When will they finaly remove full plated berserkers

Guardians have always be "The raid tank" so to speak when i started playing about 3 months after Eq2s realise i couldn't decide what class i got told if i want to tank raids then guardian because thats all they really are raid tanks for group im better off picking a berserker or crusader /shrug

and no guardians are not totally useless i know alot of guardians that still play just because 20-30 people on the board say that guards not
(not even 1% of the guardians population) does not mean they suck


Its the people like that, that just rolled a guard because they were uber unmatched tank and now they don't like it because there the same as everyone else
the same people that switched to zerkers when we had are god mode period and the same people now playing bruisers/rangers


a true zerker sticks it out no matter i may not be that high lvl but i like my berserker
although for the moment i've stuck him into retirement while i play my Assassin

hehe, well..It seems you misunderstood me a bit based on my initial post, I like my zerker and don't wan't to trade it with some other class like a bruiser ..What I do like is get Guardians up to par, so that my guild will start to use them again...and if it boils down to loosing my shield and plate in the process I would gladly sacrifice it for a good cause..But if there is other things that could solve this problem i'm all ears
Again..Do some of you honestly feel Guardians have that much better defensive capabilities than the berserkers?

/Rigge

I will never understand how some people actually expect them to change the entire look, feel, role, and function of a class more than a year after it's creation in an MMO just beause it's not exactly the way they envisioned it when they picked up the game last week or because it's not exactly the same as it was in other games that they've played in the past. Especially when there is no need for such a change. There are already plenty of other DPS classes in this game to choose from as it is (8 of them to be exact) and there are only 4 plate tanks. And a lot of people still consider Brawlers to be more DPS than tank since they can only wear leather. They can still tank when they need to of course but they are not usually preferred for it and they do get more DPS than us, or at least they are supposed to.

Also, as it has been pointed out many times by myself and others here, no one is stopping any Berserker in this game from wearing leather armor if they really want to. If that's the way you want to look then go for it. Unless you actually tank at all like you're supposed to then it's not going to really hurt you at all to sell your plate to the vendor and get yourself a nice set of leather gear. You can get leather armor that has just as good of stats on it as plate, it just doesn't have the same mitigation. But don't forget, the lighter your armor is the more avoidance you will have. That goes for all classes nowdays, not just Brawlers. Yeah, it would still be kind of dumb to sacrifice all that extra mitigation you could have if you wore plate like you are supposed to but then if all you care about is the looks of your character rather than it's actual abilities then it should be no big deal to you, right? Oh wait, the problem is you don't actually care if you can wear leather or not, you just don't want any Berserkers having the option to wear any kind of plate.

The fact of the matter is that the whole idea that SOE has for this class is to be a mean main tank that can deal out a significant amount of damage at the same time that we are taking a good beating. Our class-defining skill, the Berserk proc, has a much greater chance to go off when the Berserker is taking hits rather than just dishing them out. So the more hits we take the more damage we are capable of doing. When tanking grouped mobs we can literally be in a state of Berserk the whole fight that way. And we have to be wearing plate to be able to do that. Leather-wearing fighters have to rely on high avoidance to stay alive while tanking rather than mitigation which allows you to take more hits and withstand the damage from it. And let's face it, Berserkers were just not meant to stand behind the mobs and hit them in the back like scouts, we are meant to be right in the mob's face cussing them out. This class is all about rage. How can you display your immense rage to an enemy and not expect to draw their attention? That would be rather insulting to me. Scouts use evasion tactics and deaggro spells to perform their sneaky attacks from behind without drawing attention. That's their job, not ours. And mages use powerful ranged attacks to hit the enemies from a disance. It is our job to keep the attention of the mobs away from our physically weaker companions. Once agian, accept it or reroll.
Message Edited by infernus006 on 02-20-200604:07 PM

thark, does your guild raid? If so, what zones/mobs do you hit?

thark,
"What I do like is get Guardians up to par, so that my guild will start to use them again...and if it boils down to loosing my shield and plate in the process I would gladly sacrifice it for a good cause."
I find it hilarous that you come here to the Berserker forum to try and get support for the idea of nerfing our class just so the whiny Guardians can feel better about themselves. FYI they are not half as broken as they claim to be. What happened was before LU13 they were way too overpowered so they got nerfed down a little in the CU to be more in line with other tanking classes instead of being far superior to all the other fighters in the game like they were before. SOE said they never intended for Guardians to be that way in the first place and they needed to be fixed so they got fixed. Because of a bug with the way their buffs stacked before the change Guardians could make themselves literally invincible to taking any damage. Because of that bug no one wanted any other class to be their MT for anything, and that includes normal groups as well as raids. We would still get to tank sometimes but only if there wasn't any Guardians around. Now they got that taken away from them and they are crying just like little babies that had a lollipop snatched away and it makes me sick, especially when they try to take it out on us. Because lots of people still don't like Crusaders or Brawlers to be their MT even though they are supposed to be just as good at it as we are now. Berserkers are still the only real competitioin that Guardians have in the MT department right now, especially for raids, and they resent the hell out of us for it. And they act like they are the only ones that got any kind of nerfs in the CU as well, which isn't true at all. Before LU13, Berserkers were the aggro kings of the game. We couldn't take as many hits as Guardians but we sure as hell could keep aggro better than them and anyone else, including all the DPS classes. No one could steal aggro from us no matter what they did if we were paying any kind of attention at all. That got fixed in LU13 as well. Paladins can keep aggro better than us now with their Amends spell. Anyways, my whole main point is don't be listening to those whiny Guardians who try to make you feel bad for being a non-Guardian that actually as some chance at being just as good of a tank as them, because they are really just big selfish crybabies that want every class in the game to be totally gimped compared to them and they can't stand to play the game any other way with any kind of fairness or equality at all. I say be happy with what you got and quit trying to get your own class nerfed. That's just silly. We need to be standing up for ourselves around here and not be letting people of other classes dictate what we should and should not be able to do in this game. Guardians are just going to have to suck it up and learn to accept the fact that they aren't the be all and end all of tanking in this game any longer and learn to deal with some competition just like all the other classes in this game are forced to do.
Message Edited by infernus006 on 02-20-200604:59 PM

Berserkers and Guardians are both good tanks. Guardians are the better raid/main tanks, as their defensive buffs and almost completely defensive-oriented ability set enables them to absorb alot of damage and protect their group//raidmates.

Berserkers have better hate management because a) their taunts are better and b) they do more damage, however, their offensive buffs (obviously) dont have the defensive impact of a Guardian's. The fact that they can wear vanguard doesn't change the fact that they are very offense-based. With all their buffs up and with berserker state procced, they can attack many times as fast and do loads of damage. They're good off tanks.


So... they're still good damage dealers, they're still "REAL berserkers". And They don't make Guardians obsolete. If you don't like the vanguard, don't wear it. No one is forcing you to.
Message Edited by BraveSmart on 02-20-200601:50 PM

Well, last time we raided we took Lookjaw and Barakah and the SilverDragon in Majdul

If you do zones like courts, fighting mobs like sunchild and blackqueen will show you the differences between guardian and berserker, contested barakah in POF, djinn master, pedistal of sky

he's prolly thinking of eq1 as there berserkers wore chain and was a dps class that only had the ability to wield 2h weapons.

I allready (tried to) tank blackqueen, because our guardian would die in seconds after his tower of stone was used up. I stood a lot better than him, only problem was the queen nuking for up to 9k heat dmg. Same with sunchild which also deals heat damage. It really sucks that most high end raid mobs do heat damage so that guardians are automatically the better (and in this case only) choice.

I have tanked them too, but guardians can absorb alot of hits with their abilities, have more taunts, it is obvious against higher mobs. I can and have tanked everything in the game, so not saying berserkers can't. The black queen doesnt have a heat dd, not when we fight her at least.
Message Edited by Khalad on 02-20-200606:14 PM

usually always raid MT here (except specific mobs) and to me a good tank is someone who knows his class inside out and knows not only how to play it but to play it well which I feel I do to the best of my abilitys.

Sometimes its not about the class but more about the person, Someone who knows what they are doing and not a complete idiot..

But this post = incredibly useless..

Infact I get the impression more that you are a very annoyed guardian who dosent like the fact that we can tank just as well as you can yet we can do alot more damage... sorry deal with it and stop listening to whiny face guardians who are no longer god mode main tanks. Boo hoo for them, take it to the guardian forums, im sure those guys will love you over there. I like my plate and can only hope its here to stay and wouldnt give it up for the world.

my point of post = quit whining, take your post to the guard forums where this will just drown into yet another "omg my guard is no longer the be all and end all of the tanking classes"
Message Edited by R2Chief2 on 02-20-200609:02 PM

The problem then thark, and I am not trying to insult anyone, may be the guardians in your guild and their lack of skill or lack of knowledge of their class. The top guilds in the game right now, most of them seem to have a berserker tanking quite a bit, but all have a guardian MT. Most are lashing out due to the title of the post. If you feel how you say you do, this should be on the guardian forum and be talking about what the class needs, not totally changing the roll of another.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I hope they will remove the silly full plate and shield on the berserker class, I didnt choose a zerk to run around in full plate,..Right now the Berserk class renders guardians totally useless...Why in the world did SOE come to the conclusion berserkers needed vanguard aswell..

I like to play a REAL berserker..not a tank..

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



One advice, read the manual before you choose your class, it says there you can wear heavy plate armor.

If you wanted to play a non-plate class, you have a lot of options, reroll.

One advice to you is to read the entire thread not just the first post, and yeah read the manual ...and tell me what it sais..
/Rigge

Frank Frazetta painting, "The Berserker", have had on my desktop for awhile. Looks pretty nuts to me, charging into a mess of monsters like that not wearing full plate but look, he's using a shield. Personally, the idea of us losing the ability to use a shield is dumb. I have one and rarely use it, except when I tank and I'm glad I have it. My gear isn't uber so any advantage I can get when it happens I'm asked to tank (which I gladly do), I'll take. I feel for your crusade to make guardians fun again, but take it to their boards. The berserker class is fine, we don't need silly ideas like yours floating around. This is SOE's game and in their minds berserkers can wear heavy plate armor. The Conan MMORPG should be out later this year, maybe that game will have your ideal berserker class. You don't like it, do as others have said, don't tank if you don't want, don't use a shield if you don't want, don't wear plate if you don't want; but as a fellow berserker, you should not be on this board calling for some kind of nerf of our class.

Message Edited by Driverdown on 02-22-200602:27 AM

Doesn't look like he's wearing plate on the picture

In this debate, was this picture the best you could do, a half naked man with a small shield, well probably because you will have to search very hard for a berserker with heavy vanguard or plate with a shield, probably an impossible mission..

But again, aren't we grown ups, that can have a discussion, no matter where, or do I sence an actual fear of nerfs from one persons opinion...

/Rigge