Which Enchanter to support a Melee DPS Group

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Enursin, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. Enursin New Member

    All,

    I would like to get some information on which enchanter is best to complement a melee dps group.

    Currently I play a necro with a bunch of friends and our normal group make up is (SK, Inquisitor/Warden, Dirge, Assassin, Necro and Wizard)

    I am getting a little bored with the necromancer and my wizard friend said he is looking for a change as well. He is likely going brigand or swashbuckler to be cool like the rest of the team as he puts it.

    I am cool with that as I like casters and have been told that I should try being an enchanter as they are one of the best support class for a pure melee dps team and would be a stronger addition to the group than my current necro.

    We don’t raid at all except old content for fun and quest updates and spend 90% of our time doing Tov heroics and other quests together.

    With our group now looking to be a SK, Inquisitor/Warden, Dirge, Assassin, (Brigand or Swash) which enchanter would be the best to help complement this team? Or is the necro or another class better suited which would round out the group better?

    Appreciate the help and advice on this

    Thanks

    Enursin
  2. Laserbeak Member

  3. Ucala Well-Known Member

    most will say a coercer, due to the fact that they have always been a melee group support chanter.
    but in reality you would get more support to the group from a swash then you would a coercer at this current state in the game.
    so unless you need mana flows to an extreme level, an Illy would probably give you more benefits even for a melee group set up. (both chanters have PoM, illies boost pot by 5% base for the group in the spell that is attached to PoM) both chanters have EV for 1 person.
    coercer gives the group 90 MA (no real big joy) and gives the group 5 CB, plus an extra 5 CB for whoever gets Peaceful link, plus the 25 CB on their presitge (unless someone dies).
    where illy gives the group 10 MA and 80ish haste (better then MA imo). plus 5 CB for whoever gets syngerism. and 25 pot for the group in prestige (unless someone dies).
    and in the current gear situation, scouts tend to take the gear that has CB/wdb, which usually gives them like 450 CB with 330 pot or something like that.
    and you will rank in the most dps when pot/cb are near equal to each other.
    A is pot;
    B is CB;
    A + B =6
    3 * 3 = 9
    5 * 1 = 5
    4 * 2 = 8
    which will rank the pot boost from illies that give more valuable then the CB that coercers give (will help equal out your stats, unless you are already equal from the dreadlord no sta gear)
  4. Mountbatten Well-Known Member

    I'm inclined to agree with Ucala. Unless your tank is having aggro issues, or you need numerous group power feeds, an Illy is probably a better choice. And even then power shouldn't be an issue, between manastones, Manatap, Mana Flow, Mystic Illusion, and your myth proc, you shouldn't have much trouble with power drains unless they're ticking rapidly, and for a lot.
  5. Geez New Member

    Also a lot of gear now has temps that can be activated during Timewarp for an even bigger dps boost and can give parses for the group that make your eyes water. Timewarp is just, well, its the moneyshot
  6. Ucala Well-Known Member

    idk what you mean by this, an example would be nice, cause I can't think of any temps on gear that TW helps.
    most are non modifiable
    in a group setup like the OP posted, TW would really only be for the illy themselves, the SK somewhat. and the assassin if they have their AA smoke bomb or whatever. maybe a little little bit of dirge.
  7. Enursin New Member

    Thanks for all the help and information guys. I will take your advice and go with Illy. Just to confirm. TW only works for spells correct not melee combat arts?
  8. Ucala Well-Known Member

    correct
  9. Laserbeak Member

    Meh I still disagree. Any good scout would be wearing SOS fabled dread gear... which has wdb/pot/cb on it already.. Peaceful link is amazing and can make a lesser geared tanks life much easier....And don't coercer's give other melee stats? And arn't coercers temps more melee based? Idk I've raided top end before I was a Necro...on an assassin for years...and I always parsed better with a coercer in my group, due to the fact you're on a class that the majority of their parse is auto attack... which is effected by crit bonus, not potency.
  10. Ucala Well-Known Member

    a coercer's reactives, yes, but that doesn't boost anyones dps except the coercer's, so idk why it would be relevant, that just means that a coercer would want a melee group more then a mage group, not that the melee group wants a coercer.

    hmm, coercers really have no temps other then PoM, and...no that's it.
  11. Koko Well-Known Member

    Both are horrible to be honest. Unless there is a immediate, dire, need for massive power regeneration there isn't a substantial need for either. If it has to be an enchanter, illusionist is more EncDPS-y and EncDPS-buffy.

    tl;dr guide to enchanters
    Reasons to coercer: c-shout, hate management, ++power regen, charm abuse
    Reason to enchanter: Time warp, (primarily) casting buffs, +power regen
  12. Enursin New Member

    Well to be honest from a power point of view we are good. Never have power issues at all. And from healing point of view our inquisitor has no issues keeping us up in ToV Heroics so far. As for our wizard he decided to go brigand. So right now we have SK, Sin, Dirge, Inq, Brigand ya lots of scout power. So the thought was that one of the enchanter classes would best boost the group overall.

    I would like feedback if you feel another caster or class would benefit that team setup better than an Illy or Coercer. I would be interested in the suggestions. I know I said I prefer casters but would try anything out as the team seems really excited about the change up. I know Ucala said that a swash might be even better than one of the enchanters, but don't know enough about them to see if they would actually benefit the group setup we have now better or not. Someone also suggested a DPS speced warden would be better to boost the team, but again do not know what would be best with the mix we have now.

    Thanks for all the help and comments
  13. Mountbatten Well-Known Member

    The only heroic where power is even an issue is Dominion, and even then for the last named, and even then it's doable without an enchanter. Koko is right do a degree, as sad as it is to admit (seeing as an Enchanter is currently my main). If you had a mage heavy setup then Time Warp might be nice, but since melee don't get an equivalent of that it's a moot point.

    I'll throw out another alternative of running a double bard group (i.e. a Troub), which I've personally found to be really good in heroics. Only really works though if both bards are good. It does require a little more coordination though, since you will not want to be overwriting each other's RO/VCs. Plus troub can spec for power regen for those occasions where you absolutely need it.
  14. Laserbeak Member

    Shrug. Melee GRP.. 30% or more of melee deeps is auto attack... Melee effected by cb not pot.. More cb from coey than illy?! And peaceful link.. More dehate. More crit bonus... /thread...? gg? I mean he said he needed a choice between the two types of chanters... So I still think the best for a pug'ish melee GRP....of course there is better setups. But he asked which is better for his GRP between illy and coey... I think most who are arguing otherwise are just bored.. Lol
  15. Ucala Well-Known Member

    as stated already, a coercer would be better if the sole purpose of if the tank needs help controlling hate or you need an extreme amount of power feeds.
    he already said that both of those aren't really the case in his group. so the 2 main things for a coercer aren't really needed
    so continuing to bring up the hate management thing is a moot point. it's the same reason I didn't bring up TW for illies in my first post, cause it was moot in that group.
    which makes sense. with the new fix on tank taunts and a dirge in the group, there is real no reason a tank should have aggro issues.
    the whole argument really is the CB vs pot thing.
    the whole CB boost is minimal at best for arguing. a coercer gives 5 CB to group (5 for whoever has PL) and 25 from prestige. so 35 total as long as no one dies.
    an illy gives just 5. so a coercer would only be 30 more CB then an illy.

    with the group that the OP stated (SK, inq/warden, brig/swash, dirge, assassin, and then mystery spot.
    I would put a chanter as the mystery spot. I personally would choose an illy as the spot to fill the slot.
    I will say though that if you are choosing a class to have "fun" with. a chanter is probably not the way to go.
    you could say the whole "different strokes for different folks" type thing, but as an illy myself (and used to be a coercer) I have known quite alot of the chanter community (or used to) and it's kinda just a class that people play, because other people want one.

    the OP also asked what else would be good group support, the answers would be a melee spec'd warden, a troub, or something.
    a 2nd healer would probably help cause a warden can still dps quite well if no need to heal, but you might want 2 healers if you are gonna do something like dom for the first time. (or ragefire)

    I will include that my dream 6 account group is already listed as zerker/brig/assassin/warden/dirge/illy.
  16. Laserbeak Member

    I mean 30cb is kinda a big deal for melee's but I do see your point about the illy... not to mention it seems like illys are a bit more deeps than coey's these days.. So I guess.. you're right.. its more personal preference.. and the sk will def benefit from timewarp greatly.. so yeah.. I guess its all in what you want. Plus there's no arguing that you definately know more about chanters than I do.. lol, Not to mention since the hate/taunt changes... tanks seem to be holding aggro alot better.
  17. Enursin New Member

    Thanks again for all of the feedback Ucala and others. It has been very helpful and have decided Illy is the way I am going to go.
  18. Voxom Member

    With the change to tank taunts Coercers are even more useless as a whole. Seriously this class needs a major overhaul.
  19. Abasinolanam Active Member

    My two main raiders are enchanters. My illy is fun and very high dps, but I'm also in the mage group with a troub. The coercer has been betrayed back and forth a few times, eventually landing back on coercer. When I was an illy with monk and scouts, nobody but me was using time warp, I had no target for TC (and can't put on myself) and I felt underutilized. The coercer is definitely less dps, with the exception of heroic ToV where charming aerguards or necroparsers results in massive AE dps. I find it boring to play but it has more whimsy (like being able to possess essence fun targets.)

    All that said, illy is better for your group. The warden can still charm for the massive dps, TC/TW can be used by the SK, and the PoM upgrade makes for bigger dirge VCs, increasing everybody's dps.