Topanga@Everfrost wrote: Trust me for healers it's way more than the green numbers are over the MT's head instead of the mob. You are constantly looking for people getting whacked by AE's, or who get aggro or are killing them selves with some AA so that they can do some uber DPS/heal. You are also constantly looking for whoever needs cures and trying to do that all while healing and trying to do DPS. As a warden I don't have debuffs but some healers have huge debuffs so they add that into everything I mentioned above. The healer is the most intensive class I have played. Tanks who have a role are also intensive. Trying to grab and hold aggro off mobs, adds, using whatever tricks they have to stay alive and keep their DPS up. They usually have to worry about special abilities of the mobs more because they almost always effect them (no jousting/ranged for them). Tanks who have no role and are just there to DPS well yeah that's probably boring button mashing. DPS classes. If they are good, they have learned balance and know how to reach their upper limits of DPS potential without drawing aggro too often off the tank. Caster DPS classes have some often needed utility like mana shards/hearts or cures to name a few. Many of our casters are tasked for curing so they are often curing accross raid groups depending on who calls out in raid or voice. The melee DPS are often having to joust, watch their aggro, sneak in their debuffs and may be on add search for some encounters. They are probably the least intensive and if the mobs have no special abilities I can see them being button mashers. Bards are much like the the melee DPS without the DPS. They really don't have to switch out their buffs that often. Most of their debuffs last a long time and have long ranges so they don't have to worry about them quite as much, Dirges can rez but if they don't a some other class usually steps up, Dirges get 1 heal that might help but isn't missed usually. COB might get missed. On hard fights they need to concentrate a bit more and on easy fights they really can just kick back. Bards don't get to try and unload increased DPS like most of the other classes can when they don't have to do other things. (for example healers who don't have to heal go full DPS usually and often some of them can make some impressive parses. The running joke during raids is if the Dirge makes the parse it's because the DPS slacked so he/guild usually teases with something like "[I cannot control my vocabulary], I know you guys are slacking when the dirge makes the parse!". Oh and having those orange numbers bigger would be more exciting during trash. At least they could do what the other DPS classes do and have little DPS/parse wars. They would never make the top 5 but they might make the top 10 once in awhile and compete with the healers/tanks who usually bounce around there.
Well if the dirges are running jokes in your raids, don't take them. See your dps drop, or better yet, bring paladins to rez your dead when needed. To be honest, you would probably like the Vanguard bard, and that game is part of your station account...
Findical wrote: Your problem is that somewhere along the way you've picked up this notion that Bards are studio musicians. They're not and never have been in any game where playing a bard class was worth playing a bard class.
Dagator wrote: haha still missing the point. I know dirges bring DPS to others, so do inquis and fury and enchanters and mystics and ... well you get the idea. The point is if SOE gave dirges a DPS boost to bing them in line with brawlers, zerkers, inquis, ect(which is not a lot since they are a scout class that USED to out DPS all these classes) then they'd have more to do and be a more enjoyable class. Right now they toss in their long duration debuffs, and just click COB when it's up. Maybe they do a rez/heal once in while. After that their DPS sucks so that they rarely make the parse on their best days. Right now almost every other class is enjoying being able to push to see where they fall on the DPS parse, heal parse or both. Even the other so called 'utility' classes like illusionist/coercers frequently make the DPS parse. There's really no reason to have bards (scouts) have their DPS stop advancing at the same pace all the other classes do.
The difference of 4 bards parsing or auto follow buffing is going to be in the range of 4-5k damage... its the difference between 25-30k rw parses and 30-35k rw parses. If you have/are a bard that doesn't try to do damage and you have 3 like-minded bards in your raid force you're gimping your raid force of roughly 1/6-1/7th of its potential output. I don't see what the issue is- cast buffs, help your raid force, rezz dead people, put up the best numbers you can, and stop complaining. Also next tier I do realize there will be some issues with our damage spells all being old tier, but considering the large portion of the raiding bard community has realized this it seems like Sony should also, and should implement measures to see that we're kept on track dps wise. Right now I really don't see us as underpowered.
I started at launch and left right afrer DoF came out. I came back jsut recently after someone on the SK boards for EQ1 told me about the changes, and I love it. I have a high level high end raiding SK in EQ1, and I have my Dirge here. Since I have been back I have gone from 32 to 41 before my deployment started, and love almost every minute on my Dirge. I have a friend that I always play with, who went from 29 to 42 in the same time on his SK, and just the two of us are able to do all sorts of stuff. We recently completed almost all the lower half of Steamfont (a few heroic quests that we can't duo) and are still loving it. The Dirge was never a dull moment for me. I love everything about it. I did leave for a bit, but not because of the class--it was a combination of the lack of friends (they all went to WoW) and the older game mechanics that have been changed. Maybe Dirge is not up your alley? Have you tried any other classes?
Well I think I understand with what the OP is saying, and I agree that the Dirge maybe lacks that attention-grabbing rock star quality, and is more like the behind the scenes roadie making everyone else look good, occasionally playing Stairway to Heaven during the sound checks. But with the game mechanic as it is, I'm not sure there's much they could do to change that. I haven't raided, but playing in groups I don't just set and forget my buff line and put myself on auto-follow while I watch everyone else. I'm throwing down encounter debuffs, single target debuffs, some CA's and spells. I'll position around and do a flank shot, or shoot a couple arrows, or steath and scout ahead, track something down, unlock chests, whatever. I'd hardly say my dirge life is a snooze-fest. That comment about trying a Vanguard bard is a good one. Their system is truly unique and you'd probably get a kick out of it.
I have 2 lvl 70 toons. A zerker with about 63 AAs, and a ranger with 100 AAs. I raid with both. With the zerker, if you are not MT/MA, you are just dead weight. If I go into DPS mode (use my AoE abilities, juggernaut, etc) I can put up some pretty decent numbers up to the point I get killed for getting agro. Of course I live a bit longer when I pull agro thanks to the plate, but unless I get my group healer to heal me, I die just the same. Then I strut back casting my buffs, all proud of my dps while I lived. "see me pull agro off the main tank on the two off mobs? yeah, I kick butt!" Wish I had something useful to spend AAs in in regards to EOF so I actually had incentive to get 100 AAs. Currently, I have 7 points in regen. WTF ?? With my ranger, when the call comes to buff up, I cast my 1 group buff. Pathfinding. YAY ! everyone in my group runs 16% faster!. Unless of course I spent points in the aa, then it is up to 46% faster. Thats it, my group buff. 2 conc slots taken at 70. I am a buff machine! I love helping my group survive, or at least run back to the point of wipe faster now. Oh yeah, I do have another CA that effects someone else. I can shoot the mob with an arrow, and the very next char that hits him, gets more agro. As a ranger, the ONLY thing I bring to a raid is faster running back in case of wipe, and DPS. Don't think that run buff gets me in the raid. Lets not talk about poisons and arrow cost. Some folks complain about the cost of repairing their fabled gear, I cry at the thought of having to refill my quiver from empty. I taunt the raid leader with tells saying "we are wiping, evacing now !" They don't see the amusement. I am raising up a dirge. Man, by lvl 18 I think I had more "songs" that I could have active at any one time! Sure, I don't kill things as fast as say a ranger or a swash (another alt I am trying) of the same level, but geez, I can BS the mob to death with all the crap I throw at it. DPS is a bit lower, but I have more to do than snare, run, hit ranged combat art, run, snare, run some more, snare resists, die. I feel like a troll shaman-FROSTSHOCK ! Lovin the dirge. I went dirge specifically for the dps buff. Troub has haste, and everyone has haste. Plus, always being a melee char, I don't want to help out those dang mages in any way, shape, or form. DPS BUFF BABY ! yeah ! Guildies are sending me tells "dude, give you 50 gold to be in my group" Ok, that is a lie, but dang it, they should, I have a DPS BUFF BABY ! I am like the ice cream man, I got product for everyone !
