Ok look, people are too much into whether we 'zerkers ought to be "pure dps" or "tank" class. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] man? From level 1 -20 we've been tanks, now we're gonna change and go full on DPS while the guardian remains, unchallenged as the world greatest tank??? I'll be honest, I am kinda pissed at the belief that the only person reliable to tank (especially raid mobs) is a guardian... And if that is true then we as berserkers are the most worthless class out there. If we can't tank, and can't nuke for over 1k damage [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good do we bring to a fight? Well, it's a good thing the majority of people are wrong because we ARE good tanks and we will rip an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] open or two. It's this blend that makes us unique and completely kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. We may not be the ultra tank, but the difference is nominal, you gotta ask yourself how much is that little bit of mitigation worth? Probably just as much as our ability to go completely ape[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. Personally, I feel our class is perfect! When I played I hadn't read the manual really at all, I just knew what my RL friend would tell me. I chose fighter because, Hell I wanna fight stuff! I chose warrior because on the class hallmark you're told a warrior is someone who LIVES for the heat of battle! You're right there on the front lines protecting comrades and maruading junk. Totally soldme on that! And then when it became time to choose whether I wanted to sacrifice a little offense to improve my defense or vice versa.... Well, you know what I picked. Berserkers kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], deal with it...
I 100% ageee. Berserkers are extremeley powerful and do, as you put it, kick expletive. And sony 100% agrees too, as they really do intend to 'deal with it'.
I'm totally aggree!! I'm really don't understand why there'r still a posts like MrDizzi's one!!! It's really silly. SoE said at the begin what Zerk are.... They'r tank with some offencive buffs ...NOT DPS CLASS
Errrr.. because many berserkers are saying they consider themselves a dps class. Because I thought considering a different option might be helpful. Yeah, your'e right, silly me.
Bah. Don't pretend that you have any idea exactly how SOE will change the berserker class. You're crying nerf before any changes have been made. Why are you trying to scare people away from this class? If something is too powerful, I'm sure it will be fixed. Overall, I'd wager the berserker class will be one with some of the fewest changes. We only have general ideas of what will come. The changes will hit the test servers first. Let's just wait and see what happens there before giving in to FUD.
I can admit that berserkers in their current state are a tad overpowered ( i can hit 200-280 dps on raids consistent with a Royal Great Flail ) ..... That needs to be adjusted ... My only worry is will SoE truly give 4 plate tanks a viable group and or raid tank role post combat changes... Thou i never intended to be a raid MT when i made a zerker.... i still cant accept that fact that a guards lvl 50 AE taunt is 150+ threat more then mine at app1 while mine is adept 3 ( good thing they cant use it currently on ^^^ targets but they still have taunting assualt and their lower tier AE taunt ) Also our group DD AE stun needs to have threat added to it so that the other half of the warrior tree has the same compareable AE taunting ability like guardians ( meaning instead of only having one AE taunt we will have 2 like Guardians ) Those are my prime concerns
I read it. I understood the 'deal with it' line. I wasn't impressed (but you can keep patting yourself on the back). Now, it's your turn. Read all the replies you have been given, then look closely at your posts and try to tell me they're not flamebait. To many people see the words 'combat revamp' and then say "it's about time those zerkers got nerfed". When a ranger can solo a ^^ that cons yellow (but they complain it takes a long time), it's not the zerker class that needs to be nerfed. Sure, DPS will be lowered. How much? 2%? 10% 15%? The point of my post was that none of the players really know. It's a shame you missed that.
Original manual states Zerker as a tank class with more dps then other tanks. Thats why Zerkers arent DPS and thats why im tired of hearing people whine over this issue. If they could actually read they would understand their class, but they dont so they think they are something they are not. And all those who think Zerker should be dps, dont know the word balance or fair.
UUX, sorry man but youre totally misunderstanding me. The 'deal with it' comment was in responce to someone commanding me 'to deal with it' as if I had a problem with berserkers because they were so 'awesome'. I was trying (humourously) to point out that its sony that have the problem with berserker power, not me. I dont care what sony do to berserkers specifically as long as they have balance across the classes. Obviously my humour was a little too vague My post was simply suggesting that perhaps there are more than one way to deal with the beserker issue than simply removing their dps. Some berserkers seemed to identify DPS as their main role, and I was wondering if that was an option (as it fits the typical image of one anyway). Then some berserkers spoke out and identified the class of their choice as a tank (as per the manual) so i then suggested perhaps it was an option that berserkers could choose which role they see themselves as. Its called a discussion. I came up with an idea. Some people didnt like it. I came up with another. I was just throwing ideas around here. And I am totally baffed as to what is 'flamebait' in any of my posts. I genuinely thought perhaps some people might enjoy sharing ideas. After all, how else would sony know what the players felt about the game otherwise?
No, I understood your humor. Really. Just struck a nerve is all. No worries. What is the "berserker issue"? Do you feel they are over powered? Why? Some DPS parser said so? Can you name the combat arts that are over powered? What combat art does a parser state is doing the most damage? My entire point of even contributing to this thread was to point out that none of this has been mentioned in any official discussion of the combat revamp. Berserkers haven't been the focus of any of it. Sure, maybe fighter DPS has to be lowered some to strike balance across the classes. I'm willing to bet that the difference isn't going to be as large as some would like to think. As for a pure DPS class, what would this be? An axe wielding bruiser? Can it be a trade off with armor, agi, and avoidance penalties? An encumberance penalty for those carrying two sets of armor around? As I tried to state before as well, without a whole new line of CAs, you still couldn't come close to the DPS of a scout. A lot of DPS comes from tanking. Without the mitigation, that will not work so well.
<i> What is the "berserker issue"? Do you feel they are over powered? Why? </i> Actually no I dont. And to be honest from my perspective their is no berserker issue. What there is is an identity issue amongst some of the dps classes. Especially the less DPS capable DPS classes Myself for example I have 3 chars. A tank, a healer and a DPS. With my tank and healer I have a definate sense of identity. A role within group. My healer cant solo very well but is very desirable for groups/raids. My tank can solo superbly and is desirable for groups (and I guess once I hit 50 perhaps raids too). Now my main happens to be neither or these. My main (the char with the most hours played) is my favourite character. He is stylish, sexy and looks good in leather. Unfortunately he is a swashbuckler. And the thing that defines the swashbukler is currenty DPS. Now personally I think what defines a swashbuckler should be his 'utility'. The sneak, track, lock picking and scouting kind of thing. Now i know, sneak is sometimes useful when alone and getting to a group, and tracking is sometimes useful when looking for a specific named. But for 99.9% of the groups you join its one step removed from fluff. We can argue about that if you want, I have a thread in the combat boards on the subject (big surprise?). But otherwise I ask you to believe me when I tell you that utilities such as group sneak and tracking have never ever once ever gotten me a group invite. Not ever They dont help me solo either. Now they could revamp the game to have random spawn spots, locked chests and a host of other things that would make people say "Hey we need a scout", but lets face it that would end up with a million posts of people being 'slapped in the face' and predicting the end of EQ2 just like they did when attunable gear was added. I personally think people would get over it and just adapt to the new 'need' for utility within a group and start making groups that contained Tank/Healer/DPS & Utility. Solo people would whine about locked chests making some of the loot unattainable, but after a few weeks they would get used to this and it would become a norm. Scouts might solo less efficienly but they would get slightly more of the loot they actually drop. Balance. Sony think otherwise (as do many if not most here) and seem to be heading down the path of making scouts and mages into DPS classes, fighters into tanks and priests into healer: Sticking with the current Tank/Healer/DPS formula. Their hope seems to be that people will need rogues for their DPS more if they nerf fighter dps. So whats my view? Personally they should leave berserkers as they are and make utility a 'need' rather than something u may use once every ten levels. And even if they choose not to change utility I have no wish to see berserkers 'reduced'. It doesnt help and I think making them slightly more offensive guardians is a bad idea. Berserkers are not overpowered. Rogues are just in an identity limbo. Within the confines of the current EQ2 group dynamic, rogues are berserkers without the ability to tank and slightly better clothes sense. What they really should do is 'fix' the game, not fix berserkers. But we all know they wont. They have already stated this new 'DPS hierarchy' vision of theirs. But let me ask you this: How would you deal with the balance of classes right now? How would you encourage people to stop retiring scouts and starting fighters?
The scouts in my guild are doing just fine actually, they have a role, and it's DPS. I've had group members parse the zerkers verus warlocks verus wizards verus swashbucklers verus assasians etc. All of those are able to out dmg a zerker on a sustained basis. Sure we come high, and even out do some of them some of the time but it's all situational. If we choose we can dump all our power into our abilites and maybe beat out some of the pure DPS's out there. But while they will have plenty of power for the next fight we'll be left needing to regen soo the next fight it will be vastly different Unless they wait until everyone is FP again...which just dosn't make much since. The game is still in it's infancy, and as such we should expect changes to come down the pipe line (remember we are dealing with SOE). To imply they are clueless though is a little harsh, after all these are the same people that have the number 1 running MMO currently on the market....eq1. That's fast changing but if you do some research you'll find that eq1 still makes up most of the market. You don't sustaine a 6+ year game without having some clue, and you wouldn't NOT take what you learned from one game and apply it to the new game. To answer your questions though do some research.....the berserkers of old was not some profession that people elected to get into like tax advisors or something. Berserkers was what people applied to the really fearsome fighters that terrified people because anytime they got into battle they would be overcome with bloodlust, killing everyone around them. The comment about them being bare chested while correct to a point but in the end is also a mistake. They was bare chested most the time cause everyone else was bare chested most the time...you was considered wealthy if you had hardened leather for armor...royalty if you had plate. They also tended to use the heavier weapons because they were stronger than most...when they raged mundane things like the weight of a weapon meant little to them, they just wielded whatever would do the most dmg...so they could move onto the next person. They also was able to take a beating, cause when they was raging you would pretty much have to hack someone who was a berserker into pieces before they would stop coming at you
Im sorry but what youre saying is you can outdps a scout if you unload power into your combat arts? Thats the same for me. If I dont use combat arts my dps will be below a coercers Of all 3 characters I have my swashy is the one that uses the most power per fight.
First of all, I wanna say that I don't understand why some non-zerkers feel the need to come on our board and start crap with us and try to tell us what they think our class should be like (which is something totally different from what it is and what we want it to be). As if we care what they think. I also agree with the people who are somewhat confused by the fact that scouts are or are considered to be a dps class and nothing more. Take the swash for example since it was mentioned here...I have found myself actively seeking out those from the rogue class (swash and brig) to group with every single time I do just about anything in Lavastorm, especially Solusek's Eye, just because of their group invis. Lately I've found myself having to make do with either a level 50 fury or wizard's invis which isn't nearly as reliable (certain mobs tend to see through it, but not always, so you just never really know with them whereas with a rouge class's group invis I have found it 100% reliable in very circumstance and prefer it even though it slows movement speed). So generally I will not step foot into SE or any other tough place like that where I want or need to avoid mobs in without some kind of invis, and like I said I prefer a rouge's over anyone else's. So that alone makes them very important IMO, and that, of course, not all they can do. And we all know that bard's get all sorts of uber group buffs and that's what makes them desirable to me, not their dps. And let's not forget good old track...I don't understand why some scouts might feel that this is a usless skill except under very specific circumstances...most of the quests you do in this game require the killing of some specific named mob or type of mob and unless you either already know exactly where it is offhand, have it marked on a map of the area, or have the exact loc of the thing from ogaming or something then you're pretty much screwed unless you have a scout with you as I see it. And even if you have all of those other things, having a scout with you still makes it easier. Not to mention the ability to disarm traps on chests...that might seem trivial to some people, especially since it seems like they took away the ability of any trap to actually kill you, but still...I will never touch a chest when I have a scout with me. So all in all, I think that all the scout classes are pretty uber in their own ways. Ranger especailly seems very popular and is well known as being one of the best soloing classes in the game, if not the best (next to zerkers of course ). There is no reason for them to be jealous of or resent us in any way or feel like we are "less powerful" than us just because we can tank and they can't...there's plenty of other things they can do that we would never even dream of being able to do. So yeah, like someone else said...get over it! Be happy with what you got or reroll another toon and quit trying to get other people's classes nerfed. Message Edited by infernus006 on 08-16-2005 03:37 PM
i didnt bother to read everything of the topic just the first part but it gave me a general idea, you say zerkers need to be able to choose between tanking and dps, we got that choice; at level 18 when you did your subclass, berserkers will wreck havoc on the battlefield destroying anything in their path while guardians will stand and wait for backup to arrive, i chose to wreck mayen now im being turned into a tank, at least get the goddamn quest description right if your going to do things that way. still i believe i want to see how my dps will get nerfed, if i go allout on damage i can steal hate off any tank as a 46 zerker froglok, no problem. if the dps nerf will cut me down to less than 150 a second ill accept but if you go below 100 a second with fabled weapons you can stick it right up your rear
I am gonna explain my mentality for choosing a zerker to dps, and then my solution to the coming lack of dps. I came from EQ1 as a Rogue, i liked doing DPS, I then played a Thief naturally in FFXI, but originally wanted to be a Dark Knight for there DPS, reading I learned one should be a thief first, this worked perfectly, and I eventually did become a Dark Knight/Thief, super DPS. Coming into EQ2 I wanted to be like the Dark Knight from FFXI, high DPS using very destructive (but not nessacarily fast, meaning 2H) weapons augmented by abilities and magic. I looked at the SK here, it looked good, but it was evil, and my EQ1 guild (which i was joining) was good, back then being evil in a good guild was bad, so I looked for an alternative. I liked my Dark Knight, and didn't wanna be a scout, so I saw Berzerker and was sold on the high damage warrior as thou it was what I was looking for. And it was all I ever wanted, but that is going away now, and SoE isn't going to listen to us on this issue. My solution: to me, zerker is dead, I personally can't accept the role of tank, maybe I am doing fine as a tank, but whenever I do I feel like I am gimped and failing everyone in some way everytime I die. Perhaps it is a psychological problem, but I was happy with my zerker, now I am not. This is why I choose the next closest thing to a "mythological berserker" and rerolled as a scout to be Brigand. I don't care about doing the most DPS, I always knew as a zerker I could never do this, and I know as a brigand I never well, so long as I am now a DPS. My worst fear is 9 months down the line SoE decides to up and change it all again to balance the archetypes so they each have a balanced set of rolls and with a new expansion coming my level 60 brigand ends up being a tank and my retired level 50 berzerker is the new dps and now I have 20 levels to catch up to my guild instead of leveling up the 10 with them. That is the situation now, I am inline to being behind my guild once more and not able to enjoy any of the DoF exploration because I cannot accept the roll of tank without hating every moment of it. Any other zerkers that want to be dps, i suggest you start leveling a scout or mage now so you have a head start. P.S. you don't need to tell me to wait and see or that I don't know what is going to happen, I will leave it at that Zerjha - 50 Berserker Zirjha - 17 Rogue Message Edited by Ralluwen on 08-18-2005 05:48 AM
"I cannot accept the roll of tank without hating every moment of it." You never should have chosen the fighter archetype to begin with in that case because even brawlers are expected to tank sometimes. Think about it, if you are LFG somewhere and a group that consists of a mage, a priest, and a scout invites you to join them, what exactly do you think they're inviting you for? LOL You mean to tell me that if such a group invites you and expects you to tank for them you're going to tell them "Sorry I can't do it, I'm just a dps ok, keep looking,"? I honestly don't see how you made it to 50 with your zerker being like that. :robotsurprised: Personally I find zerkers who are afraid to tank rather pathetic. If you don't like tanking, fine, but absolutely refusing to fulfill that role at any time in the game is just plain wrong, IMO. Why even have any taunts and defense buffs then? Why even get to wear plate armor? Should have picked a class that gets more dps spells instead since that's all you obviously ever really want or need to be happy in this game. Otherwise it's really just a waste, and not just with the new revamp coming up but even as it stands right now. "My worst fear is 9 months down the line SoE decides to up and change it all again to balance the archetypes so they each have a balanced set of rolls and with a new expansion coming my level 60 brigand ends up being a tank and my retired level 50 berzerker is the new dps..." I really don't think you'll ever have to worry about a scout class becoming a tank in this game. But that's not to say they will always be that good of dps either. Right now they are but normally when I think of a scout I don't think of dps, I think of stealth, and tracking, and utility, and...well...scouting. LOL I'm not saying they should nerf the scout's dps, just saying they very well could and probably get away with it because I don't think the scout archetype was originally meant to be a high dps one. Anyhow, good luck with your brigand. Message Edited by infernus006 on 08-18-2005 10:49 AM
