Which year after the Nameless ...

Discussion in 'History and Lore' started by ARCHIVED-Darn, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. ARCHIVED-Darn Guest

    I'm impressed by how much effort others have put in to generate the current timelines. Lots of deduction and such. Still ... I'd like to try at least to ask ... has no dev ever been asked or replied to the simple question ... what year AN (after Nameless) do we have currently please?
    It is a bit annoying that all races ingame use the same, human/barbarian time/calendar. Not even the Iksar have their own AG (after the Greenmist). And the interference that seems to have started it all is the crowning of Bayle 4 who rules in EQ1 and the ingame time at release of EQ1. Problem ... both Bayle 4 as well as Antonia have now ruled for far above 100 years without aging or such naturally so I don't feel too happy using that first interference (and the "was 40 years at coronation" - how you know - assumption) for a timeline start to link AN with AB (after barbarian).
  2. ARCHIVED-Darn Guest

    Basically this is the link I've put together so far:
    - 4800 AN Combine Empire founded (Geoffrey Dev reference)
    - 5000-5100 AN Combine Empire falls (Vahlen Dev reference)
    - Bayle I is crowned 5130 AN (Maps of Myrist book)
    - 5191 AN Bayle II is crowned, he renamed Tunaria later to Antonica
    - EQOA starts (Bayle II is king but the continent is still named Tunaria, source EQOA manual http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/560973-...ures/faqs/21269), the time of EQOA is roughly 500 years before EQ1, I try to find any information about ingame dates of the release
    - ??? Tunaria becomes named Antonica by Bayle II
    - 5214 AN Bayle III born (Maps of Myrist book)
    - 5275 AN Bayle IV born (Maps of Myrist book)
    - 5299 AN Bayle IV is crowned (Maps of Myrist book)
    - EQ1 starts (Bayle IV is king, ingame time is around 3075)
    With EQOA playing 500 years earlier than EQ1 according to official release lore that means it must be around "ingame" time (Barbarian enlightment) 2575.
    That in turn means 2575 /time is between 5191 AN and 5299 AN, rather at the lower end as there is still Bayle III to be crowned before Bayle IV and the renaming be done (though I have no idea when or how long he was king). Now Bayle III was born 5214 AN so if he was crowned earlierst with 18 years (do we have any information about his age?) that would be 5232 AN so the 2575 /time of EQOA would be between 5191 AN and 5232 AN. That is only a window of 41 years. Just picking the middle would mean that 2575 /time equals 5211 AN.
    But the timelines I find all come from assumptions about the age of Bayle III and ignoring EQOA and end up placing the time of the crowning of Bayle IV into the range of 3211 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgZpGi6Fgbi2dFBMME9MbVhYRTdqeFUtNS1abEVlVkE&pli=1#gid=0 - calculated from DoF release which ingame at Valor was 3740) down to 3035 (http://lorenorrath.free.fr/timeline.php) with all kinds of implications on the other dates of course being way too late if my calculation of 2575 is correct ...
    Now the biggest implication is that EQ1 ingame time 3075 would mean 5711 AN. If that was correct, he was at least 412 years on the throne. o_O On the other hand Antonia Bayle I follows Antonius VII at ingame time a bit before EQ2 release, so around 3721. That would mean the Antonius had to cover over 3 generations (V to VII) indeed 680 years. So something must have happened that gave them extraordinary long reigns and lifespans. And Antonius IV of course does indeed reign in EQ1 without change.
    The next implication is that the time of greenmist is around 3711 AN (2000 years from EQ1 start the 5 Iksar tribes existed, they seem to have formed after the greenmist). That gives more time for the claimed 1000 years of slavery for the Iksar.
    The third implication is that Luclin which was destroyed 5595 AN (there was a book somewhere with a prophecy and that year) was quite a while ago, ingame time 3357 basically. Is that possible? Almost 400 years before EQ2 released? Or is that number of 5595 from Vhalens book of Sunder plain nonsense? http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=di...ogue&did=39
  3. ARCHIVED-Meirril Guest

    Ok, lots of this timeline doesn't make sense. I can't give dates but I can give a chronolgical list of events.
    1) Humans arose before the founding of Qeynos and the Bayle dynasty. They are responsable for the village of GreenOcean that was settled by Barbarians/Humans and eventually becaome Qeynos.
    2) The Combine Empire didn't arise until the Lost Age. By most estimations the Combine Empire only existed for 30-100 years before Seru betrayed Katta and caused the civil war that destroyed the Empire. I'm not sure how long the Empire took to disintigrate however there is very strong evidence to point to Nerriak existing as a city, Felwith (and the rest of Fadewyr) being members of the Combine Empire, and Qeynos and Freeport both being members of the Combine as well. It is fairly clear that Euradin and Euradites came about after the fall of the Combine Empire which makes it difficult to excuse the existance of a Combine Spire on Odus but lets leave that for another discussion.
    3) The Rending happened about 400 years ago (100 years after the gods left/EQ1/Planes of Power Expansion). The Shattering (Velious explodes) only happened about 30-50 years ago. Search this board, lots of discussion on this topic.
  4. ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

    actually, Al'Kabor notes that the 'Combine Spires' are actually a lot older then the ombine empire. commenting that he should really start calling them the 'Quadroliths' instead becuase they predate the Combine.
    the combine empire is most famous for thier use/operating them...but they didn't make them.
    my guess is the Shissar or the Rallosian Empire might be the actual designers of the spires, or maybe even Mayong's 'race'
  5. ARCHIVED-Meirril Guest

    Rainmare@Oasis wrote:
    Yep, Al'Kabor did say that. But there is a good indication that the Combine Empire knew about all of the spires that were connected by The Nexus and could access them. There were also some slight variations on the old Spires, most notibly the spire in South Ro was of a pyramid and short pylon construction instead of the huge pylons without a central pyramid. Then there was the super spire with pyramids in the center that the Combine Empire probably produced (or maybe how the Shissar were able to teleport the Temple of Ssrar to Velious).
    It is difficult to think that the Shissar had access to all of Norrath. The main question would be why didn't they build a spire system and *not* conquor Norrath and take slaves from every corner of Norrath instead of just settlling for Kunark and the Iksar?
    The Rallosians make for an interesting possability. The only real problem I see with that comes with the attempt to escape the Rath's curse. If they could portal all over Norrath, why did they take ships?
    The Ydal.../sigh. I really hate all this Lore. I just find it contrived. Anyways, if the entire race lived and died in the plane of hate before the first dragons arrived on Norrath I can't see Mayong spending a few hundred years walking around Norrath building spires. Unless he practices Geomancy in which case if he hates dragons so much why didn't he just geomancy Skyshrine and the Temple of Veeshan into the ground and be satisfied that he killed at least half of the dragon race in one day's work? Or maybe Mayong had a lot of time on his hands and like to spend it carving hills into spires?
    Lore on the Spires and Druid Rings is very sparce. Funny when you consider that we use them all of the time. That and the hundreds of thousands of chips used to reach Luclin...
  6. ARCHIVED-Rainy Guest

    well if you go with the Rallosian theory, it makes sense in the manner that the Empire was divide in a manner of speaking by expertise. the 'goblins' where the master mage types. the Axefen ones. it coudl be when the curse hit, the only ones that had the power/knowledge to operate the spires were the goblins...which mean the giants didn't ahve a choice but to use the ships to try and flee.
    with the Shissar, I can see it simply being a case of they couldn't enslave the others becuase the other races could effectively fight back. the Iksar were enslaved 1 tribe at a time...and thier tribes didn't have near the poewr of the Shissar. remeber they learned magic/fighting from thier shissar masters.
    now look at the location of other spires.
    we got Odus...pupulated by a dragon (Toxxulia) and the Kerra/Vah Shir who were already well acconmplished fighters and at the time probably were beastlords. a whole new fighting style and art, and masters of the enviroment. the Shissar would have to adapt, or try to, before either Toxxulia or the Kerran took them down.
    same on Faydwer. as far as we know, the Gnomes and dwarves may well have already been on Faydwer. dutiful followers of brell and bristlebane, so clerics/paladins/warriors through and through. the counterpoints to everything the Shissar had...and then throw in tinkered weapons and underground cities and ambushpoints. then add in the elves coming from Tunaria with thier druidic and arcane knowledge.
    Velious. the cold probably would have done them in. they'd have no camoflague and stick out like sore thumbs dealing with the Claws of Veeshaan or the rygorr if they were there.
    and of course if they tried Tunaria/Antonica...they had the Rallosian Empire to deal with.
    so if the Shissar made the spires..they probably tried to use them, but were woefully underprepared for the forces they'd face outside of Kunark...where they only really had dealt with the tribalistic Iksar.. like the Roman Empire...who steamrolled a lot of people...until they came up against people that used the same tactics in battle. then they found thier 'skill' was more the fact the other force had nothing to fight it with, then any actual ability among thier generals/leadership.
  7. ARCHIVED-Jait Guest

    In regards to the Spires, it's like a lot of EQ Lore where multiple characters and/or races stories contradict each other...but sometimes they're all correct while doing it.

    The original creator of the Spires was probably the Rallosians, but over time the Shissar, the Combine Empire, and even others (Kedge) could have rediscovered the method of creating them. They probably took a tremendous effort so between all these races they were built piecemeal for their particular needs and places of interest.
    Fast forward to the present and there's a lot of Spires. Al'Kabor was correct, but only about the Spire(s) he tested.
  8. ARCHIVED-Darn Guest

    Wew, lots of good discussion while I was away. Nice. I've spent quite some time meanwhile pouring over the Atheneum and putting every time/relation I could find into excel - without sorting yet - through it based on all these documents and books in the Atheneum.
    I'm not done yet with it, but getting there and it slowly starts making sense. I've a few major questions though:
    1. Considering the Rallosian Empire calendar: anyone a clue what their dating reference is? They have "year AS". What is AS? After Sebisilian Empire ... fall? Sebilisian Empire creation?
    2. And what about the Feir'Dal system of PD? Anyone knows what PD refers to? That seems to be pretty much the human calendar though?
    3. The goblin calendars are pretty clear now, they just rename/change their calendar reference depending on their home base.
    I'm a bit wondering if the calendar that starts shaping up is utter nonsense but I've basically completely dismissed the idea of ordering ages one after the other and instead puzzle it together sticking seriously to the lore references of individual stories. The major thing that causes this though is that in this case the humans were enlightened already in the age of scales for example (2636 AN basically) and it all starts to stretch out differently.
    4. Anyone having some proof that this must be wrong and the humans must have been enlightened later?
    5. Can anyone give a placement for when Larinna Bayle lived? Or when the Ring of Scales was reforged the last time (a year, I know the age relation)?
  9. ARCHIVED-Darn Guest

    Meirril wrote:
    What is the reference for this 100 years from ... EQ2 release? Because we have many hundred years meanwhile passing ingame.

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