Why are people crying NECRO NERF???

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by ARCHIVED-ShadowDragon32, Mar 20, 2006.

  1. ARCHIVED-Solaran_X Guest

    And the only time we have enough time to be T1 DPS is during specific raid environments. Specifically a raid mob with non extrordinary resists and no PBAoE attacks.
    Now...why is this about the only time we excel as DPS?
    It's easy.
    First, with no major resists beyond the normal our pitiful DoTs (which cost less than comparable Wizard/Warlock nukes, but also do considerably less damage) can actually run their full duration (we have a 36 second DoT, a 24 second DoT/snare that often breaks before doing much damage, a 12 second DoT, and a 9 second DoT. Plus Swarm of Bats, which is grey and was never upgraded past ToN). Our PBAoE lifetap is basically worthless if there are mezzed adds. And our single target lifetap is decent now. But still, our spells have nothing on a Wizard or Warlock using comparable level spells.
    Second, the mob needs NO PBAoE spell. Why? Because our pet and limited pets have a mind of their own. Our limited pets have such a little amount of hit points that one PBAoE from a mob (even just a simple XP-grinding ^^ or ^^^ Heroic) will destroy all three of our limited pet spells (four if you include the bone snake we get from the unupgraded and now grey con Drawing of Souls - I don't even think that pet scales anymore) in one cast. And our main DPS pet (Nightshade at L60, the Assassin-class pet) can only take two PBAoEs on average before it dies. Oh...I know...let's have the tank flip the mob! Great...except that our pets like to run around to the front of the mob very often.
    Outside of the most specific of raid environments, Necromancer DPS is abyssmal.
  2. ARCHIVED-Aexon Guest

    How do you think just about every other class feels when you post this? Oh a necromancer cant solo a HEROIC GROUP mob 5 levels below them, the sky is falling and the world is coming to an end. I dont know from personal expierence but have been told that there are alot of classes that can barely beat heroic monsters 10 levels below them. Some classes have problems soloing the solo content and you complain that you can not take a heroic mob 5 levels below you? Clearly there are some balance issues.
  3. ARCHIVED-Solaran_X Guest

    Did you miss the entire point of the post? People claim us (Necromancers) are overpowered and need to be nerfed. So I pointed out that a Conjuror TWO LEVELS BELOW ME (a L66 Conjuror) soloed the entire event without a problem. These are BLUE CON TRIPLE UP HEROIC AND GROUPED DOUBLE UP HEROICS, and he soloed them without a problem. I, on the other hand, am two levels higher and get killed after the encounter goes green.
  4. ARCHIVED-Aexon Guest

    Sorry for the strange quote... some reason it would not format for me.

    I really dont know how you can say our DPS is abyssmal except in raids. Yes I agree in raids our DPS excels but for me even in groups I can almost always stay close or if not exceed the T1 counterparts. I see 3 kinds of fights in a group, 2 of them we can do very good damage and the other we are not really geared towards.

    1st encounter:

    Any fight that lasts less then a few seconds, our pet will maybe get 1 or 2 hits in and we will be lucky to get a single spell off. Obviously scouts with there quick CAs are geared for knocking those low greens down fast in a group.

    2nd encounter:

    A ^^^ monster conning blue or higher. Once the fight extends past 30 seconds we really start to show our damage skills. Pet goes in and stays on the mob, then we use our lifetap, DOTs and Debuffs. If you have lich up you get a free 150 damage on each cast. These fights I always score really well on and can stay very competitive with even the best DPS classes.

    3rd encounter:

    A swarm of monsters conning blue or higher. I immediatly start my AOE DOT and send in the pet, generally the monsters dont last long on these fights. I just keep Assisting the tank and sending the pet in. As my AOE DOT and my PBAOE refresh I cast them. Sometimes I can really do a lot of damage this way as my aoe is hitting multiple monsters, but my pet does less and if I dont get good timing on my AOEs I have a greater potential to miss my DPS.

    So once again I just dont understand how people can say we dont do good damage in normal groups. Maybe I am playing different than everyone else, but the 2nd encounter and the 3rd encounter are the most common fights I run into when I am grouping. The majority of the time I can stay extremely competitive with my DPS.

    Maybe you could explain what your group fights look like and we could see why your DPS is so abysmal, cause I just dont see it.

    Aex
  5. ARCHIVED-Aexon Guest

    Yes I got your post and I was trying explain how that comes across to other classes. Yes I agree conjurers are overpowered as ARE NECROMANCERS.

    Cheers,

    Aex
  6. ARCHIVED-KBern Guest

    Beserkers can beat that encounter easier than necros, so can monks, so can warlocks.
    Heroic groups of green are cake for some classes, but will beat down a necro pretty harsh depending on tactics used, resists, etc.
    Dont try to make that something others cannot do.
    Go watch a fury or a warden solo sometime and easily take blue heroics....may not be fast, but they have no issues doing this.
    Some of you need to take your blinders off and widen that nerf aim some because some of the crap you spew that necros can do, soooo many other classes can also.
  7. ARCHIVED-Senen74 Guest

    100% Feign Death (Deathly Pallor): 15 minute reuse currently. In LU21, it's being reduced to 5 minutes. Sorry, but even at 5 minutes the reuse timer is too long to be of any true utility.
    Rezzing while Healers are Occupied: Yep. We can do one rez every minute. And we need reagents to cast our rez spell (not that the Essense of Anguish is hard to come by).
    Healing: At L68, I can heal for roughly 1.5K HP once every 45 seconds (between Displace Life and Animist's Bond - I think that's the AA pet-to-PC heal). I'm such a good healer...
    Resists: We buff up Disease resists by a couple hundred points. Not very impressive. Actually, it's pathetic since a T7 potion can probably do better resist buffs than us.
    Buffs: Wow...we can buff STA and INT by 68 (Adept I Teachings of the Underworld) and increase the Power pool by under 300 (Adapt I Favor of the Infernal - I believe). Nice L68 Necromancer buffage.
    Last night, I tried the Skywatcher ring event because it was up. Previously, I've seen a L66 Conjuror solo this event when everything was blue to him, so I figured 'how hard can this be?' Well...I died once clearing the three groups of two L63 ^^ Heroic mobs. And then the Skywatcher proceeded to eat my pet and me three times before I asked for help.
    Yeah...we're overpowered. A Conjuror two levels below me with comparable gear and spells can solo a named ring event that destroys me at L68

    What I see here is look we get all this great stuff realy helpfull on raids but lets down play it because I cant do it every 30 secs so its not a decided factor on raid success lol, whatever our necros have saved our bacon plenty being able to rez healers mid combat on boss fights. Also the idea that Necro's have this great sustained DPS and Sorcers don't if your in any credible raid guild your going to be stacked in a grp with enough power regen to last the duration of the hardest fights. I have 36 FT not counting the 10 from Traits + troub/illusionist buffs. I never go oop and if need be I have 2 canni's to convert health to power back to back to keep churning out dps so that old notion needs to be put to rest. Back on point its obvious Necros and Conjurors to a lesser extent bring great utility to raids I don't have to list all the things they bring because there all over these forums, the ones of you still living in the dillusion that your class if fine haveing all this and being top dps will have your reckoning just as every other class before you has.
  8. ARCHIVED-SirFreakus Guest

    I will admit, I haven't read every post in this tread... but a lot of what I did read I find hilarious. I am not going to point fingers or call so-and-so stupid... just share what I have witnessed in my own 'parsing'.

    I agree that parsing is not an exact science. I have compared parses of the same battles from different characters and gotten different numbers. It is not an exact thing. One thing I do know is that it gives a good base for comparison. I parse all most all of the time. I love doing 'uber' dps. I have found what works best for me in order to get the most out of what I can do. Pretty much all of my combat spells are between Adept 3 and Master 2... with most being Master 1. It is very rare when I am EVER out DPSed... at all. On very short fights where the Wizards toss out a big nuke, yes... but if the combat lasts over 15 sec I am usually on top.

    I have noticed that I do 33% to 50% more than Wizards in most circumstances. (If they try to do more, they pull agro and die... Pet classes are the best at agro management as our agro is 'kept' in differnent places for awhile) Skill may play a large factor here, but I have grouped with many wizards and quite a few I would consider good players.

    I would like to clarify my point in saying that Necromancers (and Conj's) have the potential for the highest DPS in the game currently. (In my opinion) A lot of reaching that is spell level and ability of the player.

    We are T1 DPS... and I plan on enjoying it while it lasts.
  9. ARCHIVED-Aexon Guest

    Thank you, that pretty much sums up exactly what I am seeing also. I think you may of summed it up better, but I pretty much have to agree with you completely. And yes I agree I will continue to enjoy being the best DPS as long as I can.

    Cheers,

    Aex
  10. ARCHIVED-Lukundo Guest

    This thread should have ended a long time ago. The people with sense are simply saying the same thing, i.e., necros can be the highest, or one of the highest damage dealers on long epic fights given the correct mob type, are slightly below scout/mage classes in normal exp groups and can solo effectively.
    To those of you that say things like " It is very rare when I am EVER out DPSed" I have no idea what game you play or what scout/mage classes you happen to group with, but I am sure they are all in awe of you and your massive dps. As has been stated, the dps tiers are not hard lines. As tier 2 dps you will at times out damage a tier 1 dps, a tier 1 dps will also do a tremendous amount more damage than you in a later fight, those are the breaks. Have the Wizard in your normal group cast Ice Nova or the assassin use Decapitate, regardless of what you do the remainder of that fight you will not catch their dps from that one spell ... that is why they are T1 dps.
    Our two main DoTs were not upgraded for T7, the assassin pet that everyone claims is doing too much damage is a level 60 pet with no upgrade, and still you people think we are overpowered? I am not saying we are underpowered, but certainly not overpowered. The nature of the necro class is slow sustained dps and never being out of power. In exchange, we give up burst damage. This same fact means that the longer the fight the more damage the necro can and will do.
    I also love this quote: "I have noticed that I do 33% to 50% more than Wizards in most circumstances." Just one question, how, especially considering your intelligence on your toon is about 100 below mine? Never mind, don't even try to answer that. I have read enough from people that simply throw out fictitious statistics.
    In fact, I am so UBER that at level 70 I can solo the Halls of Fate with little to no problem, and if I group I do 210 to 250% more damage than all of the other people in my group combined. In raids, I sometimes tank the Epic x4 with my pet while the other people who come to the raid sit back and relax while I burn it down with my overpowered DoTs and my dumbfire pets. As if that wasn't enough, when all heck breaks loose and I am the only one left alive I rez and full heal everyone. I really hope they beat the crap out of my class with the nerf bat because this is really getting too easy.
  11. ARCHIVED-Zald Guest


    You didn't just name a few, you named them all.... Hearts... thats the third, IMHO direct power transfer is better... and we don't get that some other DPS class does.

    So, like I said, we don't have vastly superior utility in raids.
  12. ARCHIVED-Kokapeli Guest

    I blew a snot bubble I laughed so hard at this.
  13. ARCHIVED-Usildor Guest

    Bah...I had a mental image of that and it made me choke on my soda. Thanks a lot!
  14. ARCHIVED-Truturion Guest

    Here's how I deal with the scout class...

    Anytime I group with one thats running a parser I do the following.

    - I turn off my pets buffs except for offensive stance
    - I lay low by sending my pet in a little late

    They always end up on top of the stats. And then say "wow I'm out DPS'ing a Necro!" :smileywink:
    Man, those scouts are dumb...

    I love messing with dumb ppl, Muhaha
  15. ARCHIVED-bluegod Guest


    All ad3, m1 or m2... how typical is that?! As a casual player, most of my spells are adept 1 and I've still got quite a ways before I reach my Int cap. I would guess that's the case for the vast majority of necros out there. So who cares what the l33t players parse? You're the exceptions, not the rule. Do the wizzies that you outdamage also have all ad3+ spells? Where's their int compared to yours?

    /shrug I guess my point is that the peeps with the uber spells are posting about their t1 dps-age as if it's the norm for the necro class but don't seem to consider that the lvl spells they have make a huge difference in the damage they do.
  16. ARCHIVED-ShadowDragon32 Guest

    I guess im just kimp. I usually parse in groups pretty high, but usually below the ranger/wizards. I dont really care if my long hall raid DPS is nerfed 15% or whatever it is people are saying as long as my group dps is the same. Just my 2 copper
  17. ARCHIVED-Deson Guest

    What I wanted to say in just 2 sentences.
  18. ARCHIVED-jjm666 Guest

    buggy b or just qa... anyway necro pet problem
    nerf or bug question...I don't own the code so cant say what moron allowed this
    Y'all say what ya going to do, but what about doing what you say and not messing other things up?
    This was meant to bridge the gap for the testserver and the patched
    http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/...rd.id=testdev&message.id=9397&jump=true#M9397
    we shouldn't post there unless we play there
    pleaze try to organize for them, by class... or something
    Message Edited by jjm666 on 03-23-200609:16 PM
  19. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    necros need to stop getting nurffed..the only reason that my pet takes agroo and parses so high is because i invested the time to adept 3 all my spells/buffs and level my AA's..if you dont do the same you suck and it's your fault..not your class. any class i play im good at beacuse i put in the effort instead of making the group level me...lazy players suck..and taking my necro to the top of the parse IS NOT easy im given spells that pop out of sink with each other and i need to constantly evaluate every encounter..wether i should nuke(joke necros have no nukes), heal or stun...and all too often it goes unsaid, cause macros are too complicated for me, and dont make me a better player thus are useless to me....instead of crying that my grass is so green...go work on your own lawn NOOB!!
  20. ARCHIVED-Yunga_511 Guest

    tho have to agree with summoner nerf, me as a necro, 100% crit chance is broken, tho still parse highest in raids.

    all in all, when it comes down to it, doesnt matter what class u are, what spells u have, u just need to learn how to play your toon right, once u've done that, no nerfs required