I'm glad everyone here is being super cognizant about things like group makeup and limited buffs (Bolster, Jcap, etc) and the effect they have on people's parses. So, throughout all of this, I continue to see most people in these class discussion threads ignoring a lot of relevant factors that contribute to a parse. Earlier in this thread I posted the closest thing I could get to a "controlled comparison" - same raid group / shared buff package - same stats - etc. I don't see that kind of comparison being drawn very often; it's usually just people blindly looking at a parse and getting all sad panda without considering the 19872 variable factors (ok, slight hyperbole) that contributed to that outcome. I've never said that all classes are balanced, or have the same DPS potential. In fact, I've never said that all classes should have the same DPS potential... there's a price to pay for utility, right? (I pay a huge price in loss of non-Ascension-DPS by going into Spiritual stance, and I damn well should.) Oh, btw, it's also very difficult to balance all classes across Solo, Heroic, and Raid content at the same time and get a similar outcome in each arena. We don't know what kind of weighting the devs have put on "Utility vs DPS" when they work towards class balance. I can get a pretty good read on how much a "group DPS proc" buff might be worth in their minds, but someone please tell me how much a "MaxHealth% debuff" or "Hate Transfer" weighs into the calculation... anyone? Oh, yeah, that's right, we all have our own opinions there, and opinions are like, well, that infamous brown starfish... I alluded to it earlier in this thread and I'll repeat it: if you strip away controllable variances and normalize for reasonable factors, we're in a pretty decent place with the DPS tiers right now. Some classes (sorcerers most notably) need a bit of tweaking to bring them in line, but the situation is not holistically dire for EQ2. Bottom line: please stop telling me that the BL/Conjuror/Ranger in your guild that has 50 Tithe Potency, and bought their Ascension nukes up to Grandmaster, and gets loaded up with every good cross-raid buff available is... "overpowered". No, the class isn't overpowered; that player went well out of their way to maximize the toon and is also being enabled by the "put the buffs where they're most useful" mentality (which is a logical conclusion for progression raid guilds). Without touching anything else, you could take the 20 Fervor from Bolster away from me and give it to any of the other similarly-geared DPS classes in my guild and you're going to see a dramatic parse swing in both directions for both of us.
but now pet classes have an avantage over other ... it's their sustain dps. Since they got their epic pet, necro and conj really did up in the parse. same for the rangers, the pet helps them a lot. BL have their pet of course but I don't know enough about beaslord to say how the pet acts. their are many fights where u need to joust, and having your pet (most now are immune to AoEs) still dps helps in parse. In some fights, the new conj/necro pet is 40 to 50% of the player dps. It's not even skill ... It's just gear and a good pet. BL ARE strong, it's just that now conjus reached up to them. U can't deny BL are T1+ dps compared to other supposed T1 dps and please, remind me of the Wiz/warlock utility ?
As well as a chain of hard hitting primal that no other class in the game have ability dmg even comparable by a mile, still ppl say bl not op and it's the person playing is op is very...... disg...I'm gonna skip the word now
I understand that where Entropy is coming from, he is consistently losing to a Conjurer and is frustrated in this regard. As a result, he feels that Conjurer is definitely the alpha class at this time. In my guild, I see different results with a larger variance than could be explained away simply by "tithe difference" as we all know, 15 extra tithe potency does not equal 15% more damage. The reality is, there are 3 dps classes. We can debate which of the 3 is the strongest - and cases can be made that the scaling strength of Conj/Ranger pets is so good that long term they're the biggest threat. But the reality is, there is a larger gap between 3rd and 4th than there is between 3rd and 1st. It means that "all the rest" of the T1 dps classes are suffering more than anyone could possibly claim they're suffering if they're playing a BL/Conj/Ranger. As I've stated before. The gap between 3 and 4 is a big gap. 4, 5, and 6 are Necro/Assassin/Brigand, most likely. And then 7/8 are Warlock/Wizard, interchangeable. And guess what? The gap between Brigands and Sorcs is EVEN BIGGER than the gap between 3rd and 4th best T1. Sorcs are THAT far behind. There really is no point fixing ANYTHING for other T1s at all until Sorcs are balanced such that they justify inclusion in raids.
I don't find them particularly op I've competed with them for a few expacs now if you know your stuff and with buffs even you should be up there with a blord .
No, it's not about losing to a class. Please be a bit less passively/aggressive condescending with your tone. I like competition on the parse and now I definitely have it. The days of Ire-dread BLs are over. We all got Ascension and many classes got really strong epic spells. Even healers can parse well on burst fights now, and I'm ok with that. I am making a comparison between two players who have equal stats, are of (imo) equal skill, have the same group buff package in raid, and get the same cross raid buffs. Before we started recently running a mystic neither of us had Bolster, and the Conj would consistently edge me out on any sustained fight. I generally get first-Bolster priority and now it's more even, or me ahead... as you'd expect that buff to do. I've never complained about the Conj class. I've merely used this controlled test to throw back in the faces of the ignorant folks who keep yapping on about "OP BLs LOL".
Bl Conji and ranger are just all op stop acting it's not. I've yet seen anything close, same as Mogrim's observation. The dev is not gonna nerf it so just admit and enjoy the ride. It's really not the skill or buff it's the class. And don't act like we all are ignorant urself know better
The reason people keep leaving this game, is that it's like on a race track, bl is like a Ferrari, ranger is like f3000 and Conji is the current F1. Assassin are Honda Civic in the race track, rouge are like Toyota Corolla, and sorc are really just bicycles. Losing to an F1 Doesn't mean a Ferrari is in the same ball park as my bicycle. In the end, ppl on bicycle get bored, ppl driving civic and Corolla get bored, the game in dps side of the world is left with 3 classes, great time. At this point I kinda want a dev coming here and say "yes we are working toward this, we don't need that much players to run the game and 3 classes is more then enough"
for the comparison, I would more say that you were sold a ferrarri but it just is as fast as a civic. When you choose to play support class or healer class, you know u certainly won't be top T1 dps and you're fine with that. Same goes for healers. but when u want a good T1 dps class and you are just a tiny bit ahead of support classes, that's where things are wrong. and yes Conjus got up with their pet, rangers got up with their pets, but as said it doesn't make the BL less OP. Same for necros and Conjus, anyway their pet is so good it does all the damage now and If BL have to be there, fine, if they are meant to be able to do the dps they do, cool .. but other "T1" dps should be there too. and it's had to talk about skill when the pet does 40 to 50% of the damage of the mage/ranger. because, especially for rangers, u don't control the pet at all (except attack, back off)
I see no reason to change Conj / BL / Ranger, and I am an assassin. I do think there should be some adjustments for the other T1's (especially the sorcerers). People need to stop complaining about other classes, and provide feedback about what needs to be done for the other classes that are trailing (Mogrim has offered many suggestions).
I think it's fair to say that overall ranger/summoner passive dps is a tad high and bl primal base dmg is as well. Whether or not those can be adjusted without hurting those classes too much is another story. Also, I don't think it's really fair to specify that the utility of class is lacking when in a particular stance so that justifies their increased damage. If they can switch stances and provide utility that means they offer utility.
Lyricus has a great personality, by kindly accept the fact other people are making twice the money with same effort - it is just right job vs wrong job. You are right, we shouldnt bring them down but bring us up. and the content will cleared sooner and people leave sooner. and you probably dont have powerful bl/conji/ranger in ur raid to show u how much of "better players" they are compare to you 99% of ranger/conji/bl are "better players' its all their skills
Both wizard and warlock have group damage reduction temps, damage procs, and if warlocks spec left side, they give a hefty duration increase to all beneficial abilities. There are more, but i havent played the class in a while, and forget.
You are talking about burst fight - then you are talkin about sustained fight (which likely to be T4 and new raids) anyone who have persistent high DPS pet (aka passive DPS) will win hands down. Any fights that require massive joisting will evict BL from top 3 slots easy. Basically BL now is somewhat similar to what warlocks use to be after CB cap but before stat mudflation. In certain scenarios BL spike but in general? you best bet is ranger and conjuror
