Well i have to agree i chose predater cuz i wanted to be a ranger i didnt get to see the skills past level 20 until i was level 16 looking at the ranger skills they do all seem bow based.. ) Now at 20-30 thats not really a problem cuz im sure your skills like shadow blade and that will still be quite effective in melee.. but after level 30 i can see a very big problem for rangers if they can only deal good damage with a bow and anyone thats tried kiting knows its well its just not good.. You cant run forward cuz you cant see the mob to shoot at it.. so you have to run backwards when you cant actually see where your going so you dont know if your going to pick up agro or not .. suppose you do run forward so you can see where your going you have to stop and stand stil lto use a bow special by which time the mob is on you and our getting spammed with your too close to the mob.. I really want to be a ranger but i would like a balance of bow and melee skills, i dont want the UBEREST melee skills but i would like to think that at level 35 say i can hold my own in melee combat cuz if i can only rely on bow at that level rangers are pretty much excluded from dungeons / coves or any confined spaces or even spaces with lots of agro mobs.. I have big concerns at the moment, i will go ranger and see how it plays but i really hope i dont end up having to reroll to a useful class that is welcomed in groups and that can solo.. OH im in quenos so i dont really have much choice but to go ranger... im not sure if i have to betray quenos to become an assasain.. OOh im so confused.. I dont want to rely on a class that is no use whatsoever if the servers get laggy.. but i also want my pet Hawk and panter.... .
O.K. I don't get involved in these flame fests as a general rule but I just had to point something out. Could you be anymore concieted? Nobody gives a Ratonga's backside how high of a level you are or if your the highest level ranger in game. You keep posting and making Griz's argument more and more valid by sounding like a condecending, concieted, overbearing individual. Keep in mind I'm not calling you this but your posts make you sound like that. Guess what? I don't care if your a lvl 50 ranger. You will never be the best at anything because you blow your own horn more than Dizzy Gillespy at a jazz festival. Any opinion you have, no matter how valid or correct, is overshadowed by the way you come across.
You know why my point is more valid? Because I have experience playing a Ranger past beta. You know why my level is important? Because I have more experience playing Ranger past beta. You know why I get to blow my own Horn, because I contribute more help to more ranger, and rangers to be than most others do. So you know what? Piss off. I get people that will join my server to ask questions, or send me tells from other servers / EQ for questions. I get to blow my own god **bleep** horn, because I earned the right. If you don't like my attitude, you can go ahead and cram it up your butt. My points are valid because I actually AM a ranger, and Griz is NOT. Message Edited by Kagara on 11-17-2004 09:30 AM
I rest my case. I played a ranger during beta. I know some of your points are valid. The fact that you have more levels than anyone else right now doesn't make you the end all know all. You, sir, have a serious attitude problem. It bleeds over into your posts and makes you sound like a blowhard. I appreciate the fact that you are a ranger now. I know the class is powerful. I played one all through beta. This does not change the fact that, due to your attitude, alot of people do not consider your points valid. This is, possibly, why Griz is giving you such a hard time. Just food for thought. By the way your insults and suggestions as to what to cram up my butt, while quite humerous, just proves the fact that your taking this too personally. It's a game and nobody has to give you respect. You earn it. You, sir, have not earned one iota of respect from me. Like I stated before I played a ranger throughout beta and there isn't anything you can tell me about them I don't already know. I wish you good luck and safe travels and I hope that eventually you will realize you aren't God at EQ2 and your contributions are not God like. Show some humility man. In the end people will respect you more.
I have a couple of problems with this post. First, regarding the comments I have highlighted in Red...You are precisley the exact opposite of right. This statement was a foolish one, you should have considered the context of our discussion before making it. The level that he is has an INCREDIBLE bearing on the conversation, because we're discussing the efficacy of the ranger class, something that isn't determined completelyuntil level 40 - 50, but doesn't even BEGIN to be determined until level 25 or so. So yes, him saying that he's a level 24 - 25 ranger has bearing. We care because it lets us know that he is speaking from a position of authoritative knowledge, not out of his backside. So your primary assertion is bunk. As far as the blue, "I'm not calling you this" -- that is precisely the opposite of what you're not doing. Not able to follow that sentence? Let me rephrase; YES YOU ARE! in the green text you call him that. If you HADN'T called him it, you wouldn't be able to say you weren't calling him it. Don't BS about "Well thats just how it sounds, I'm not SAYING it, I'm just saying he seems that way." If you're going to insult someone, insult them. Don't pussyfoot around it. But if you insult them, dont' say you didn't just, in the sentence immediately following the insult. And if you decide to join flame wars, please to be joining the side that: a) didn't start it b) has more grounds for their beliefs c) is right xoxo, blitz
an A for reading comprehension. I digress. You are correct and he is correct. I am wrong and the Norrath revolves around him. You should not. a. read my post and see that I am not disagreeing with his knowledge b. Understand the fact that I never called him any name. Merely pointed out how he was coming across. c. Really don't care if he thinks he is God and you believe him.
Ok, this is about all I am saying on this in regards to Reichaval. I am refuting Blitz's theory, with what I know from actual experience. I don't think I am god, but I for sure have more to say on the way things actually are. At the time of most of what I wrote in this thread, I was the ONLY ranger in eq2. Now more people are leveling and realizing that yeah I am right. This is a thread about comparing FACT to Theory. But thank you for joining the thread, taking it off course, and for some reason thinking that anyone cares about how you think I sound. Way to introduce yourself to the boards...
Actually I'm not introducing myself to the boards. I was quite active in the beta boards. I also had quite a post count until they reset everything so introductions are not necessary. I did not hijack your thread. I merely pointed out why people may not want to listen to your advice. Take it however you want it. I never called you names or said what you were saying wasn't true. I just said the way you were coming across may leave people a little raw. Dont even look down your nose at me and act like I haven't provided anything to the boards. During beta I had countless productive posts that helped iron out issues with the scout/predator/ranger class. You are not above me. You just have more time to play on a day to day basis it seems. I agree that having your levels does give you the knowledge, to a degree. I agree that what you are saying is true about the Ranger class. I know it's true. Like I said I played one in Beta. I can't speak for other players I'm just saying you rubbed me wrong. Whatever, that's just my opinion and perception of your posts. To continue with the topic of the thread since you think I'm hijacking. The ranger class is, possibly, one of the most prolific soloers in game at the moment. I had no problem in beta using a bow and taking on pretty much anything my level and sometimes yellow. So, yes, Griz is incorrect in his theory that Rangers "suck". I will also finish this post by saying the highest melee hit during beta was done by a swashbuckler but on a day to day basis the top melee damagers on the beta servers were predators/rangers/swashbucklers. Message Edited by Reichevel on 11-17-2004 10:57 AM
I never said vyspel was God. Just..you know. A god. hahaha. Don't worry Reichav, we're really much nicer than this, you just hit on a tender spot.. What class do you play? Ranger I assume? Vysp -- I'm using a sword you discovered! I just got the blackened iron rapier and the oakmyst forged sabre, and ONE of those two, was discovered by Vyspel of Mistmoore (I don't remember which one) Pretty stoked to see what my DPS will be with them, since they are med dmg/ med-low delay.
You know why the above is total crap? Because the only differences between the current version and the end of beta are disarm traps and tracking range. You know why your level doesn't matter? Because I was higher level when I stopped playing my ranger than you are now.
Well then you are an idiot. I have no problems soloing creatures 3-4 levels higher than me, and can on occaision solo a blue ^^. What is so bad about that?
One star? I take back anything nice I said about you Griz. You gave me a 1 star rating because I flamed you? You never rate someone when they're flaming you, just because you don't like getting flamed. OH. I'm so pissed about that. GAH. So lame. Here's something to give me a 1 star rating for; Low-balling someones rating is the last stab of the utterly uninspired. That level of creativity most commonly associated with particularly smart forms of Fungus and mentally **ZOMG** rats. The kind of thing that a child would do to spite an older child after being thoroughly bested on some matter or another. You don't disappoint me; to disappoint would require an initially high oppinion, which I was never burdened with, but you do enrage me with your stupid antics. I can't believe you'd do something so imbecilic as to strike out with a rating, rather than actually defending yourself. But I guess you can only do what you're capable of. And sewer rats aren't notorious for their "utility" are they? Or their DPS. I hate revisiting closed issues, but when you pull this business, well Grizzy, I won't let it lie. Because it pisses me right off, thats what it does. So how 'bout this, next time you feel like being a little whelp, try to sack up and be a man first. Speak out, instead of stabbing out from behind the safety of presumed anonimity. Do I mind getting 1 star if my posts are crap? No. Do I mind getting 1 star because I hurt your feelings? Well, I'd actually Expect it, from...you know..a little girl. Not a man. Not a mighty bard. I expect I'll get one star for this post as well.
Just finished reading the thread. I am sure most parties consider it a dead issue at this point but I do have a question. I have started a Scout and I intend to become a Ranger. I just made my first bow and a bunch of tin arrows on the Isle of Refuge. It took me a lot of effort to do so. The Elm bow is normal quality as are the arrows. It took me a moment to locate the 'Range Attack' icon and move it down to my attack hotbar. I went out and found a nice blue solo mob and took my shot. It did 2 damage and the mob zinged up and started wailing on me. It took me half of the fight to recover, realize I was not attacking for some insane reason and start attacking with my dagger again and kill the dumb thing. What I am really saying is that this preview of ranged Bow combat really and truly sucked. My sneak attack on non-aggro mobs does 20 damage and my ambush while stealthed mobs does similar plus has a nice but short range involved. So the idea that using my newly made bow to initiate a counter would cost me a ton of upfront damage and throw off teh natural flow of tactics so badly has me rattled. I hear the folks saying 'play it or not' and 'wait for the endgame' but I must say I respectfully disagree with those options. I do not play the endgame. I am too slow, a casual player you know? I do not want to play another class, not because I can't but because I will have invested a lot into this character by the time I learn the hard truths. So, I just want to hear that ranged Bow combat works well and does great damage and I will be happy. Does it? Thanks, Dragonkai
People say "play it to the endgame" but they aren't talking about BEGINING to experience bow use, they're talking about knowing what rangers are truly capable of. The only problem with your disappointment in bows on the IoR, is that you aren't a ranger. You're a Scout...scouts were never meant to use bows. Predators are barely even meant to use bows. So I agree, "play it to endgame" doesn't cut it; but before level 15 at LEAST, you aren't even at the START of the game. It's hard facts, but you have to break your teeth before you start to have a decent bite, and that encompasses the first 15 or 20 levels of the game. You'll see in other posts people talking about the damage they do...I'm nothing special, mid 20's and will be for a while, I try to play for an hour or so each night unless my Fiancee really needs attention...but I've done Backshot's for 200 dmg. To further illustrate this point; my roommate has a 20 monk, his highest special is 70 damage. My Lowest special often hits for 70 damage. By the mid 30's we are equipped (as in, have enough bow CA's) to use bows exclusively, though it is still effective to melee often. Additionally, my STANDARD bow shots (not CA's) land from 20 - 50, whereas my standard melee hits for around 9 - 20. This is with Arrell's crappy bow of Alacrity, like I said, nothing special. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but you must understand that at level 6, pure casters can tank as well as Fighters and healers can nuke as hard as casters...you can't base Anything about this game on pre-10, and not MUCH on pre-25, which isn't REALLY the endgame. I consider myself a newbie ranger. Even as a newbie ranger my bow based damage is nothing to scoff at, and if I run out of Makeshift arrows everyone knows it. You really can't judge the ranger class based on level 6. I'll leave you with this. I can't tell you everything about the class, I don't know it all, but I can assure you that if a Ranger is what you want to be, you won't be disappointed with the bow, how it works or how much damage it does. I bet Kagara would be willing to share the kind of damage he does with a bow and the sort of combat he's experiencing at level 40, with Vyspel, if you asked him. xoxo, blitz
I am only a level 22 ranger and still have a lot to learn about playing my class as effectively as I can, but am having a blast and performing well in groups so far. I know we lost our druid side, and can deal with it, but I REALLY miss not having wolf forms. :smileysad: I really like the idea of slowly increasing the speed of our stealth move as we level and also that of pathfinding( if it doesnt work that way already) Otherwise, Iam content so far. I just need to get more comfortable and proficent playing the class. I had a quick question about flipping the coin. How do we do it? What do we press to have a chance to change the final outcome? I see then coin icon on the wheel, but not sure what to do next. I am also having trouble soloing the occasional even con solo mobs. I guess I need more practice with the bow and need to find one with a longer range. Anyone have a recomendation of one to look for at 22 that will last a bit. I've read many of the posts from my class brothers and they have been very helpful, so thanks! :smileyhappy:
I'm lost...this entire thread is from a Bard that doesn't like Rangers? Let me get this straight, you play a flute tooting flamer and your mad because the Ranger is a sexier beast then you? I'm confused still... Then again I'm also confused as to why you expect to be able to take mobs two levels above you face to face as a class that is designed around stealth and element of suprise. Now again we also apparently have no buffs...lets see as a 21 Ranger I have Hunters Instinct, Blade Furry, Pathfinder...and everyone loves Pathfinder outdoors trust me. No dots? I have Bleed (Adept 3...50 dps) and whichever flavor poison I craft for myself that day, the red colored ones usually taste the best. My only complaint is that my hawk is basically useless, other then that, I consistantly dominate in melee. I tend to group with people 2-3 levels higher then me because I do as much damage as they do to mobs their level...I only have apprentice 3's on most of my abilities, save like 3. As a 21 ranger I hit for 150-230 with Backshoot or ShadowBlade... I personally own...sorry your Bard can't sing his scales properly, might want to look into Lip-sync <3
This was a lot of fun reading. I read it cause I did not understand the "flaw" about a ranger and it turns out there really isn't any (other than the normal ones associated with all MMO rangers, in that no one really knows what Ranger should be), but one guy makes an opinion and refuses to give up on it. Just when you think he is done and his face is full of mud, after some really nice posts by Bozack, Reichevel slams Kagara from out of no where. What was that? This totally takes Grizz of the pedestal of shame and now this flame war between Reichevel and you would think Kagara ensues, but no, Blitz decides to be Kagara's champion. Interesting to say the least. I think SOE did something very smart, they defined what they believe is a ranger. That is the first part. Otherwise there is too many figures in lore to see what a ranger is? Here are some examples: 1. Robin Hood (which version?) mainly was a knight who (speaking in Dnd terms) had an incredible thac() and decided to make bow his weapon of choice. Why? because he mainly lived in the woods and it is an idea weapon for that environment if you are outnumbered. There was no sneaking and stealth about him. 2. Aragorn is a bit different. Trained by ranger elves he is stealthy, good with a sword but not as good Boramir, good with a bow but not as good as Le-god-los (I love the scene with the wargs). If anything Aragorn wasn't a ranger he was a knight who had ranger-type training. 3. Martin Longbow. The magician series. I don't think martin ever picked up a sword. He is probably the greatest ranger that I read or heard about. He did have stealth ability but very little melee ability. 4. The Classic DnD ranger. He had very little stealth but as to his affinity toward a bow was no greater than a sword. However, they introduce the hallmark concept of "hated enemy". 5. 3.5 Ranger. Here you see the authority in defining a class give up. They basically said, either fight two-handed or fight with a bow. Can't have both (unless you choose to be a human fighter and then you can have all those feats). I know I am forgetting many famous rangers but the point being, other than some general woodsman idea or a person who has a loner personality, bow, sword, stealth, bravado... there was no real recipe. The good thing SOE did is they offered a general discription of a ranger and seems to be following it. I hate to address it but the button mashing... Now I suck at twitch games, if I knew I had to use so much dexterity to hit or "mash" so many buttons in a single freaken encounter as well as hitting the "auto-attack" button off so many times, I would have played a more sedate class. Kagara is right. You have to have some skill to mush the buttons right. You ever try that "cheap shot", hit auto attack button, jump over mob, all in the span of 3 seconds and hit shadowblade? That is not easy!!! Maybe I am old, but that is not easy at all. As for groups: Small groups, two or three total, is a bit rough and a ranger doesn't contribute as much as the others. In a large group, 5 or 6 they are a heck of a lot of fun. I ensare mobs that go after spellcrafters, shoot them with backshot (150 to 200 damage), then go back to sneak attack, shrounded strike, (any of the sneak required attack) combo. Rangers and do a lot cause all their skills are like 2 or 3 seconds it seems. I mean I am pushing a button all the freaken time! I don't know if it is balanced or not cause I only play the ranger. But how do you compare apples to oranges? I just don't understand how one does that. It is just a matter of preference. If you don't like apples and prefer oranges why go to the apple forum and tell everyone you hate apples? I think I am gonna go on the bard forum and start talking about how much the bard sucks. Ok, slacked from work too much.
I quitted playing EQ2 on Thursday Dec. 2.: I stripped my character of all his equipment, gave it to a friend for him to sell, left my guild and has only been fooling casually around since then. On the aforementioned date, I finally dinged 20 and could call "myself" a ranger. Alas, the long awaited moment turned out to be a major disappointment... At level 20, I found my damage output was poor: Even though I was constantly draining my power pool, I was no where near being able taking aggro from tanks. My Berserker friend, being one level lower, was doing far more damage to mobs than I was. Moreover, leveling was, and had for some time been, SLOW. At level 17 I grouped with three level 16s, one level 15 and a cleric level 13. The cleric dinged twice during our group session, all the others dinged once. I started the session with 8% xp and ended it with 93%. At level 19 I announced to my group I had 3% left to ding. The level 20 Shaman in the group then said he had 4% left to reaching his next level. Still, he dinged about 10 mobs before me... In addition to this: due to some soloing, a firm belief in NBG and high costs buying arrows (I normally bought iron hunting arrows, costing about 6s per stack: I felt obliged when grouping to trying to do proper damage), I was literally broke; I could only afford one apprentice 2 upgrade to the new skills I had acquired, my dual wielding weapons were grey, most of my equipment green, 1 item blue, and 2 yellow. Admittedly, I had spent some coin improving tradeskills, I had a few items I could sell, and I know that there are cheaper arrows to buy. But still: I was experiencing harsh economic restrictions whilst most of my friends at the same level was looking forward to getting their first gold piece... When hearing the nearly unanimous praise of the ranger class, I'm left wondering where I did go wrong... I chose to play a Wood Elf scout/predator/ranger after having studied the game manual thoroughly. I now know, however, that the manual is totally unreliable, and that Wood elves do in fact not have the starting attributes indicated therein...But surely this can not be the explanation to my failure as a ranger? I was always using poison when fighting (think it was called "Addictive goo" or something), I regularly cast Blade Flurry and Hunter's Instinct before fights, and I normally started off fighting with a stealthed Shadowblade attack, quickly followed by Bleed, Impale, Shrouded Strike, Pierce and occassionally Cheap Tricks. Then I withdraw a bit, utilising Back Shot, Open Shot and Wounding Arrow, before engaging in melee again with Sneak atttack, and another round of Shrouded Strike, Bleed, Pierce etc. I kept repeating this routine until either the mob was dead or I was out of power. Most of my skills were app3, some only app2. After having played two different characters to level 20, I've only seen one ranger adept drop so far... What I'd really like to know is: What classes have you guys chosen for your rangers, what strategies do you use when fighting in groups and how do you go about maximising damage; in other words how do you succeed playing a ranger? Message Edited by Nimanael on 12-06-2004 04:47 PM
For some reason, my posting appeared twice, so I've just edited the text here... Message Edited by Nimanael on 12-06-2004 04:49 PM
