When will they make the other (Non-Fiery Magician) Conjuror pets more useful?

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Pantz, May 8, 2014.

  1. Venur Active Member

    Its not like if it would take weeks to solve. Its also not like if conjy had to choose betwen their itemisation to be fixed or their pets. And well, scout and tank pets are broken, literaly. If they never intend to fix them they should just remove them. It just not look professional to keep them in the game if they never intend them to do anything.
  2. Sudedor Well-Known Member

    Apparently it would take quite a bit of time and effort to solve. Think about it. At a time when the development staff was three times it's current size, they knew this problem existed and decided that the effort was not worth the time it would take to correct it.

    For players leveling up, those other two pets do at times work just fine. In fact, the Mage pet doesn't really come into it's own until the Conjuror has his Mythical. Removing the other two pets would cripple leveling players.

    I simply want everyone to be realistic about this. This is such a low priority for development right now it's not even a blip on the radar. They've got 26 classes now to keep balanced. There are certainly other classes with larger problems, and in fact there are larger problems for the Summoners than the fact that only one of their pets is really a viable end game resource.

    Our energy and time is best spent on identifying and looking for fixes to the things that really do cripple the class. Those things have a hope of being fixed.
  3. Mae- Well-Known Member

    It doesn't hurt to ask. Seeing some of the posts from some of the devs, things that other devs have said would be too difficult really weren't. Perhaps fixing the melee pets really just needs another set of eyes in the code to try and figure out what is causing them to not use their abilities. We won't know if they don't even bother to look because we don't bother to ask or people like you say it isn't worth it.

    And adding melee shared stats shouldn't be all that hard, the mechanic exists already, just a matter of tagging in the additional stats so melee pets get benefits too.
  4. Venur Active Member

    SoE is not known for fixing any bug in a fast maner. They often wait for years to solve bugs and often spend time fixing stuff nobody ever asked to see fixed.

    Like I said either fix the pest or simply remove them. Their is no point in keeping something so heavely broken exept having noobs making the mistake of thinking they have the right to choose their pet.
    Mohee likes this.
  5. Pantz Active Member

    it may be an old issue brought up many times before but now that they are doing weekly updates there is a better chance that it could be changed. I've seen quite a few minor class updates since they started including for the dumbfire pets. i pay for membership with real money and even buy extra station cash with real money so i should be able to atleast say what i personally hope they would take a look at fixing. i don't complain when they fix other stuff instead.
  6. Sudedor Well-Known Member

    As I said, those pets are useful for a Conjuror leveling up. That's why they are still in the game.
    Abasinolanam likes this.
  7. Daelyte New Member

    I appreciate my earth elemental. Nuts keeps me pretty safe.... lol
  8. Abasinolanam Active Member

    The problem with "fixing" the other pets is that it could open a can of wurms (spelling intended!) If the tank pet is good enough to tank heroic content at 95 then you risk the possibility of tanks not being needed (or not preferred) and creating a class balancing mess.

    Despite the earth pet not using its abilities, if you really wanted to use it you can. To make it more effective you'd have to spec your AAs to support it. I'd say a conjy using a tank pet is as effective as a tank in defensive stance/gear/spec being used as DPS: it works in a pinch, but you'd rather have the real thing.

    As to the scout pet being a single target pet, I think that makes sense in concept. But in reality you have to ask, does that mean the conjy would do more dps on single target than they are now? While the conjy shines in AE fights, their single target dps is high. If it were much higher then other classes that lack the AE dps would be threatened. It's all a balancing act.

    I agree with Sudedor. Removing the other pets would do more harm than good.

    In the end, the conjy class is extremely powerful and from what I've read the devs think them to be in the right dps category as intended. I think at best the fighter/scout pet spells should be "fixed" so they're actually used and it can't be considered a bug anymore, but you should still have little reason to use them at max level. Even if soloing, it's better for the mob to die quicker and nobody have to tank.
  9. Tren Member

    We parsed this years ago, several of us. They have tried to fix them, but failed.

    The pets use their skills, just not intelligently.

    Either you'd have to allow them to use their CAs without interrupting the melee (which would allow them to use them properly, as the melee would not interfere with their "rotation"), or significantly boost their melee damage to bring them in line with the Wizard Pet.

    Since the Sorc pet barely ever melees, and is has CASTER NPC AI, it spams its skills and avoids much of the issue. If it melee'd, it would suck just as much :)

    We parsed the pets, both on Target Dummies in GH, in Group Content, and some of us even on Raid and Progression Content and the issue with the pets not using their CAs properly has been known for at least 2+ years now.

    And really, what would you gain from fixing them, other than perhaps the tank pet (it would do higher DPS, obviously, which would help his Agro Generation)... From a DPS perspective, there isn't much to gain by fixing the Scout Pet at this point, unless it had a very usable niche which it didn't back then and I don't see it having right now (from what I've heard about the content they've added since then).

    You can control your pet and tank or DPS better than the AI on a Summoner on the Tank/Scout Pets, but it's much harder to outperform the AI with the Sorc pet because it avoids many of the issues that plague the melee pets.
  10. Veta Well-Known Member

    If you summon your scout pet and read it's buffs it is actually aoe immune =P the buff is called turnstrike. The issue with the scout/tank pets is that they do not use any of their abilities except the ones you put aas into. Also their auto attacks are extremely horrible. If they had the ability to share auto attack melee/ranged stats with the summoner that issue would be fixed. The only issue after is getting the pets to actually time auto attacks and combat arts. With fixed autos there will be more procs of the tank stance hate (because more attack speed) and even then aggro would be easier for them to hold because of the output itself. The tank does have two taunts but the pet never uses them. The scout is just lol, uses nothing but the abilities from AAs and its auto attacks are probably that of a lvl 80 with well-equipped gear. As far as I can remember, the tank/scout pets have almost always been useless. Even the 80 mythical pet was just a mage pet. Although it was the best pet by a lot for its time and I believe the next expansion because mage pets became even more broken.
  11. Veta Well-Known Member

    EQ1 summoner, or atleast the magician (conjuror), pets are even better. They can solo almost all content except maybe the raids for their current expansion. Most of them can be used to clear raid trash before raids. The mythical weapon was actually better than the magician pet at that time and better than the next expansions pets because they were broken. I believe I was told not sharing stats properly, not engaging, or only used certain spells. Of those I believe 2 of the 3 are right.
  12. Veta Well-Known Member

    He does have a point. These pet problems have been occccuring for a long time. Although noone really casts petrify =P Vampire bats being one of our lowest dps spells and does not get any modifications through aas except the prestige triples to quadruples of its course the damage of one petrify. A couple of our aas give increased damage to magic based profession spells, i.e. the shadows and dragon tree. These do not share with out pet obviously and even if the pet cast arcane abilities they would not share because the pet, for some reason, does not share anything that has to do with increasing damage except the mythical version which was actually broken and not helping the pet for some time. ~sorry for the several posts was replying as I read through.
  13. Kalihel New Member

    I'd be happy if they not only made all pets useful, but you could buy all the old ones too (more petamorphs) I really loved the early insect pets (beetle and centipede I believe) for the conjurer and not having them kind of stifles me from playing it again.
  14. Mohee Active Member

    omg this! ^

    I've said that many times before myself and I could not agree with you more! Its so true too.
  15. Deveryn Well-Known Member

    Found a simple solution to the pet problem. Don't use all the AA abilities that fill up the pet's bar. In the case of the Necro, choose one ability out of Minion's Mark, Wrath of the Undead Servant and Minion's Soulstealing or omit them altogether. Graven abilities will fire off.

    Summoners fixed* in 2014.

    *almost ;)
  16. Nayen Member

    Yeah I found this out as well doing some tests. If you spec out of Minion's Mark, Wrath of the Undead Servant and Minion's Soulstealing your melee pets will cast their abilities 100% no problem. As you start to spec into those AAs the melee pets start to stop casting their innate abilities.

    Say you spec into Minion's Soulstealing the tank and scout pet will cast their abilities about 80% of the time, with Minion's Soulstealing and Wrath of the Undead Servant both pets will cast their abilities about 40% of the time, with all 3 aas ( Wrath of the Undead Servant, Minion's Soulstealing and Minion's Mark) the pet will cast their abilities about 5% of the time.

    So there seems to be an issues with those 3 AAs blocking the tank and scout pet for using their abilities.
  17. Sudedor Well-Known Member

    That's a really nice find tbh. I still don't think they'll fix it, but kudos for putting the work in.
  18. Pantz Active Member

    Got this exact question read to the devs live on eq2 insider "Question: When will you make the other (Non-Fiery Magician) Conjuror pets more useful?"

    The answer: "By useful like making you lunch or something?"

    So...yeah. Give up all hope on the other pets being fixed I guess. Rename class to Pyromancer or Pyroconjuror.
  19. Livejazz Well-Known Member

    From what some people say, if you spec out of Minion's Mark & a couple other AAs (not sure which ones) the pets will use all of their abilities.

    But honestly, to me what this thread is really calling for is ability consolidation. Because ...

    Why have useless abilities? 30-40 is far too many.
  20. Deveryn Well-Known Member

    I eventually got around to looking at both pet classes. These are the abilities in question: There's Minion's Mark, which applies to both classes. It's the 2nd Shadow endline. Each class also has a final shadow endline ability to be omitted at their discretion (Blazing Conjuration or Wrath of the Undead Servant). On the class tab itself, there's a Sentinel's Fate ability to consider (Minion's Soulstealing or Fury of the Elements).