What do the dirges want?

Discussion in 'Dirge' started by ARCHIVED-Whysprr_Wyrd, Sep 24, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-xsikal Guest

    I want hotter clothes. But that's only dirge-related because I have a dirge. :)
  2. ARCHIVED-greenmantle Guest

    Whysprr@Kithicor wrote
    Rofl love your sense of humor Whysp, hmm wish list.
    1: Some mitigation would be nice. a chain wearer should be able to take a few hits, duoed with a warden and the leather healer was better tanking than the chain scout.
    2: Some dps, kinda sad to be out parsed by healers.
    3: Instruments that people would actually use
  3. ARCHIVED-Gutterfly Guest

    Final AA choices:
    Battle Cry to be able to cast on self and additionally, someone else in raid, not just limited to group.
    Disease Mastery to effect all our disease based goodies (including CoB and Deaths Edge procs, CA's).
    Additional AA concept:
    An AA choice that turns Wail into a moderate damage disease based pbae nuke, instead of just an interrupt (and effected by DM).
    *damage to work on epics, but not interrupt*
    Add a power cost and casting time equal to penetrating shriek to compensate for the added damage.
    There are plenty of **** AA choices in the shadow lines this could replace.
    Raid set gear:
    +skills instead of subjugation (or would it be ordination, sorry not logged in to check and cant remember because it pissed me off so much).
    More DA and melee crit / crit multiplier instead of spell crit.
    Screw hostile spell reuse effects, CA reuse would be much better, imo.
    Screw beneficial spell reuse, we are not healers so healing classes can dps.
    Basically, make us want to upgrade to this gear for its stats/effects and not want to slit our wrists because we're getting less damage and adding critical mitigation.
    In sumnation,
    ...most of all, I'd like people to quit qq'n and getting us nerfed because they 'think' we are Overpowered.
    Cry and bite the pillow to get your class fixed, not nerf everyone else's down to their lvl of uselessness.
  4. ARCHIVED-Kall Guest

    Dirge Issues I've posted:
    Questions:
    Where is enhance bump in the Bard Tree so Grim Strike lines up with it?
    Why do Assassin's get a 40+% increase to their best CA, Death Mark, and neither of our best 2 abilities (Scream of Blood and Banshee) are even on the AA list. As a matter of fact, they have yet to appear on any of our AA trees.
    Why is Dissonant Requiem's casting time still 2.5s for only ~1K AE damage?
    Why does Sacrificial Oration cost 5 points to remove the stifle when Assassin's Killing Blow costs 1 point for the FULL Deathblow proc?
    Why is Battle Cry still not self castable? There is clearly no benefit to cast it on yourself when raiding or grouping, so this only comes down to a hindrance in solo play.
    Why does Intoxicating Notes not proc on ANY attack?
    Why does Disease Mastery affect less than 50% of our total disease damage?
    How come Lanet's Scream doesn't benefit from Disease Mastery?
    Why, for the third expansion in a row, are our best AAs passive buffs instead of active abilities?
    What are AAs should have been:
    -Replace Deathly Howl with Banshee.
    -Replace Vile Blade with Scream of Blood.
    -Disease mastery still needs a lot of work.
    -Improve Dissonant Requiem's casting speed some way whether it's from AAs or adjusting the spell manually. The 25% from Disease Mastery isn't nearly enough.
    -Nerf Battle Cry by 5% DA but make the flurry component affect both the Dirge and the recipient.
    -Bard tree needs Bump in it or the AA needs to be adjusted to 20s recast.
    -Rework the 2 +skills buffs in the Bard tree and come up with something else.
    What the Dirge Tree Shadow Tree should have looked like:
    Bard Tree
    =======
    Add Enhance Bump - increase base damage and accuracy by 5%, improves reuse by 2s per rank. (This would allow Bump and Grim Strike/Night Strike to have the same reuse.)
    Drop Defensive Ballad - Completely useless for Troubs. It's also redundant as we can already enhance it via KoS STR line AAs.

    Dirge Tree
    ========
    Add Enhance Dissonant Requiem - Increase casting speed by 20%, increase base damage by 10% per rank. (This spell really needs this much help for it to be useful. It currently has an absurd cast time to damage ratio and is rarely used.)
    Add Enhance Banshee - Shortens duration by 10%, increase base damage by 5%, improves casting speed by 5% per rank.
    Add Enhance Scream of Blood - Shortens duration by 10%, increase base damage by 5%, improves reuse by 2s per rank
    Add Enhance Gravitas - Adds enhance 2% hostile spell damage per rank.
    Drop Deathly Howl - Disease Mastery already affects it + it's in the EoF tree
    Drop Vile Blade - It's just not that good
    Drop Defensive Curse - This AA sucks

    Raid Set Gear:
    Why is our legendary set better than our raid set? Where is the haste on the gloves? Where is the CoB increase on the chest? +slash, pierce? Why did the removal of Percussion of Stone's concentration slot get moved to our chest which is the best piece of gear outside of set gear? The new 2 set Enhance Speech of Sacrifice is 100% crap. Both end game raiders and casual raiders will be shackeled to the VP 2 set forever now.
    I posted most of this stuff on Beta. 10 weeks to address this stuff and not a single post.
  5. ARCHIVED-Tomanak Guest

    Semjaza@Everfrost wrote:
    but it could bring our DPS into the realm of the predators and that would never do. The crys of outrage would deafen the gods. I too would like to see a FD option, as that more utility based and more justifiable given our roles as support classes. If you wanted to top the parse a dirge was the wrong choice...
  6. ARCHIVED-PurrceyPurespirit007 Guest

    I too posted most of the same concerns as Kall in beta multiple times with never a response. The closest thing I got for a dev response was that Aerlik was watching the Dirge thread but couldnt comment. The same things we all posted in beta are still on Live.
    I am surprised to see our end line TSO tree still in such bad shape and mostly useless. I cannot belive the progression offered in dirge armor from shard to adv shard to raid sets. I cannot belive you expect me to pay 12 shards for arms then add 30 more shards for virtually the same arms with +2 crit mit. just as an example.
    Something needs to be done and a good place to start is with Kall post as it is said very clearly what most Dirges are looking for.
  7. ARCHIVED-jadsded Guest

    Sugota@Butcherblock wrote:
    Umm correct me if I'm wrong but don't predators get 2 slots for poisons?... seriously, I thought so, but only have a lvl 30 assassin so I don't know.
    The idea that giving us a poison is going to allow us to be on the same level as a pred, well I don't see it, and even if it does happen for a few, it won't happen for everyone. There are plenty of mezzers out there doing the dps of a wizard so what's the big deal if a different utility class does the same dps... But then again I hate buying arrows for soloing and having to buy poisons too... and it would just be yet another passive ability... But then again we are "scouts,"and scouts use poisons. If they don't want to treat us like scouts move us to the caster tree and make our armor look like chain robes... (oh yeah they would have to bump up our dps if we moved there so never mind that wouldn't work either).
    All that said. I don't care to top the parse. I went on my first raid in 4 years last night (I held my own just fine BTW). I just don't see what the big deal would be to let a scout class use poisons.
    As far as FD, I would love it and it feels like a dirge type of ability, and Necros can fd and rez so that precedent is set.
  8. ARCHIVED-jadsded Guest

    Kall wrote:
    LOL I completely forgot about this spell since it hasn't been on my hotbar since I dinged 70.
  9. ARCHIVED-Jaiceaf Guest

    Hey everyone, Lvl 80 dirge from Nagafen here. I've been reading the boards for about a year now, and now that the expansion has hit and im still not satisfied with this class, as it is my main and the only toon I play,I would like to throw in my personal wish list
    1) A Beneficial Spell debuff....we are debuffers, I think it would help so much when pvp'ing and raiding if a dirge could dispel beneficial spells from a target.
    2) Bladedance...blade dance needs to be on a 2-3 minute timer. 10 minutes for 1 aoe blocker which you spend 24 AA points to get in the first place is just ridiculous.
    3) Dissonant Requiem needs to be completely revamped. It has an outrageous cast time, and very little damage.
    4) I believe instruments should be a charm slot, with no usability, just beneficial modifiers..however with the exception of some awesome fabled charms, they still need to be desirable to wear. Hell in EQ1 when I played my bard, we sacrificed dps all-together when using our instruments....and noone complained. The instruments were so cool and added so much benefit to the songs, we loved using them.
    5) Oration of Sacrifice in the shadow tree......laughable. Im not going to lie and say that Ive never used this spell to successfully keep my tank from going down, however...what would be even more useful would be an AA devoted to gravitas instead of Sacrifice.
    6) The disease mastery needs to affect every single CA/Spell that has diseased based damage. DISEASE MASTERY...hello, having a mastery of all things disease based would mean that they should all increase in damage and usefulness....or is this SoEs attempt at a lame joke? You now posess Mastery of Disease because you are so awesome, however consequently, it works on 3 spells, enjoy!
    These are my main concerns, thanks for listening board readers....not thanking SoE for listening because they may read this, but they dont listen.
    Jaiceaf.
  10. ARCHIVED-JerronBlacksilver Guest

    Jaiceaf wrote:
    I approve this message, and generally all the content of this thread. Especially the suggestion regarding Bladedance. I really don't mind having to spend 24 points in a line with little other benefit to it if it means we can save the group from untimely AE death, but once every 10 minutes is just stupid!
    Can we please, please lower the recast on Bladedance? Even 5 minutes, to bring it in line with Advanced Warning, would be okay.
  11. ARCHIVED-Giland Guest

    There are 3 trees of poisons. Red, blue, and green.
  12. ARCHIVED-SerChandos Guest

    I throw this idea out into any thread that I think it fits.
    I think Bards should get a portal spell called Pub Crawl.
    We should be able to transfer anyone in group from any tavern/drinking establishment to any tavern/drinking establishment in Norrath...as long as that toon has drank there before.
    This would go a long way to fixing my anger over the whole run speed thing.
    Cheers.
  13. ARCHIVED-Crazyivan Guest

    Off-Topic: the 3 slots on my Assassin are red, blue, and Purple. Green is reserved for stat modifiers on the caster.
    Selo's needs to be revamped or increase the max move rate to 60%. Debuffs are still awesome regardless. To make a slight comparison Sorc's get to summon from 3 familiars with differing modifiers. So it's sensible that bards could summon from 3 differing instruments depending on modifier most beneficial for the group/raid. I would like one more ranged ability - it would be nice to have a ranged disease dot since we are all about disease abilities. And a shrieking melee 3 meter aoe- that can stun or disrupt an attack while also a piercing dot (18 seconds duration, every 3 seconds) would be nice. But this should be able to be modified with AA's at higher levels and needs to be a big damage attack. Well good luck with this wish list, and let's where it goes.
  14. ARCHIVED-Artalis the Elder Guest

    I've given this some more thought and also wanted to voice my agreement with some of the ideas/opinions brought forth in this thread.

    Bladedance - Recast is too long. It needs to be 5 minutes to be reasonable. As it stands right now, every time I use this ability, if I dont get hit with RoA or JCap the entire raid stands around waiting for it for up to 7 minutes as we work on new encounters. This is a huge hit to our raiding time window and doesn't effect balance since its not like we're pulling without it, just an annoyance.
    Poisons would be nice. Even just the ability to run one at a time would be excellent.
    I like the Pub Crawl idea, it has great flavor but tbh it doesn't really make that much of a difference when you take guild halls into consideration.
    Dissonant Requiem As others have said, the casting time is too long and damage insignificant. I have not even bothered to upgrade this spell past ad1 simply because I never use it unless I'm mentored.
    Oration of Sacrifice - We now have 10 aa points we can put into this dubious ability and our 2 raid set bonuse has been associated with it. Why? I like utility, and the ability throw an emergency heal is interesting but here's the thing. The average MT is going to have somewhere between 17 and 23k health. Our tiny heal isn't going to save the day whatsoever. 10 aa points towards an ability that's of such limited usefulness makes me feel like maybe the devs dont know what to do for us. Hopefully this thread will help.
    Disease Mastery (as mentioned by others) needs to affect all our disease-based abilities, it would be nice if it effected all disease based spells AND combat arts.
    And here's my big revelation after a late night crawl through Klakanon for aa recently.
    WE HAVE NO OUT OF ENCOUNTER DAMAGE AOES
    NONE
    0
    I think bards are the only subclass with this limitation. So I guess the biggest change I'd like to see is at least one Out of Encounter AoE. Ideally a DoT AoE like the pally Consecration called Aria of Pain or something. (props to the Maestro in SoH )
    AND/OR
    The ability either through aa's or maybe new/addtional debuffs that can be maintained out of encounter affecting ALL enemies within the radius.
  15. ARCHIVED-Whysprr_Wyrd Guest

    As I've mentioned elsewhere, if they combined the better bits of Wail of Woe / Hymn of Horror and Dissonant Requiem, it'd be one good spell; an insta-cast, out-of-encounter AOE with modest damage and a bit of stun/KB effect.
    Instead of two wretched ones.
  16. ARCHIVED-Azekah1 Guest

    Everytime I look at my AA chart and see that stupid Bow attack in the Wisdom line I get angry.
    Seriously? Why would a dirge want more hate? And why is the damage so low?
    Remove the hate...add more damage....or get a new option. (IE another snare would be nice : D )
  17. ARCHIVED-Martrae Guest

    Azekah1 wrote:

    Maybe I'm wrong....but I always thought it generated hate towards the mob's current target. So if the mob is beating on the tank and you fire it off the TANK gains more hate...not you.
  18. ARCHIVED-thecynic315 Guest

    Breanut@Butcherblock wrote:
    thats exactly what it does, and in all honestly the only thing that was ever broken was that Messengers Letter used ammo after they made the changes to CAs....havent looked in forever if it still does.
  19. ARCHIVED-Artalis the Elder Guest

    Speaking of things I'd like to see.
    Messenger's Letter needs to have the hate applied to target increased substantially to be even remotely desirable.
    As it stands if I had 5 extra points in the Bard tree to play with, I'd pop it onto the Str line for Turnstrike or Int for Rythm Blade, but Messenger's Letter isn't even a consideration.
  20. ARCHIVED-Azekah1 Guest

    Breanut@Butcherblock wrote:
    woops lol..guess i never gave it a proper read