Why is this game never mentioned.....

I will say this about EQ2 - It's got me hooked from time to time. I'm a serial MMO player. I've played pretty much every notable MMO ever released. I've got max toons in WoW, AoC, LOTRO, Rift and I've put a good chunk of time into Runes of Magic, FFXIV, TSW, SWTOR, STO, Vanguard and GW2 (and these are just the ones that I've decided were worth my time) over the past 7-8 years.

As a self-proclaimed MMO expert, here's my top 10 list with a brief reason for each:
#1 - LOTRO (This game is simply epic on every level)
#2 - WoW (Funnest MMO out there until you've done everything and jumped on the hamster wheel)
#3 - EQ2 (Relaxing, OCD player's dream)
#4 - AoC (Simply beautiful game world)
#5 - TSW (Unique and fun)
#6 - Rift (This game is probably the most polished and focused MMO I've ever played)
#7 - GW2 (Great casual gamer MMO - personally doesn't appeal to me)
#8 - Vanguard (This game is a technical nightmare - horrible lag, bugs, etc - but it's still worth it)
#9 - FFXIV (Best looking game, interesting mechanics - just had no actual content - can't wait for the re-release)
#10 - Runes of Magic (Probably past it's time now but it was quite enjoyable. Had a lot of deep gameplay mechanics. Really was a WoW clone with less polish but way deeper gameplay. Cash shop killed it for me)

So there, EQ2 has made a top ten list. And I'll guarantee that I've got more/broader MMO experience than 90% of these journalists making top 10 lists on websites that generally speaking just find popular games - then throw one or two in there for controversy to generate more views that have no idea what they're even talking about.

But yeah I do agree with some of the points made on why EQ2 isn't as popular. It's definitely got it's problems and to be honest I've come and gone many times to this game and it's never really pulled me in all the way. There are just some things that really make the experience feel disjointed to me. I enjoy games that take themselves and their world seriously (Age of Conan/LOTRO)
and other games that maybe are a bit out there (WoW) and EQ2 seems to lack identity here. It's not cartoony like WoW but it's also not very serious like LOTRO yet it blends aspects of both designs. Like instead of the lore being focused on plausible scenarios in a alternate universe known as Norrath, it just seems like a mix grab bag of themes with the meta wrapper being 'imagination' - like in one zone you could just picture a classroom of children writing down something imaginative on a piece of paper and having all of their ideas incorporated into the zone. Flying unicorns? Check. Horse that changes colors? Check. Crazy ball-man that throws it's arm at you to attack next to a big area full of half-rat/half-scorpion creatures? Check. Giant flying eyeballs roaming around a woodland area? Check.

Whereas in LOTRO - you might see some wolves hunting around an environment that they would belong in, with some brigands walking the road to mug you.. And then up in an ancient monument some spiders have made their home. You travel to them on a regular horse. It just seems like it COULD be real. I don't get this sense in EQ2 which is why I keep flip flopping on it as my go-to game.

Well, as someone who put countless hours of his life into LoTRO, and experienced pretty much ever aspect that the game had to offer, I disagree with your assessment of the game. It has redeeming qualities, but I could never put it above EQ2, despite its flaws.

I grew up reading the books and sincerely enjoyed them - I still enjoy the lore to this day, which truly inspires imagination. In contrast, the game itself seemed very uninspired to me. Despite being a fan of Lord of the Rings lore, the story within LoTRO did not interest me at all. In fact, it was really a chore to have to progress the main story at all, even on my first character.

LoTRO does not have the endgame content of its competitors, and its PvP is also sorely imbalanced - some classes don't have a chance in PvP at all no matter how well they're played (Captain, I'm lookin' at you). With these elements lacking, the only thing really left is a solid questing experience, which simply isn't there. Questing is the heart of an MMO for me, and I really tried to enjoy it, but starting in the late 30's I just couldn't take it anymore on my first character, and ended up just skirmishing to the endgame. Subsequent characters only made it to the 20's before I skirmished to endgame (only because skirmishing started at 20).

Then when you get to the endgame, there's nothing. Mounted combat is the worst element they've ever put in the game. Last I checked, there were still no endgame raids despite the expansion being released last year, and the raids were promised to be released with the expansion. The few instances they do have are for small groups, and while I'm not against that (I prefer such instances, actually), there is still no real endgame gear. The best they have is the Hytbolt sets which you get from tokens awarded from daily solo quests (and boring ones, I might add).

Even if you do enjoy the lore, I still fail to see how LoTRO made it to the top of your list. I'm not an EQ2 expert by any means and just started playing not long ago, but I've put over 300 hours in the game so far which is enough for a general consensus. Here's how I would compare it to LoTRO:

Story: LoTRO despite being a fantasy game doesn't feel much like fantasy. It might even be just a little too real. Even though I enjoy the lore of Middle Earth, the storyline within LoTRO didn't capture that lore very well, in my opinion. EQ2's lore is disjointed, but overall more interesting (or rather, perhaps more well-executed).

Combat: Depends on what class you play. My first character in LoTRO was a captain. Around Level 70, I had to stop playing him and level up an alt to support him, because unless he is a group, the captain is pretty worthless as designed. The alt I chose was a warden, which is the complete opposite - overpowered to the fiftieth degree. The warden can solo raids on his own (and I have) - the captain can't even solo 3-man content.

Since I've only played one class in EQ2 so far (the Paladin), and it is a tank, I will say that playing this tank is more fun than playing tanks in LoTRO. Healers and DPS - time will tell.

For combat depth, EQ2 and LoTRO are pretty close. Pretty much every modern MMO has dumbed down combat, routinely the same strategies over and over with no need to deviate.

Cost: This has to be mentioned. LoTRO is substantially more expensive than EQ2. The sub is the same cost, but for any player who plans to have more than one toon, shared storage is a must and will put back about $60. Milestone skills are a must for most classes, and that will put you back at least another $20 per toon. LoTRO still charges you for the last (4) expansions, which will set you back anywhere from $100 to $200 depending on how much you're willing to spend at one time. And then you have the 6th inventory bag, which while not essential is still a strong contender that the majority of players will invest it - another $10.

At least the potions in LoTRO are worthwhile. There is no use in health and power pots in EQ2. But there are other ways to regenerate yourself.

I could go on, but this post is long enough as is, and I've probably rambled. It just really surprised me that you pegged LoTRO as epic on every level whereas I cannot think of anything epic at all. At least not anymore.

he's just being himself a Troll. why feed him.

@SentinelBasch

Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on a lot of points. I found mounted combat refreshing (I also played a warden as my main) and the storylines in LOTRO are by and large interesting to me when I take the time to read them. PvMP was also very unique and rewarding for both sides.

They've just released 2 12-man raids and a 6 man raid to complete the instance cluster that was supposed to launch with Rohan as well as scaling a bunch of the older raids to max level.

As far as costs,you can buy all of LOTRO's 3 expansions for $40 when they aren't on sale through steam.And then Rohan (again, when it's not on sale) is $50. So technically you would be paying the same up front costs as EQ2 with the expansion + AoD.
Then the membership fees are cheaper in LOTRO, and have the added benefit of giving you currency that you can use to actually buy future expansions or any other content so that you can continue playing if your membership lapses. I regularly subscribed but through my free allotments, I had actually bought most/all of the content in the game so when my membership DID lapse, I wouldn't even notice for months on end. Whereas in contrast, in EQ2 I am beaten like a red headed step child when my membership lapses. I'm stripped naked and given invasive pop-ups letting me know that I'm a freeloader.

Not to mention that u can actually play LOTRO by grinding with spending little/no actual money. EQ2 just has a barrier that you are forced to pay if you want to play seriously. There truly is no comparison in terms of which has a superior cost/business model.

Although I agree with you that if you play LOTRO with the intention of power leveling via skirmishes, then it doesn't seem too great because you're buying 3 expansion packs worth of content and then not even using it. Then buying Rohan. Honestly though I can recognize that LOTRO isn't for everyone. It gives my girlfriend a headache (just the graphics in the game) and it took me a long time to truly get hooked. But the community kept me involved and I grew a progressively deeper appreciation for the insane amount of detail on every level. Every single area in that game is a work of art and the world is absolutely massive.

Saying that though, it could learn a lot from EQ2 in terms of player housing and character models/animations. I absolutely love how awesome the characters in this game look. LOTRO look like stick-men by comparison. Sorry to go off on another game in this forum but I just wanted to clear up some information.

*ahem* Can I also add that LOTRO uses a 3erd party downloader, if you decide to download the game, EQ2 does not.

For me that's a big point in SOE/EQ2s favor, and one of the many many reasons why I stick with this game.

Well, you can download either game on steam - which is a third party downloader. Although you're probably referring to Pando Media Boost (which a lot of companies use) - and is just a matter of uninstalling it once you've finished downloading the game - assuming you didn't download it through steam. Not arguing that I'd rather not have to deal with it but having to spend 10 seconds going into your programs and features to uninstall a relatively harmless program after the one-time you'll probably download the game in 6+ months isn't a big deal

I know....I guess I'm just paranoid, and I remember when games just use to download via the launcher and nothing else. It took me a very long time to come around and trust Steam, and it may take me even longer to trust Pando, and programs like it.

That's why I am happy that EQ2 is just via the launcher, and I hope it stays that way. For folks like me, it can be a significant factor in what game to choose.

I don't particularly like steam since it forces you to use it. It's DRM and is required to play the games. Not only that, but it logs information about you and seemingly requires a 30 second software update every day. The good thing is that I can download a game like EQ2 in a matter of minutes. Usually companies don't offer that bandwidth through their own service.

But yeah I see your point and I agree. Not sure why companies even use pando.

Yeah, steam is a DRM though they don't seem as bad as EA's Origin currently (then again I am bias against EA as they destroy any series they pickup; Dead Space and Dragon Age come to my mind (DS3 and DA2 were horrible games by comparison to their predecessor). I don't know if Steam will stick with it but they have said if Valve/Steam goes down they will get non DRM versions of the games to the players, something EA has not done.

With cloud gaming moving forward get used to DRM, it probably is not leaving.

I think there are several things that make EQ2 after 9 years still be better than a lot of the stuff currently out:

• Global chat channels - this seems to have been forgotten about in current games - there's hardly any chat in LotRO for instance as there doesnt seem to be a global channel.
• Housing. I've never seen a better housing system in another MMO. The one in LotRO is hilariously poor.
• Guild Houses. DDO has really crud guild housing, LotRO has another poor guild housing system. I've never seen anything close to what EQ2 has to offer.
• Graphics. They still cut the mustard.
• Lore. The Lore in EQ2 is honestly worth playing the game for even in old and unrevamped zones where a normal club is the end loot.
• Remnants of the voice acting present at launch. If you look around there's still some left of the entirely voiced at release game.
• Motion captured animation.

One of my favorite aspects about early EQ2... too bad it is too costly to voice these lines anymore.

I dunno. Maybe they could make it where one could do voiceovers in exchange for a voice credit that one could put on one's resume. I'll add that to my list of things to bring up at SOE Live this year.

@Guffy:

Well, I personally am very against power-leveling, at least for myself. I never rush to the max level of any game. Skirmishing to the endgame was more of a forced choice, because I just couldn't tolerate the questing anymore. Part of the reason was because the speed of the mounts in LoTRO is a joke, and it takes FOREVER to get from one point to another, even on the same map. This was just exacerbated by the fact that unless you rolled a hunter or warden, you were pretty much forced to buy milestone skills (for real money) just to get around or it would cause a great of frustration.

The quests themselves in EQ2 are really not much more exciting, but the execution is much better. But I will say that in Frostfang where I started out, every single quest I performed really made me feel like I was contributing to the safety and growth of a new frontier city and its peoples. Now as I'm progressing I'm finding some quests that are a little kooky, but overall, they still feel more worthwhile than in LoTRO. And they don't take eons to complete.

The mounted combat in LoTRO was dull and completely unchallenging, requiring nothing more than riding around in circles and mashing buttons. None of the mounted foes required any strategy whatsoever. And for the warden, it was especially frustrating because it was like playing a completely different class without gambits. And the mounted skills didn't really reflect the classes at all. Tanks became healers. Support became DPS. Etc.

I'm glad they finally released the raids. They were long overdue, and I'm sure they lost a lot of players in the interim.

OK, let's talk about business models. The rate of Turbine Point gain in LoTRO is very slow. Pretty much it boils down to creating alts if you want to farm it seriously, having time for nothing else, like actually playing the game. And then if you do farm enough to buy expansions or whatever else, what has that accomplished? Less money in the pockets of the developer. Less money to actual make a quality product. How is that a sound business model? If something is providing you with perpetual enjoyment, then you should pay for it. If it stops providing you enjoyment, then you stop paying for it and move on.

And there is absolutely nothing in EQ2's cash shop that you need to play the game. LoTRO's shop is full of stuff that if you do without it's going to make your experience very frustrating, eventually. I spent way, way more money in LoTRO than I will probably ever spend in EQ2.

LoTRO's graphics were not terrible, but they did overuse a lot of the same textures, making each area feel like the area you were just in. I really didn't find them all that special. And the character models in EQ2 are better than LoTRO, hands down. Except beards. SOE needs to work on beards.

Basically, I stayed with LoTRO such a long time because I am such a huge fan of the lore of the books, and I was hoping it would get better. And I made good friends there, and I had a close friend that I played with almost every day. I was expecting it to get better and forcing myself to try to enjoy it. I know I've said a lot of negative things about the game - it has a lot of positives, too, or I wouldn't have stayed so long. But the list of what it does wrong is so much larger than EQ2. I imagine at one time the devs really cared about LoTRO, but it has really fallen low. I guess a lot of people say the same about EQ2 since it was first made. But while EQ2 does have its annoyances, it does have areas where it truly shines. LoTRO does some things well, but nothing truly exceptional. Just my opinion. By the way, I respect your opinion, too - your point of view is well written. I wish I could agree with it - I had lots of fun times there.

@Guy de Alsace

The best housing system I've seen is...Runes of Magic. Yes, it redefined the concept of money pit, but the housekeeper system was exceptional. You could have several of them and they could all provide you with very nice buffs to do all kinds of things - boost stats, raise loot drop rate, and more. It really added a new layer to the game. But I agree with Guffy - the cash shop ruined it for me. Pay money to buy diamonds. Spend diamonds to get rubies. Use rubies to upgrade gear. A never-ending cycle of monetary doom.

I know I would be willing, I have a fair range of voices I can do and am very open to changes if one works with me. If they ever do that sort of thing. I think it's called Crowdsourcing, ya know when you open aspects of the program or product to the consumer/player for modification/work.

VG puts this game to shame, H E L L VG puts every game to shame.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion*.

* However wrong it may be.

Thanks for the response. I'm glad to see that the combat gets a bit more involved in the later levels. I'm still tempted to re-install and try getting to that point, but the more I watch and read, I'm not sure it's something I could ever truly get into. Almost every video I've seen consists of people just clicking (I notice clicking seems far more prevalent in this game than in most others) their abilities as soon as they come off the cooldown - sometimes not even in any particular order. It just doesn't come off as all that thrilling to me.

Add to that, the fact that most people (from what I've read anyway) don't even use the heroic opportunities once they reach the end levels, which is quite disheartening. That was the one mechanic that made the combat a bit more intriguing. It's a shame they didn't build more on it and keep it updated so it would still see some use today. It looks as though it had/has the potential to make the combat considerably more dynamic if they take some time to build on it.

Anyway, I may pop on once in awhile to see how things are going. I really do love just about everything else about this game (which is why I've tried so many times to get involved), but at the end of the day, combat is a fundamentally important thing for me, and if I can't get much enjoyment out of it, it's pretty much a deal breaker.