Why is this game never mentioned.....

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Archaical, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Mardy New Member

    I don't know Plavem and I don't play WoW currently, but I did play WoW for quite a long time before. I have to say something that you may not like to hear. WoW does not need a "Station Cash" system because they put the fluff and content in the game for people to obtain, without making players paying extra money for them. It's amazing that it was just 4-5 years ago when EQ playerbase were against the whole SOE station cash & RMT push. But now players here have gotten so used to spend money to buy fluff & content, that we are seeing station cash used as if it's something good & magical. People sure got desensitized fast.

    Reality is Blizzard has always offered more to their paying subscribers than SOE has ever offered to their customers, except maybe back in early 2000's when Kunark & Velious expansions rocked the genre. In this game (and EQ1) they've made leveling tedious enough that players actually want to buy exp pots. People buy exp pots even during double exp days & during dungeon maker powerleveling, that should tell you something. Where as in WoW you don't need exp pots to level & enjoy the game. In this game (and EQ1) if you want good looking mounts and gear, you often have to get them via station cash. In WoW, they give you all the good looking armor, weapons, mounts, fluff pets, fluff suits, special armor suits, etc.. all within the game for you to obtain without having to spend a dime.

    In WoW, yes their expansions are bi-annually, but Blizzard has always released content via patches in between expansions. Here (and in EQ1) SOE has just started to release "free" content in between expansions, and there aren't much content at that. There's no need for vet rewards in WoW because again, not only does WoW have a working refer-a-friend system that has been in place forever that rewards those playing and referring new players, they put everything you ever want or need in the game as part of the game's content. Here (and in EQ1), the attitude is that you are elite if you have been a long time subscriber, so if you are new, screw you, take a number and hope you play long enough to be as cool and elite as others. And people are sitting here blaming the lack of marketing as to why new players don't stick around?

    I get this whole idea of "I play this game and I don't want to say anything good about any other games", but sometimes I feel people get too far fetched in their criticism of other games while thinking SOE is all peachy and perfect. I've played SOE games longer than any other MMO's combined, counting the time played between EQ1, EQ2, and Planetside 2. So I'm no fanboys of any specific company or games trying to cause trouble here. I'm a core gamer and I play a lot of games, and I'm not afraid to play and enjoy other games and compliment other games even though I may have my loyalties here with SOE. But the playerbase in Everquest franchise always have this attitude that everything else sucks, people don't even bother looking at why games like EQ1 & 2 don't grow much anymore. None of this has to do with advertisement but the playerbase here seems to want to pin point everything on marketing. While totally overlooking anything else that could be the cause of population issues.

    As for your comment about appealing to the lowest common denominator, please don't for one second think SOE does not want a slice of that pie. If SOE could be sitting in Blizzard's shoes, they would. SOE did develop Free Realms yes? SOE did create Planetside 2 which is copies of the more popular Battlefield 3 / CoD type of games rather than the original Planetside yes? SOE did create & revamped EQ2 to be more "mainstream" rather than copied the more niche old school design of EQ1 yes? Let's wait and see how Everquest Next will be like so we can see just exactly whether SOE wants a bigger slice of that pie or not. My guess is, yes, they want a bigger slice, and the games are all changing including EQ1 these days, to be more mainstream and cater to the lowly "common denominator" as you put it.
  2. Mohee Active Member

    I LOL @ 90%+ of the adds on EQ2 sites are WoW adds. :p

    I've even seen SoE Link stuff from the forums to a site with a big fat WoW add in the direct middle of the page :p

    If I ever tell anyone I play EverQuest 2, I never get the "that game is still going?" answer. I always get the " W T F is that?" answer.

    My guess is even EQnext will not be popular or well known, because I highly doubt SoE will advertise it. SoE, you can't rely on word of mouth to make your game popular... I'm sure the game will start off with decent numbers, and then turn into EQ1 & EQ2 all over again. We'll see :)

    I've been playing EQ2 since beta...
    There's a lot of things I like about this game...
    There's a lot of things/changes I don't like...
    Why do I keep paying and playing? Sometimes I really wonder...
    I am an EQ2 addict... I deal with the bad things... and seem to keep doing so no matter how bad it gets.
    Wirewhisker likes this.
  3. Zacatl Coatl New Member

    Fixed that for you.
    Blizzard stealed the Warhammer and Warhammer 40K IPs and made it into a no-brainer (no-) strategy twitch games.
    Blizzard stealed Everquest and made it into a no-brainer twitch game, with fantastic ran-in-circle-and-spam gameplay.

    I want to play a RPG. My characters usually wear plate armors. I don't want to jump and run like a ninja. If my character must dodge an attack, it's his own agility who must be taking into account, not mine. I play MMORPGs for 15 years now, and the only games who deserve the RPG of MMORPG are now EvE online and Everquest 2.
    Twitch gameplay is only good for FPS, driving and fighting games. I'm very happy to see again games like X-Com or Project Eternity. Perhaps it's time to heal the wounds Blizzard made to all my beloved games.
  4. Plavem Active Member

    As I said in multiple other threads, its called boredom. So yeah I am dead serious, and whats worse is the items I stated are 100% true.

    EQ2 failed from the start. EQ1 had most everything right. But the problem with EQ2 and WoW vs EQ1 is EQ1 was a grind fest, most of its people didn't mind grinding and time sinks. The raids were some what fun. There was no PVP ( or very little at all ) EQ1 was all about team work, and working for what you had.

    When WoW released along side of EQ2 people found how easy it was to play WoW, not to mention WoW catered to a different player base, one that included little to no effort to be someone. Not to mention its fairly simple questing system, where one quest led to another quest all the way to max level ( a path they still follow now ). The reason WoW stayed popular is because they had the ability to listen to what the casuals wanted in a game. Not to mention the game was fairly fun. Which is why Rift is doing so well, they cater to the people and keep in touch with the player base.

    The reason EQ2 is not really popular is because it was to different from eq1. EQ2 isn't about working together, its more about relying on other people to be the best you can be. For example in eq1 a wizard was still bad a$$ even if he didn't have an enchanter to cast Tash, or a shaman to cast Malos on a mob, in eq2 not having an illy or a troub almost halves your dps right off the back. In EQ1 classes had signatures. Shamans were known for Malos, Enchanters for KEI, Warriors for tanks, Druids for Kiting, Bards for twisting songs, clerics for healing, monks for pull. I could keep going. I've been playing eq2 on and off since release, and still I don't think I could name all the classes nor have any idea what each class can do, nor do I care to know honestly.

    Thats the last thing I want to mention, what eq2 did to monks is laughable at best. The whole pull system in eq1 is one of the things that made the game so unique, it took skill and hard work to pull Kael. Monks aren't tanks they are dps, they are skilled in the art of survival with fd and mend. It was magical watching 2 monks chain pull to your raid. Killing one mob then only having to wait a couple of seconds for the next.

    Over all games like EQ1 will never again be seen, why? Because people don't want to grind. Honestly people don't want to have to invest anything into a game.

    Its funny when EQ1 was big, the word casual meant you were simply someone who couldn't play as much as hardcore people. Over the past 10-12 years casual slowly became a bad player. With the quote "I pay 15 dollars a month i should see all the content you see regardless how much time either of us spend playing" This statement is so flawed. You are paying 15 dollars a month, to have to access to everything, which you do. Just because you can't find time for it, isn't Sony's problem.

    Lastly I feel the thing that killed MMO's in general is PVP. I love to pvp, but with that being said, it brings the worst out of people. Win or Lose pvp is the most toxic single handed item in any mmo. If you win you boast about it and talk down to your opponents which in turn builds and ego. An ego you shouldn't have because after all in real life you more than likely are still the kid that gets his lunch money taken daily. If you lose you instantly give an excuse about why someone beat you which is followed by more talking poop. That or you get upset because you feel you should of beaten them then cry about how op they are. PVP isn't about working together, pvp is only about killing your enemy. MMO's should be about group and team work.

    The days of camping upper spiders trying to hit max level, or camping Plane of Flame for AA are very much over. The days of mobs having a random spawn rate is over. The days of camping a mob or a group of mobs for bones to enter the top end game dungeon is over. The ability to kill a lvl 2 with a mod rod is over. The days of corpse runs are over. The days of sitting in EC auctions flowing black silk sash is over. The days of dwarfs doing barrel rolls on the occasional jump are over. The days of getting lost in a zone because you have no map is over. The days of avoiding Kithicor forest at night are over. The days of trains in Karnor's Castle is over. The days of having to have your spell book open to get mana is over. The days of having a ranger pull a raid boss are over.

    RIP the real MMO, in a day and age where the children compare mmos to First Person Shooters.....
  5. Vinyard Active Member

    Hi, I play WoW.

    There is too much to do at max level honestly. And not just sitting around in an area jumping in circles (sup guild halls).

    I think you guys are giving advertising way too much credit for WoW's success. It's a phenomenal game,and always has been. That's why its population exploded. People WANTED to tell their friends that they play WoW, and they should play with them. I wouldn't ask my worst enemy to play EQ2...no one deserves that kind of torture.
  6. crazyeyes321 Active Member

    Depends what you call phenomenal I guess.

    WoW benefited from the Warcraft brand being popular with many gamers, so it brought in people that might have originally been against the concept of MMO. WoW advertises the product like nobody's business. WoW also runs on a system with extremely low system spec requirements, so everyone was able to run the game well even when the game first came out and people rarely upgraded computers often. EQ2 was resource intensive, probably still is for what it is. Those three factors are what made WoW what it is.

    Being easy didnt hurt either.
    Wirewhisker likes this.
  7. Kalderon Well-Known Member

    Why then you even bother reading eq2 forums? Don´t get that tbh.
    Wirewhisker and Feara like this.
  8. Plavem Active Member

    Well I would imagine its a lot like me.

    I play eq2 and rift. Rift has eq2 beat in almost every aspet imo. But I still come back to play eq2 just for fun. I guess part of me hopes they change things in eq2 but I know they won't however I do like to keep up to date on whats going on in both games. I guess it is hard to understand.
  9. Smokejumper Developer

    To the OP, we get mentioned all the time. We got tons of coverage last year in many magazines, on a worldwide basis, and even made some fantastic Top 10 Lists. As a matter of fact, last year PC Mag listed as #3 of the Top 10 PC Games of all time. So yeah, I think we've got respect. :)

    This is the best MMO in this niche. It's the deepest, it has the most content, it has the richest variety of game experiences, as well as "top of it's class" in many feature categories. I don't have to prove that. All you have to do is watch our player histories while working here for a while. Players leave to try new games, but they almost *always* come back.


    Because "new" != "better" in the world of MMOs. A successful and mature MMO is *always* deeper and richer than any new experience. At least until those newer experiences stop just simply cloning what has come before.
    Xillean, Dejoblue, Tylia and 7 others like this.
  10. Plavem Active Member

    To your first statement, making the top 10 of any mmo list isn't a huge accomplishment, not many big MMO's are out there. Aion, Rift, World of Warcraft, Everquest, Everquest 2, Starwars the Old Republic are about the only MMO's worth even mentioning. Good job.

    Your second statement, as I stated early in this thread. You have the most useless content there is. And if they almost always come back then why have you constantly merged servers? Seriously who are you kidding with your reply. Rift has just as much to offer as you guys do, and if I had to bet money they have more subs then you guys. Scott Hartsman actually cares. I messaged him on facebook regarding rift, and he replied and helped me a ton. Sony barely responds to any thread involving their company.

    Lastly successful has many meaning. I am sure you mean profitable. Which I would imagine EQ2 is. People spend money to buy items on the station store meanwhile, your crafters get the shaft, everything we can make looks worse than the stuff on the ah.
    Or do you mean successful like the dungeon finder? Where people used it but it never worked like it was designed to.

    I know me saying these things are more than lifely very hurtful. Im sure you but quite a bit of pride into the game being a dev. and all. But maybe you should sit back look at the game and figure out what you can do to make it more like EQ1, Rift and World of Warcraft then in my opinion you would have a successful game. Instead of a slowly dying game with very very few new subs coming in.
    Teoo likes this.
  11. Avirodar Well-Known Member

    Not bad. Unfortunately, the EQ franchise fell off the list in 2013.

    I am curious as to what is used to determine that most people who go to try another game, come back? From personal experience I have seen a good mix. Some go and stay gone, others return. EQ2 does have a lot to offer, it just seems like the code, servers, and size of the Dev team inhibit what could be an even better game.

    I would hope so. It would be a bad sign for an 8+ year old MMO, if another company could release a brand new MMO, with deeper and richer content from day one.
    Wirewhisker likes this.
  12. Ardur Duradan Well-Known Member

    all you have done is added new stuff, you havent refined ANYTHING! your statement is only a statement defining the surface of eq2, and quite frankly its why you dont understand your playerbase in my opinion. New only = better when its fine tuned and prepared for every situation, and this is where eq1, eq2, and probably eqnext will fail. You guys just throw the kitchen sink at us, never even think about if the sink itself works right. You always have so much dissent from your player base, and thats a thing you cant risk with a niche based market here since what we want out of our gaming experience is a bit more defined than the generic "mainstream" MMO. New doesnt always mean better, things that work are better, things that are fun are better, I would gladly take the developers refining current in game assets over them developing the "next big thing" that oddly only takes a few months in development. Great new things take a long time to get right, and thats what you guys are missing, a refining process. So please, i am begging you man to really make this a better game by improving whats currently part of it and unfinished.
  13. Salavar Active Member

    This is NOT a complex game!
  14. Salavar Active Member

    EQ1 has far more content than EQ2 by a huge margin to use your words.
  15. Archaical Active Member

    Thank you for the response SJ. You make a very good point. To the people that keep bringing up and talking about WoW, stop that. WoW is not the only other game out there. Don't know why people always jump right to that. I was not asking why this game is not as popular as WoW, I was asking why it is not as popular as the numerous other MMO's that don't compete anywhere near WoW either.
  16. Regolas Well-Known Member


    I think you have a great game. I love it. But I've only ever played EQ1 and EQ2, so I have no comparisons.

    I would like to know why you think WoW got 10 million plus subscribers while EQ2 did not.

    I would estimate there is less than 50k subscribers on EQ2, although I obviously don't have any hard facts. At its peak, maybe a few million, although I doubt it.

    I think a lot of MMO players, particularly older ones, only have time for one game to invest in. Especially one you can play every day. As a result, they find one that hooks them in and stay there for a long time. Their characters are an investment they won't give up unless really pushed.

    If EQ2 had got half of the people that ended up trying WoW because they saw the TV ads and spotted a box in their gaming store, I'm sure the vast majority would have stayed with EQ2 and never tried WoW (like me). I like EQ2, have invested in it, and have no time for other games. So EQ2 is all I play.
  17. Mohee Active Member

    Ho Dam! SJ just told all you trolls wazzup!!! ROFL
  18. Atan Well-Known Member

    The fact that the game runs like a dog on my wifes 6 core cpu, 16 gigs of ram, SSD Drives, and 660 GTX video card system is a pretty good reason why its not ever mentioned highly.
  19. Taysa Well-Known Member

    WoW started from the get go with a large population, and a good majority of that population had never played the previous Warcraft games, or even heard of them.

    Why do you suppose that is?

    Salavar and Wirewhisker like this.
  20. Mardy New Member

    It's the people that blame the lack of population on ads and marketing that keeps bringing up WoW, because they think marketing is the reason why EQ2 isn't up there or get mentioned often. They want to say WoW is only #1 because Blizzard advertised. While I've used several examples already, including Warhammer Online and Age of Conan, two games that advertised heavily. WAR's budget was over $100mil and it even had TV ads. But yet that game nose dived after 6 months. Rift also ran a lot of online ads, but that game isn't exactly doing well now either.

    It's not the TV ads or marketing that keeps people around or keep them coming back. It's the gameplay itself. Plenty of gamers have already tried EQ1 and EQ2, plenty of them have moved on, some came back. SOE did an ad campaign when EQ2 went F2P, it was very successful according to Smed. But now a year or two later, people are complaining about a lack of population on some servers. So you have to ask the reasons why, and you have to look beyond marketing and ads. Because it truly is beyond marketing, you have to ask why people aren't sticking around, why people aren't leveling to endgame to raid, why people aren't staying long after reaching endgame, etc..

    I've already mentioned some of the reasons I think that causes players to either not stay long, or stay away from this game. On average it cost a lot more money to play this game than other games, even the newest releases. Times are hard still and people have to scale back. Many will simply gravitate towards games that only requires 1 account to play all there is the game has to offer, and they won't have to worry about wanting to spend extra cash on top of their subscriptions for fluff, content, and better looking gear/mounts/pets/items.

    Someone above mentioned that lag can be bad in this game, and I can attest to that. My g/f has difficulties running this game smoothly and she has already given up trying to raid. No raid, and there goes a large chunk of endgame content. Accessibility is possibly one of the top 3 reasons why WoW has these many players, or why some other AAA games have many players.

    I've mentioned lack of PvP content, and how combat feels clunky in this game so PvP isn't fun, nor is it balanced. PvP in newer generation MMO's make up a big chunk of endgame content. Like it or not, a lot of gamers today want to have a bit of PvP fun here and there. The Everquest playerbase however (both EQ1 & EQ2), have always been against PvP and people aren't afraid to speak up against it. But yet most newer AAA MMO's coming out have PvP content & options. Heck even EQ Next will launch with PvP ready, which is a switch for SOE.

    I've mentioned leveling can still feel tedious. When you have people wanting to buy 100%+ exp potions even during double exp days, or during powerleveling "methods" like dungeon maker just a month ago, you know leveling probably feels tedious to average players trying to start out from scratch on their own. There are lower level players trying to group, I see it every so often someone level 20'sh or 50'ish wanting to group and help with leveling. Without a cross server dungeon finder, chances are these lower level players will never find a group because some servers truly are low populated. See Blizzard knew this would happen to some of their servers, even though they have the largest population out there, they know this would become an issue. So they created cross-server dungeon finders so people would have no issues finding groups for instances. The lack of such feature in this game hurts it.

    There are other things, but trying to get the playerbase talk about what this game needs is hard. Because some players simply can't find anything wrong with this game. Which, they are right, since they like this game, it doesn't really matter if others don't or new players don't join up or stick around for long. Also you have a differences of a definition of "success". To SOE, if they make money, it's a success. And I have no doubt EQ1 & EQ2 are both cash cows for SOE. But to the players that play these games, success means they get to have people to play with, that their guild actually can recruit enough players to raid, that their server is populated enough to run dungeon instances without having to LFG for too long, that they have enough content to keep them busy and having fun, etc.. Two different definitions, I guess it's all subjective.