Who built the Nexus Core?

Discussion in 'History and Lore 2' started by Anaogi, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    Darathar is indeed, on his own side. his plan was to steal and hatch one of Nagafen's prismatic eggs, to own is own Kerafyrm.

    As to the other dragons ( CoV and RoS ) this is one of those times where me and Meirril tend to disagree. Meirril takes Kera's Awakening as when players broke into Sleeper's Tomb in Eq1 Velious. Kera then kills all RoS/CoV dragons. this is where Meirril see's the retcon as him knocking them out/disabling rather then killing.

    I see it as they never let Kera out from EQ1. (just like there are other major events we as players 'do' that aren't 'official' like we (the players) in Eq1 never 'actually' kill the dragons of VP, or king Tarinax, ect.) and that Kera was released in the cataclysms, where he marched on Skyshrine and was stopped from killing Yelinak by the arrival of the Crusaders.

    Though in canon right now I beleive that much of the CoV is still engaged in battle for Skyshrine/recovering from it, and we supposedly have killed all but 1 member of the Ring of Scale (my money being that the living member is Xygoz, the one that was asleep and you beat up his dreams/manifestations.

    the Awakened Cult had I believe 2 CoV members in it and 2 RoS members. Harla Dar and Vyemn bing the CoV, and Gorenaire and Talendor being the former RoS. and yes they basically renounce thier loyalty to the aformentioned groups to become the major figures of the Awakened Cult.

    The Nexus itself, if it was made by dragon hands, I would probably guess a much older (deathwise) Dragon. like Jaled Dar, or perhaps Dozekar's mate.

    The Erudite says it's nothing like the Combine, or the Ulterean network, and he's unable to enter it. So I highly doubt it's Combine/Erudite in origin. Shissar have no access to Vesspyr..the only reason we even get to a place of shissar origin is through the gateways the Nexus tore.

    So we can only guess it's a Dragonkin that made it. someone probably of the First Brood...maybe someone important who died during Kerafyrms war that saw him put to sleep. But my money would probably be on Dozekar's mate, Kera's Mother. She seems like she'd have the most motive to want to try and cross threads. find a thread were her and Dozekar's relationship would be permitted, find a way back to norrath fearing Veeshan's judgement of her actions, perhaps. like the 'Ancestral Champions' we have to beat.
  2. Meirril Well-Known Member

    I don't think it could be a dead dragon. We're informed during the sig quest that the reason your helpers can't enter the Nexus is because the dead aren't able to. This could be some sort of defense that keeps all the dead out except for the creator, but it makes more sense that the Nexus Core exists in a space that dead spirits can't enter.

    According to the sig quest we lead the Awakened forces to the Nexus Core. Kerafyrm moved the Temple of Veeshan to the Ethernere to send his forces to gather the Tears of Veeshan in the Nexus Core. So Kerafyrm has some knowledge of its existence, but if he built it he should be able to tell his soldiers exactly how to get there. Or for that matter he should of been able to travel there himself and get the other three tears.

    Of all the living dragons we know of I can think of 4 that might of built the Nexus Core. Even though I said he couldn't be the one, Kerafyrm is still a possible. I don't think its likely, but if you think the sig quest was done sloppy and make a lot of allowances for the players then it would make sense that Kerafyrm would know there are 3 Tears in the Nexus because he built it and used it to get knowledge of Rohen Theer from other threads and how to steal his powers.

    Zlandacar is also a possibility. His fascination with the dead and willingness to commit any taboo says he might of been able to find a way into the Ethernere. Once there his thirst for knowledge would guide him.

    We've wondered just how did Trakanon manage to cure himself from his half-undead state. It is possible that through a lot of study Trakanon managed to enter the Ethernere to find a cure. Once in the Ethernere he slowly gathered more power and used the Tears he discovered in other Threads to build a Nexus capable of assisting his search for a cure.

    The last possibility is a really remote one, but possibly the one that makes the most sense. It could be that Veeshan herself built it. Why? A very good question. Maybe Veeshan wanted to see what other Veeshan were up to in other threads? Maybe she wanted to spread her brood to other dimensions and gave up on it after she built the Nexus Core and found out that those other threads had Veeshan's of their own. Or maybe our Veeshan did go to another thread and that is the reason she doesn't answer prayers here. Why this make sense is she would have access and the resources to create the Nexus Core. A god shouldn't have trouble getting to the Ethernere, and the Tears of named after her. The implication is that Veeshan is the source of the tears and her using several to power the Nexus Core wouldn't be a surprise.

    Though Veeshan is suppose to be huge. Its strange to think of her shrinking herself down to such an insignificant size.
  3. Reshi Member

    Does this mean that thee are many Kerafyrm? I mean one Kerafyrm per thread?
  4. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    I think Harla Dar might have given us a clue herself at to who built it. she speaks of a High Elf that used to come and listen to her stories.

    Your right we have been thinking it was a dragon.

    Now I'm thinking it might be Mayong. We know he had a 'high elf' guise (he was Lenya's Advisor during EoF) his time as a Diety would give him knowledge of Ethernere, methods to get into it. or perhaps a deal struck with Drinal that got him access in return for giving up his divinity.

    It would explain why he wants to keep the dragons out as much as anyone else, and why he would prefer only the 'living' aka himself, having access to it. it gives a way to 'cross threads' hence a way to get himself out if Kerafyrm complete's the prophecy, as well as access to other threads that may have more or less influence from himself or other prominent races (Shissar) or figures (Miragul/Al'Kabor/El'Arad)
  5. Meirril Well-Known Member

    I'm finding that to be unlikely. Harla Dar has only been dead for 6-7 years. Mayong gave up his divinity in the period between EQ1 and EQ2. We have also seen Mayong acting on Norrath. Unless he brokered a deal with Drinal to bring an entire crew of workers to the Ethernere I can't see him being able to create the Nexus in just a few years time by himself.

    I hate bringing this up but...remember Roadal? Miragul had a high elf disguise he used while in the past. This was probably to keep people from being too interested in him. At the period of time the Ethernaughts were active humans didn't know magic so him wandering around casting spells would of been suspicious.

    Its possible that our time-traveling, magic fanatic (and thought to be trapped in his own memory) intra-dimensional lich of mystery went to the future, talked to Harla Dar and other dragons. Earned their trust enough to not only learn draconic magic but to also get the parts necessary to...travel to the past and create the Nexus Core. Then following this though process he went back further in time and convinced the Shissar to turn away from Cazic Thule and gave them the runes for the Shissar Calendar. He created the Greenmist to make sure the prophecy came out the way he wanted it to. In another hundred years Mayong will complete his project to re-create the Ydal race. Miragul will steal the first child, name it Mayong and give him dreams about being raised by Inny. Then Miragul will deposit this child on Norrath 10,000 years in the past so it can witness Veeshan strike the world and deposit the first brood. After all of this Miragul will go further into the past, create Norrath and then retreat to The Void so he can witness his grand creation and we finally know the true identity of The Nameless.

  6. Loshal Member

    Yeah, it's awfully wibbly-wobbly.

    I still think that Miragul is the most likely candidate. As for needing to know draconic magic...he is the master of arcane magic. This includes being a chanter. And I say chanter, rather than coercer or illy, because he predates that divide. He's also the necromancer. So he's got options. Rip it from the mind of a living dragon, or enslave that dragon to his will and make it do the work if the magic is something that he himself cannot find a way to power. If those aren't options, do it to an undead dragon via necromancy. Garudon's been laying in Veksar for quite some time, he'd be pretty vulnerable. And since Trak was hovering between life and undeath for so long, he'd probably be vulnerable too. Failing them, there's plenty of dead ones who's souls he could rip out of the afterlife. It's not like Veeshan is really that likely to directly intervene if one of her mighty children gets curbstomped by a lesser being.

    And while sure, dragon magic is fueled by the dragon's own body, there's likely alternative power sources. After all, what dragon is going to want to risk their own life-force to fuel a spell when they're in a dire battle? They'd have developed another way to achieve at least minimal success without that limitation. If nothing else, Miragul could attempt to fuel the needed spells by (since he's also a Magician and a Wizard) funneling power directly from the elemental planes into the spell. Would make for extra steps, complication, and time...but what does he care? He's a lich. Age means nothing, time means nothing, and he doesn't need to sleep, eat, or breathe.

    If it wasn't a dragon who did it, Miragul is a very likely suspect. Other options are, yes, Mayong, and perhaps even Valdanov Zevfeer, if he rained down onto Norrath riding a chunk of Luclin.

    Also - regarding powersources - anyone considered Luclinite? Considering the effects that chunks of moon had on Norrath from just sitting there, what could happen if they were carefully adapted to fuel a spell?

    Final note - another possibility is Grieg Venificus. Remember him? The man who's skill at Geomancy was so vast that he, without the proper keys, activated the Nexus in Luclin and moved the remains of the Combine? The man who's skill at it was so vast that Luclin trapped him in madness because if she didn't, he would override her block on further use of the nexus? Yes, his magical skill was so great, in a field of magic we know next to nothing about, that it could override Luclin's will in her own house. Grieg has also seen the core in the Luclin Nexus, and had time to study it. And if he died when the moon went boom, that means 2 very important things. Firstly - he got to enter the Ethernere. Secondly - he was no longer inside Grieg's End, meaning he was no longer within the confines of Luclin's curse. Considering the mention of other threads and the interconnectivity, he could have used the EQ1 breach in the ethernere's boundaries to get access to Norrath again...and life even. Even if not, the 'no dead things' ward might actually be 'no dead things except those loyal to Tsaph Katta'. Can't be sure.

    So, those are the options I see. I lean towards Miragul, but Grieg is a very strong contender for the possibility.
  7. Meirril Well-Known Member

    Its unlikely that Kerafyrm exists in most threads. The gods exist in most threads because they are fundamental beings. From what has been said the names exist in different threads, but the actions, history and even personality of the gods can change from thread to thread. EQ2 is so much like EQ1 because EQ2 diverged from EQ1. From what I've herd of EQN it shouldn't have a Kerafyrm. There might be a prismatic dragon (or hundred), but I don't think it would have the same name. Or it could have a General Kerafyrm....that isn't a prismatic dragon.
  8. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    Kerafrym is in EQN. one of the most recent books that talks about a meeting among the dragons (the meeting that triggered the war) talks about thier 'Father' Vulak'Aerr is watching over the 'prison' and that it was shaken, but not broken.

    it also shows that Nagafen and Vox are very much free of thier respective prisons at this point (both are present at the meeting) Jaled Dar is more...aggressive then the EQ/EQ2 version. Woushi and Nagafen seem to be allies. Zlandicar is still..undeadish, and they used what happened to him as a trigger to get the Dragons to go to war. (blaming it on the Elves and thier now defunct High Magic)
    the meeting takes place in Skyshrine, and the dragons we know of that are present are Vox, Nagafen, Woushi, Jaled Dar, Yelinak, Zlandicar, Klandicar. there is still a divide between RoS and CoV, (Jaled Dar is the leader of the RoS and wants to make the RoS the dominant faction)

    As to some of the other types if possiblities as to who built it, I don't think Miragul is the one to do it. and he isn't 'The Necromancer' that's Dartain. specialization does have it's advantages, after all.

    I don't see him as being the one who built it...and if he did, he certainly wouldn't but it someplace with beings powerful enough to see through his disguises. (phara dar saw through it when he was with the Ethernaughts that he was not what he appeared to be)

    Grieg is an interesting possibility, but that would almost require that he found a way out of Ethernere and back to life...and then back into Etherenere to VI. I seriously doubt anything that was living survived Luclin going boom in EQ2.
    and in Eq1, the tear between ethernere and norrath is located on norrath itself..a place he can't get to do to Luclin's curse.

    So far if it had to be someone living, my money is still on Mayong. he's really the only one with the power, and the knowledge to do it that could get there. (either when he was a god or sometime shortly after) and his other reason for looking through other threads could be to find Zanne
  9. Meirril Well-Known Member

    I don't expect anyone from EQN to actually read this forum, but I think its a horrible idea to have Kerafyrm as a prismatic dragon in EQN. That storyline is very dominate in EQ1 and EQ2. Having it be less of an overriding factor would be better for EQN. Introduce Kerafyrm as a blue dragon that is a brilliant general, either ruthless in his pursuit of the lesser races or even traitor that wants to champion the lesser races and gave them knowledge of magic.

    Making Kerafyrm the Sleeper again...its only a question of when do you repeat the past and have the same storyline creep up again. For a game that is suppose to be different from EQ1/2 being able to predict the future (even if it isn't accurate) by looking at the other games doesn't sound like a good idea.
  10. Castegyre Well-Known Member

    In the dev diary about lore for Next at about 2:00 or so in Steve Danuser points out that Veeshan in that setting represents order. It's generally been held up that she's the force that sets life in motion on Norrath in the Next universe also. Karafyrm is mentioned as being in opposition to Veeshan as a force of chaos, change, and knowledge. Between those two influences the universe is shaped. This would seem to put Karafyrrm on equal footing with Veeshan, but he's not listed explicitly as one of the deities for the setting. There's no other mention of any other attributes for him that I've seen so far. The prison is mentioned and it seems a safe assumption that Karafyrm is the one in there, but that doesn't mean he's the same Karafyrm we've known previously.

    Moorgard left this post in the thread on the Next forums about which characters from the EQ franchise people would like to see:

    "Keep in mind that some of these famous franchise characters could turn up much earlier (or later) in history, not necessarily at the start of the game. For instance...

    Early in the Dal Era during the Age of Ascension, a warrior woman arose among the northern clans of humans named Antonia, who was renowned for her fierceness in battle. She conquered her rivals and united the clans into a fledgling kingdom, taking her home village of Bayle as its capital. Antonia of Bayle became the first of a line of rulers of the northlands, transforming the city of Bayle into a hub of human civilization.

    Though the fortunes of the Bayle family would rise and fall over the ages, the legends of the first queen continued to endure among the northerners. Songs are sung to her in the halls of Halas even to this day, and her descendants are proud to carry on the family name.

    It's certainly possible that one or more of her descendants--whether Antonia, Antonius, or some other name--will be important in the timeline of EQ Next."

    To me it seems very possible that Karafyrm is both present and powerful, but Next is not EQ or EQ2. The devs might indeed make him a rehash of previous versions, but they might also go a whole other direction with him. He may be a demented first born or some elder dragon demon or something for all we know at this point.
  11. Rainmare Well-Known Member

    that almost makes it sound like a...God/Lucifer kind of setup between Veeshan and Kerafyrm. he's been locked away to prevent him from just destroying everything, though eventually, no prison is fool proof. he'll get loose and it'll be 'hell on earth' for everyone until V shows up to put him back down.

    though Vular'aekk being called 'our father' by Yelinak seems to imply that V in Next did just mark the planet and lay eggs..she actually had a living mate. that's an interesting addition.

    and I like the idea that Antonia Bayle of Next...might be a descendant of the original. and depending on how long lived the elves are Lanys may be a folk hero/legend to the Tier'dal mroe then an actual figure in game.

    but back to the Nexus itself. still betting on Mayong. more then likely though we'll never find out who built it, or even get any real hints.
  12. Reshi Member

    Is this because you thinks its just a plot device to move the game in certain direction and they have got no lore to support it?
  13. Meirril Well-Known Member

    More likely is that there is lore written to support it, but there is no reason for them to include it in the game. Especially if this area is never revisited. Though there is sufficient reason for them to give more lore about the Farsian Nexus and even the Luclin Nexus if those become involved in the future story lines. That seems likely to happen, especially considering the actions of the Harrowing Horde (and the lack of resolution to those issues).