats. Now if the zerker pulled, my pet couldn't generally pull mob off of him but same thing with him, he couldn't pull him off my pet unless he did an HO taunt. It was a strange night, but at the end I had about 4 other peeps say they are starting a Necromancer. I warned them it is a long hard road But it was the first time I have been used in a group in that copacity. Like I said, strange. Rusttin Blackheart 40th Necromancer Mistmoore
One reasion is Conjuro and Necromancer Tank pets have had a unintentional boost reciently (no more down arrow) which was part of an accedental early revamp release that leaked into live servers, and the devs basical FINALY threw u summoners a bone and let us have these joyfull pets early = ), they do alot more damage than the old down arow pets, therefore keeping aggro better. They still can hardly keep aggro in multi-mob encounters, but they are strong enough to solo most solo single mobs without aid. Now....all of us summoners better start hoping our DPS pet gets "accedentaly" leaked onto live earily lol /hack SOE mainfram /muahaha! Toodles!
Actually the OP is wrong in some sense if you know what to do and do it. A necro tank pet can and will currently tank better then most tank classess when you use BoL/WoW actively durring encounters. Now this cant be done as a conjurer since their buff doesnt work the same. But I am sure this will get changed once the revamp comes and goes.
I Recently learned about the the WoW/BoL trick, and was using it in DFC other day. Still i gotta cast it like 6 times in an encounter just to get pet to off tank a side mob that is in AE taunt range.
Since the pet lost its down arrow my pet tends to pull mobs of the main tank alot if the tank isnt chain taunting since the pet uses its own area taunt and if i use WoW the tank has to use all its power to pull the mob off the pet. Its nice the pet can do this but im sure it pisses off alot of tanks since our pet can do their job pretty easy.
Really, I am not getting the same experiences even using the WoW trick. Tanks who tank in my groups have been about 2 lvls higher than me, but i have found it hard, sometimes impossible to get pet to tank something...even when our MT happens to be a monk or dirge (though they are usuall 3-4 lvls higher). I find that tanks who normally taunt tend to create sufficient agro that usually its jdifficult for pet to get agro on a side mob (using wow trick). If they intentionally taunt less then i don't have any difficulty. Thus, I don't think a tank really has to be "spending all his mana" on taunts to prevent pet from getting agro; rather i have to remind them they actually have to taunt less if they want pet to assist tanking something. Small case study: Did DFC and killed emperor fyst. Emp Fyst was dangerously close to me so i sent pet in and pet aquired first agro. (pet lvl 42 rotting thrall, adept III). Monk, lvl 46 quickly aquires agro from pet (about 2 seconds to aquire agro) Things are going easy, so i decide I want to see if I can force pet to tank, I chain cast WoW about 20-30 times, pet does not steal agro. However, lvl 37 bezerker casually taunting just to be somewhere up on the agro list (in case monk falls) steals agro and dies. Thus, lvl 37 bezerker casually taunting outdid my chain casting WoW taunt on an adept III rotting thrall pet 5 lvls higher than him, with darkbrair, WoW, rending frenzy, opals, and agitation (all adept III or training quality) stacked on the pet. Maybe its not so much the taunting, but other abilities like melee abilities to move up +1 spot on hate list or something that are preventing pet from getting to the top of the agro list, but from this case study, pet was behind both melee the entire fight, even a melee who only was casually taunting and far lower in lvl, while i was doing my darndest to push the pet to #1.
Its true that the tanking skills suck on multiple mob encounters, but with a single mob an adept3 RT is a great tank. My thrall tanks yellow^^ mobs with a full grp of lvl45+. the trick is to let the healers put their tank buffs on the pet. (thanks to chupabras who posted that tip some time ago)
lastnight our mt went LD in Drayeks, after a bit of chaos the Conjuror got Drayek to attack his pet and for a good 10 mins was tanking it with 90-100% HP. was kind of funny at the time. well anyway, after the 10min mt ld he got back in and we recovered and beat the encounter. would be nice if there was a taunt botton to make the pet taunt. the Conjuror gets a pet damage shield so if it gets hit pet does damage each time helping it keep aggro in multi mob pulls, would be nice if necros got something like this. (unless you get one after lvl37(my alt))
What wow/bol trick are you all speaking of? I keep BoL WoW and RF up at all times, on my pet, just curious if there is something I am missing here. Message Edited by KBern on 07-26-2005 10:52 AM
Each time you cast BoL/WoW it increases the hate towrd the pet by 15%. Just having it up doesn't do this so if you recast it several times during the fight it will help keep aggro on your pet.
Also great with groups of mobs to keep them all on your pet while you delicately pick them off one by one
I usually just let my pet pull one of the group, then move over to the mobs one by one drawing agro. I would stand pretty far back to give my pet time and room to gain agro as the mobs are moving towards me. Usually is no problem for even up to 4 linked mobs, but this should help even more.
