Why I think RoK factioning is basically unfair to pure crafters.

And yes, I think having an alternative to the crafting side to allow them to make more faction in similar fashion to the delivery or harvesting style quests makes a lot of sense. Take more risk by harvesting in an aggro zone you should get more faction rewarded.

Good idea.

This thread is one of my grouches with doing the RoK writs.

Yes, it started out with 250 faction per writ and was changed, after many voices, to 750.

I've done the math. 93 writs each faction, 279 for all three, multiply that by how many crafters you have to slog all that.

If faction was higher, it'd be bearable, I'd think. Why can't it be? The crafter has to put in a huge time sink, larger than the adventurer.

I've brought this up before. The crafter must pay 2p per crafter if they go with just the writs for their subclass (Provie, Sage, etc.). The crafter must pay 6p per crafter if they go with all the writs for their class (Scholar, Outfitter) or 7p if a Craftsman. Again multiply that by how many crafters you have.

Where do I get these numbers? Fuels cost 2p for Scholar, Outfitter, Craftsman except for Provisioner which are 1p. Scholar and Outfitter need three types of fuels (incense, coal, candle), 6p. Craftsman need four (kindling, sandpaper, filament, coal), 7p.

Not every crafter has that type of coin.

Writs pay 33g. 30 of that is for fuels, 3g for their time. Yes, it adds up and can be sitting with a goodly amount...but when you go back and buy your fuels, not to mention raws if that's a factor, much of that is gone.

Adventurers are paid 5-9g min upwards to 11-22g with variations. Add to that the no-trade items that are either used or sold back, whatever loot drops, body parts from mobs. Some of those body parts can be hefty pay outs such as 17g or 24g.

Adventurers have to pay for rares or go harvest their own, pay to have what they need made. But from what I've seen myself and read/heard from others, what RoK has in quest rewards and loot, they make enough to pay and have much left over.

I've made more coin with my adventurer doing faction than I do with my crafter doing faction.

Adventurers have it easier...in a way, yes. They gain faction going down their normal course of gameplay. Crafters have such a huge time sink, be it for one or several crafters. On the flip side, I've seen adventurers complain, in server chat and forums, how it's a time sink for the quests.

The more I look at this, the more it just honestly seems stacked against the crafter.

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

Harvesting wouldn't work well. Not everyone has their crafter's harvesting maxed to 400. Some have adventure toons who do the harvesting for their crafters.

But as I said rambled over in a thread I started, http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=409750 , it'd be great to have crafting and delivery type quests.

It's already in game, the two quests to gain non-aggro status with Bathezid, Riliss, and Danak.

I just wish something similar had been implemented for the amount of faction you need instead of going the same old rout of writ grinding.

I would have to follow the sentiment of other here in that I would prefer it the way it is than 2 different factions. I have all 9 craft classes and only 3 of them are adventurers also. I'm just glad the grind is not needed on those 3 characters.

If it wasn't a case of grinding 100's of writs to get faction then sure you can have 2 diff factions, but when one way gets you several thousand faction and the other a couple of hundred at best then which are you going to choose.

If the second faction for crafting had quests that didn't involve mindnumbingly sitting at a machine do the same ol' same ol' then I'm all for it. Something like the new lands, new profits quest line just proves that it can be done. Just please no more writs!!!

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

You get 33g and change back.

30g for fuels, 3g over as payment for your time. That's for all the writs.

Pheep@Unrest wrote:

This more or less sums up the arguments that were made in a few previous threads MONTHS ago.
Honestly, where were all of you people back then? If you'd like to see a few of the other proposed solutions feel free to dig around a little and find a thread all about this topic or two.

TheLopper wrote:

This misses the point entirely. We fully understand we can go out and adventure and do the adventure quests. In fact, we have done so. Hasn't that been stated repeatedly? I am a: 74 Guardian, 77 Illusionist, 80 Carpenter, 80 Provisioner, 52 Woodworker, etc...

No one has asked for tradeskillers to be handed the rewards. I've not seen that asked once on these forums. However; the writs are ridiculous.

Those who turn this simple request to try to level the playing field and not turn tradeskilling into a borefest into this stupid argument over who deserves it more are completely not understanding the issue and are missing the point 100%.

Sidori@Crushbone wrote:

Heh - that's something I've been wondering about with the Qeynos/Freeport faction writs. Except there, it's the other way around - it's far easier to gain crafting faction than adventuring faction.

I haven't gotten to the Kunark stuff yet, but I'm interested to see if it's as effin' tedious as the original writs. I don't know, maybe I'm just from a different gaming background, but having to spend a ludicrous amount of time doing the same thing over and over and over... not my idea of fun. Challenges are good, tedium is bad!

Xanzibar@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Exactly.

Xanzibar@Antonia Bayle wrote:

No, it's not. By the time you do all the quest lines in (Riliss, Bathezid's, Danak etc) jarsath/fens/terens you're pretty much at 50k. It's more a reverse situation there. It's not done by writs on the adventure side, just questing (most giving 1000+ faction. On the tradeskill side it's writs only (750+ faction a pop) minus the few intro quests from terens that just give enough so your not KOS.

As far as writ grinding for the city factions in Kunark same old....

Let's put this in perspective:

Would you be satisfied with the faction grind for an adventurer if your quest was to go kill 20 Sabertooth's and return to the faction quest giver.

67 Times.

Per camp?

Considering the number of people that DON'T to the Burynai faction quest where you have to go harvest snakes in the field of bone over and over and over, I would imagine most adventurers (Myself included) don't enjoy that form of game play.

I'm groaning for my non adventureers and my 71 brig/carpenter who I don't have the time to play at all. It is going to take a very long time to get my 3 who i don't play much up in faction, even my 3 80/near 80s have a LOT of faction work to do in at least one place.

Qandor wrote:

FOR free?????? time effort to level a character to 70 something so it can do the quests. Your logic is the same as the person that wants an adept 3 made for a 5c tip because it only takes 60 seconds and ignores the hours harvesting and grinding to get to 80.
Doing the 280 writs or leveling a character and doing quests in the process are two alternate paths. I have had all three, 75/80 jewler that walked in with the bath faction to do the epic. 74/9 fury that had to grind the Bathezed quests to get the 40k faction for the armor and a 20/80 provisioner that ground writs for faction for the epic.
All of them take time all of them are an effort what the current system gives you is choice.
What you are say ing is i want choice taken away from other people because i think what they are doing is easy.If its so easy go out and get some adventure levels dont tell other people that they cant do what they chose. This is a nicley wored version of the icant solo85 heoics but wizards can nerf them.

Qandor wrote:

I totally agree with you. The faction awarded for crafting is an insult to crafters, both in Qeynos by the Ironforge Exchange and in ROK. Probably in Freeport too. I have leveled two adventurers up to Danak and Rilis allies. They are crafters too, so they are home free. I bought their nice new spells today. (Of course, getting the rare is another story altogether. The recipes might as well have been left out of the game and the items made drops. No one will get anything out of crafting them. Oh well, should mere crafters aspire to using the items they create? Wear silk, go to a ball?)
But back to my agreeing with you. I am leveling an armorer doing writs. Poor armorer hasn't enough recipes to level up any other way. It is going to take me 40 weeks giving her one day of crafting a week, which is all she can do and maintain her vitality.

Nolus@Antonia Bayle wrote:

True, the city writs in Kunark are the same old "kill x mob".

However, the mobs you need are the same that you need many times as you go thru your normal questing from Kylong, Fens, Kunzar, Jarsath. I, my spouse, and guildee who are in Kunark grab a bunch of writs from Dreg's, run off and do our questing for the night. Our writs tick down pretty fast. Since my main is a Warden, it's just a few moments to portal back to Kylong, evac down to docks, grab another bunch, then sokokar back to Jarsath.

Or we'll grab a batch, run amok doing the writs. The mobs are usually by each other so it's an easy circuit to make.

greenmantle wrote:

Yes for FREE. Your crafter side gets their faction crafting recipes for FREE. Let me spell it out once again if you are having trouble understanding the concept. Let's say I have 2 toons. a level 80 crafter and a level 80 adaventurer. I will have to do all the faction quests on my adventurer to get him to 80. That was the only viable path to leveling in RoK. I will get the added bonus of free crafting faction recipes but I can't use them, the toon is only an adventurer in this scenario. Now with my level 80 crafter I have to grind 280 writs to get those same recipes.
Now let's take another character. He has level 80 adventure and level 80 crafter on the same toon. He follows the adventure quest lines and levels to 80 adventure and low and behold his crafter is automatically good to go for faction recipes.
In both cases the account holder involved, leveled a toon to 80 adventure and leveled a toon to 80 crafter. However, the account holder that happened to put them on the same toon gets a free ride for his crafter side. Why? What has he done to deserve this perk? What makes him so special? He hasn't expended one iota of energy more than the player who split his toons but he saves himself 280 writs worth of grinding.
Now please do not come back with the sorry retort that player A could have done both on one toon also. There was nothing to indicate prior to RoK, that combined adventurer/crafters would be given a big leg up in crafting to this degree. That aside, the concept of equal reward for equal work comes to mind and in this case the work load is far from equal.
I know those 280 writs scares you. Scares me too and in fact I will not do them but that doesn't mean I deserve the same reward as someone who does do them. Hopefully in future expansions this issue will be addressed. If you want the benefits of two spheres you will have to work for the rewards in both those spheres. One sphere should not give you both. That is the only way that makes sense.

I'm glad there's an alternative to grinding yet more writs with each faction.

And as an adventurer I've gained access to those rewards by helping the faction as a whole.

I haven't "done nothing". I did quests.

And I did quests that, on the whole, I enjoyed doing.

I'm not a masochist. I won't play a game I don't enjoy.

Qandor wrote:

QFE.
Perfectly put. Could be said louder but hardly clearer.

The way RoK faction is gained by adventurers does need to be changed. The way it is set up now, crafters are at a severe disadvantage. I do not think there needs to be two separate factions, one for adventurers and one for crafters. The only thing that needs to be done is to remove the faction bonus from adventure quests and make adventure writs that give faction at a lower rate not to trivialize content.
I can understand why people would be angry about the idea of having more factions to deal with in RoK. There is too many of them as it is. I thought the old world was bad with the fighter, mage, scout, priest, and crafter factions.
Writs for both sides would solve the problem of one side having an advantage over the other. It also gives the high level adventurer/crafter a choice on how to gain faction in the new lands.

Qandor wrote:

Again with the schizophrenia.

The three factions offer both crafting rewards and adventuring rewards for gaining high faction status with them. What does it matter how any given character achieved that faction? Whether the character used his/her high-level tradeskills to help out the factions, or if he/she used his/her high-level adventuring skills to help out, he/she still helped out and still gained enough faction to be considered an ally. Should those factions look at this character and say "Oh, I've got all these crafting rewards you could use but you helped us out by killing things instead, so I can't let you buy them"? That doesn't make sense.

You seem to be viewing an individual character as two characters, a crafter and an adventurer. That's not how it works; it's still one character, with one surname and one pool of hitpoints and one alignment and one set of alliances and enemies. When a faction likes you, they give you stuff (or let you buy stuff, actually). They don't say "Hey, we love your adventurer 'side' but hate your crafter 'side', so you can only buy adventuring equipment."


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