Where is class balance

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Yards, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. Yards Well-Known Member

    I wasn't going to make a thread about this because I thought it was common sense and was going to get fixed with first patch but I guess not.

    I'll start with the stat cap, all t1's got effected relatively the same (except warlocks took a huge hit). Scouts got a 30% increase to ca's that gave them a decent boost over mages dps. Summoners got a small boost to their pets health which gives them a small boost on dps through soulburn. Wizards got nothing and warlocks took a pretty huge hit through FC.

    Before Battle Cry all t1 scouts are ahead of mages in dps by a decent amount. Once Battle Cry is applied to a t1 scout is when the balanced gets thrown completely out of wack. Scouts are getting over 700 potency from Battle Cry and its the beginning of the expansion. With BC on t1 scouts they are doing around 40% more dps than any t1 mage. By the end of the expansion it wouldn't be far fetched if BC was giving 1.5k to 2k potency. So as it stands now this expansion is phasing out all t1 mages and troubadours.
    DoomDrake likes this.
  2. Therein Active Member

    Ever since the launch of beta I have read post after post of mages worrying about their dps.

    Scouts got a 30% increase to CAs, setting them to around the same portion of their damage from CAs as mages, which for several expansions now have been able to stack WDB and melee stats and get just as much, and sometimes more , autoattack damage than scouts were while maintaining their superior spell damage. This put T1 mages several notches over the top T1 dps. Warlocks were hitting well over 3k CB when the level cap was lvl 95, and those numbers were pushed up severely since then. Capping CB wasn't the best choice, just fixing FC to be more balanced would have been a better alternative than setting a hard cap. This effects scouts just as much, if not more than casters.

    You can't come in and say Battle Cry makes scouts overpowered because mages can receive the buff as well. Troubs can have the ability to take up an issue with this due to the fact that the Jester's Ruse dps returns aren't equal to the BC returns, but that is their own issue. ANY scout that is stacking enough MA to get 700% potency out of BC is severely starving their other stats to get to that point, especially this early in the expansion. To think people are going to hit 1.5-2k potency from it is by far a reach for class nerfing without any validity. That is 3-4k MA, that is a LOT of reforging and stat starving and will ultimately diminish their dps over all.

    Currently there are 4-5 classes that can consistantly compete with the top of the parse in raids and any one can win the parse given the right circumstances. That is far closer to balance than ANY expansion since the release of CoE. Just because warlocks aren't winning parses by 60-70% anymore does not make them garbage, it makes them balanced.
  3. Laserbeak Member

    Couldnt Agree more... Get better mages I guess? we did the last 3 mobs left in t2 last night... 2 of the fights, warlock won, the single target fight I, the assassin won... the ranger and beastlord(when he wasnt in spiritual) and wizard and conj all did FINE and were competition on the parses.. I dont get it.. Mages could literally double scouts last xpac.. and that was all cool.. now that there is actual competition...People seem very salty that they cant just loli-blast and faceroll and crush the parse? Rediculous... Id lock this thread asap... its not constructive.. its vindictive.
  4. Yards Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure what raid experience you have. Being in a top guild and playing with some of the best players I can assure you that no mages can compete with t1 scouts. Our assassin is blowing everyone out of the water followed by the other scouts then comes the t1 mages. you are oblivious if you think the 30% increase to ca's just put scouts on par with mages because that pushed them way over the top.
  5. Laserbeak Member

    Well last night we cleared t2 content... last 3 mobs. out of those 3, warlock won two.. with sin/beastlord/ranger/wizard all in striking distance...As far as experience. in the last 3 years ive played in two top 3 world wide guilds.. prior to that i played in several top 10 ww guilds. and Have been hardcore raiding since ~07-08 and been an eq2 player since dec 2004. And im here to tell you..your information is completely wrong. Just because there is competition doesnt mean its unbalanced... Unless like last xpac.. your idea of balance.. was mages sometimes doubling scouts...while simultaneously topping power feed and drain...lol.. I feel like I should quote Caith here and just say "Play better" :), Also BC can go on anyone.. So nerfing an ability that can be put on ANY class, even if there was a unbalance.. which there really isnt(have you seen warlocks on AOE fights? lol )...Is not the answer.
  6. Yards Well-Known Member

    obviously I posted before I saw you post when I talked about raid experience. Even still that doesn't change the fact it is unbalanced and scouts are completely overpowered. I understand you are a assassin and would like to keep it the way it is because it benefits you. I've talked to the scouts in my guild and they even laugh at how overpowered scouts are. Bringing up power drains is kind of funny since warlocks are like the only t1 mage that has a good power drain. Scouts all have hp debuffs while mages don't ( with the exception of necro ), so don't act like mages have all this utility because 1 mage has a power drain.. I've said my peace and I don't feel like arguing whether its unbalanced or not because it's so obvious. Like I said before if it stays like this mages will get faded out and if that was caith's intention well then he did a pretty good job.
  7. Veta Well-Known Member

    Nah, Yards, your guild's assassin is just russian :). Parsing 110m on a 2-linked encounter :p and 50-60+ on single target for these 2min+ fights in ToV gear.
  8. Laserbeak Member

    Where are mages falling out? each xpac comes out... 1 class seems to take a leader.. due to items. or rework in buffs.. or nerfs, thats just the nature of the game.. Do necro and wizzys need more help than lock/conj? yes. But dont act like there isnt plenty of different fights.. where different types of classes can shine and top parses. This isnt about me or assassin class.. The only thing I thought that was overpowered were hemotoxin and Focused casting.. and both have been dealt with. I mean I have a warlock necro assassin or even a pally.. and ive raided with all of them.. And I would go to a warlock right now if my raid leader was like this is what we NEED.. and not complain about class balance. Mages can and do top parse, in this xpac. And I think things will balance out even more as gear comes. Mogrim was seriously mad in beta.. But come live.. he worked out a few things.. worked with his group, reforged, and tried new things..and he does well. ask anyone there.
  9. ZUES Well-Known Member

    What were seeing isn't much different than AoM. Mages are now competing with swash and BL. And nobody can compete with the sin no matter what.
  10. Laserbeak Member

    lol I can see anything I say here falls upon deaf ears.... Guess you had terrible wizzys/warlock/conjys and necros last xpac. and continue to do so, this xpac.
  11. ZUES Well-Known Member

    Huh? Can't hear you.
  12. DoomDrake Well-Known Member

    Correction - not mages competing with BL and Swash - only enchanters
  13. Anunnaki Active Member


    I have never seen someone overrate a swash as much as you have been this xpac + beta.
  14. Veta Well-Known Member

    Quite sure hes guilded with one of the best necros, conjs, and wizards in game. He does not display a sig, but if I remember correctly from one of his posts I am 100% sure he is in fatality or revelations.
  15. Doomey Active Member

    imo BC is a large part of this issue. anyone that I give BC to that has reforged into a lot of MA is pretty much untouchable on the parse (including a necro the other day in a x2, granted he didn't gain as much because he didn't have a lot of MA but it is still a very powerful buff that troubs cant match).

    UT should be given a similar buff. energizing ballad is in no way equal to the BC buff. then i can betray and make plat by selling myself to mages.
    Rubyfire likes this.
  16. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    What's the conversion rate?
  17. Doomey Active Member

    50% of the targets multi attack is converted into potency.
  18. Tharrakor Well-Known Member

    Holy **** 50%?! What were they thinking?

    I was expecting maybe the same type of conversation rate as u find in the prestige. Like every 12th point of MA will convert into potency. Not every second point. Damn that needs serious nerfing!

    Even better would be to use every point of flurry will convert into 1.5% or perhaps 2% potency, thereby keeping it a scout buff while softly creating a reasonable cap. I'm all for desirable utility, but it needs to be reasonable lol
  19. Daray Well-Known Member

    Class balance probably isn't too far out of whack, but I agree, it is the single target buffs that take any disparity to a whole new level. BC and JCap on a (good) assassin will skew the numbers in a large way.
    Neiloch likes this.
  20. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    I think Doomey suggested this before that this new BC be group wide. The rate would probably need to be lowered a bit but it would also allow the Dirge to partake in the boost which would be welcomed with the new WDB and CB being capped.

    Even without purposely specing into MA I can get several hundred more Potency from BC and its single target. Its a pretty crazy boost.
    Doomey likes this.