what are the plans for the enchanter classes?

dlove183 wrote:

Everyone should raid with a Fury to be honest, they can solo heal a group and do as much DPS as an Illusionist! Whilst giving 10% crit bonus to the group which is way better than any lame Illy buff!
Im not having a go at Furys, I think they are perfect the way they are now, about time they got some love. I am just illustrating how pathetic the Illusionist class is in Sentinals Fate. You need a total revamp of our DPS and utlity. Boost the base damage of our skills, increase our crit bonus to 150% and give us buffs that actually matter.

Jeepned2 wrote:

Obviously you are missing the largest component of Coercive Shout.. The fact that it's a 5 second 100% riposte. The only time I ever use it for agro issues is when there's a mem-wipe.. Otherwise it is always used when the tank starts to spike.
Group Velocity is huge.. 5% crit bonus for the group is amazing with consolidated crits.

Carthrax wrote:

Umm.. The 5% crit bonus for velocity is due to the T4 legs.. There's no inherent 5% crit bonus tacked on to Velocity without the legs.. So of course they don't stack when it doesn't exist.
And who cares that they didn't fix Thought Snap?!?! I probably wouldn't have wasted the 10 extra AA to unlock it, since there's practically nothing good in that tree anyways.

Is there any reponse in any similar thread from a dev?

Lanlaa@Valor wrote:

Dev's respond?.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....ummm (breath)....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... umm No they haven't.

Chock@Unrest wrote:

yeah, it is so great that even tanks easily outparse you. scouts do it all the time in our raids (btw, your bards suck
still there is a lot of potential from gear for the wiz and you dont even have an elementalist. 30-50k is probably what T1 should do in SF and from what i can see from encounters requiring dps to beat them that is the least they should do. Due to the mechanics i cant see illusionists at half those numbers, all scouts, all other mages most tanks parsing better and also having lots of "utility" is just plain annoying. i wonder how many healer classes will parse better in 6 months.
And it is really annoying that none of the devs who broke the class does even have the backbone to make a single statement. Cowardice in its purest form.

Ebarel wrote:

My dps has jumped up since this post. I am the mage with the most red adornment items (I had a bit of DKP to spend). I did squeeze into the top 5 ZW last night. I had some solid 17-20k parses when I could melee, but then the T1 mages were doing 30k+. It will only be a very short time before the rest of the raid catchs up to my gear. It will be nice while it lasts... which wont be long.

Chock@Unrest wrote:

Considering what each class brings to a raid / group.. i would expect a chanter to parse slightly behind a rogue and just ahead of a bard. Looks like that's what's happening. Only outlier in this parse is the SK.
However, I do think they should change the base crit multiplier back to 1.3 for all... or increase chanter/bard/crusaders up to 1.5 with everyone else. Would close the gap some but still allow dps classes to outparse buff classes
If you only care about dps ... roll a dpser. then join a raid guild and take turns sitting out with the other dps'ers while someone has to play their undergeared alt chanter to fill all the vacated chanter spots. and then big gratz on slowing your guild's progression.

Enoax@Permafrost wrote:

Ok, I respond to this one. Right now Coercers are not as bad as they were before the "Big Fix". However we did take a pretty good hit this last round. I have been in the same raiding guild for over 3 years now. Nearly all of my EQ2 friends are in that guild. But I am not, and I'll repeat, I am not going to continue to play my Coercer if we get nerfed back to where we were a year and a half ago. I won't even care if my guild's progression goes of zero until they can find someone who doesn't mind making a screwed up class thier main. I lost a lot of Coercer friends on the huge nerf we took about six months before the "big fix". lf they let our class go to crap again you'll see a bunch more quit. Me, I won't quit EQ2 but I will stop playing my Coercer again and go back to my Troub, and at that point my Coercer will not be available to anyone, including my guild. The only reason we got fixed last time is because Coercers became so rare that many of the raiding guilds started complaining about the problem, and that is the only reason why Coercers got fixed. Two years of Coercrers complaining got us no where. Bottom line is, I don't care how it effects my guild if my class is so screwed up that I hate the idea of even logging them in anymore. Why would I even play EQ2 under those conditions? Are we at that point yet? No. We are still a long ways away from how screwed up we were before. But now many of us just aren't willing to wait as long as we did last time to get fixed.
I have always wondered if anyone at SoE even knows how to play an enchanter. I have a hard time believing that they do. Every since LU13 (how many years ago was that?) the job of Enchanter has been confusing and very haphazzard. They give us spells like Snap Thought and decide shortly that oh, to powerful a spell so we will make all raid mobs immune. Charm? To powerful so raid mobs immune. Stun? To powerful so raid mobs immune. Root? To powerful so raid mobs are immune. We are a shadow of the class we started out as and still today SoE has no clue how they want to treat Enchanters and no clue which direction our future will be.
So if I quit playing my Coercer and slow your progression, Oh welll. Why don't you roll a chanter and play it then. Not part time, but as your main so that you are pretty well stuck to always playing that class as the long term players of the enchanters stop playing them. Hope you enjoy a bunch of part time enchanters who only leveled them to have them but never really got into playing them.

Enoax@Permafrost wrote:

The parse was from early in SF, things have changed. The sk is now parsing around 35K normally in raid. I am running about 20+k - still 50% less than T1 dps which is running 40K+. Bards, pallys, zerker, mystics and furys etc are all hovering at the 20k mark now. I regularly get beat by our mystic who can solo heal a group and parse 25K.
Anyway, I have no idea why Permafrost.Enoax is trolling a enchanter thread since he has been playing an OP class as his main for many years - a Templar. I really could care less about his commentary on the enchanter classes since he only has a $hitty coercer but has never played it in any real capacity. Meanwhile, gtf off of this thread. kthxbye.

Didn't realize that having a templar in addition to my necromancer and coercer made me ineligible to post in the general mage discussion forum in a thread that is essentially about class balance. I also didn't realize that disagreeing with someone in a thread = trolling.
my bad

Enoax@Permafrost wrote:

RE: Ineligible to post to the mage forum, incorrect. Feel free - post away as if you needed permission anyway. But obviously you were looking to troll if you are posting to an ENCHANTER thread (enchanter clearly spelled out in the title, in case you missed it) soley to disagree with majority of us. Your necro and coercer are what - level 80? 81 perhaps? I am betting you don't have a max level mage you have not seriously played a mage in SF (if at all), so yeah, you are pretty knee deep in troll factor. Here is a link to the Templar forums in case you get lost on enchanter threads again: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...w.m?forum_id=83 Its all pretty quiet over there since they love being OP.
Permafrost.Enoax aside, updating parses as people are getting better and better gear. The freshest is from TSO late last week as we are running in off-raid nights to re-gear a handful of people. Wizard is low because of a bad death night. The SK's ZW is usually right behind or with the "real" mages. The gap is widening between T1 mages and chanters. Will update with a SF parse before the week is out.
TSO on "a void renderer"
Conj | 76,035
War | 45,772
SK | 35,192
Me (illy) | 32,121
Troub | 24,452
Wizard | 23,205
Fury | 19,327
Pally | 18,850
coercer | 13,331
assassin |13,059
Pre-Anashti multimob "exalted Sentinel"
Warlock | 73,221
Conjy | 55,3408
SK | 42,545
Fury | 26,593
Wizard 25,404
Illy (me) | 25,313
Pally | 20,178
.
Repost from Flames thread of Surreal in SF:
Originally Posted by E.T.I.
Lock | 53197
*** | 48006
Brig | 46049
Wiz | 42116
Lock | 41331
Swash | 39304
Troub | 33982
Coerc | 33674
Zerk | 24955
Dirge | 24753
SK | 24730
Coerc | 23713
Inq | 22467
Inq | 21802
Illu | 21732
Illu | 20502
Dirge | 19940
Mystic | 19621
Coerc | 15570
Inq | 14899
Troub | 7715
Defiler | 4984
Templar | 393
Warden | 364

Ok, went back and re-read all the posts and the general non enchanters believe that enchanters big complaint is that we don't hit the top of the parse anymore. Ok, that's part of it. But only a part. Does it bother me that I'm now being beat by most of the fighter classes also? And Furies? Actually yes it somewhat chaps my rear end when a healer beats me.
But what really irritates me? Pure Awe, Mesmerize, Charm, Amnesia, Root, Perplexity, Mindbend and Snap Thought completely useless in a raid. Medusa Gaze, Silence, and Shock Wave only are able to use the damage portion of these spells in raid, the other benefits of these spells are useless vs Epic mobs. I use the term useless for any spell that has no effect on Epic mobs or is reduced to less then 10% of its use compared to a heroic mob. All of the spells in the first group aren't even on my hot bars anymore. For you non-chanters, how many of your ca's or spells are useless in a raid environment? Doubt is even close to a Chanter's.
Illys got shafted even more since most of their class defining spells are as useless of the Coercers plus their mana regen is now also sub-par. Sorry brethern enchanters, but you took a big shot then we did.
I am not going to go back to where we were two years ago where everyone out dps's us except defilers. If SoE screws my Coercer again so bad that I don't even want to log on to him, then that will be the day I finally retire him completely. I'll strip him of his gear and turn him into tradeskiller only toon. I'm not going to beg for two and a half years again for them to fix us like I did last time.Actually I went from begging to insulting them due to the frustration of nothing ever being fixed, only more and more nerfs with most updates.
And yes I find it funny to watch someone in 80-89 doing the "LF Chanter" for an hour or so and not getting one. And if they think it's bad now, just wait. From what I've seen it's only going to get worse. I've also notice that many of the raiding guilds on Permafrost are looking for and for some, have been looking for one or two enchanters. The search doesn't seem to be working out too well for them.
If SoE is going to take us back to where we where two years ago, I'd rather they just put us out of our misery, give our mana regen (give it to the troubs),dps buff (give it to the dirges) and hate transfer (the brigands and assassins could have that one) to some other classes and just get rid of the enchanters from the game. Would rather see that then slow death by nerf.
So that is some of my reasons why I'd like to see SoE answer the question "What are the plans for the enchanter classes?" but from years of experience I also realize that will never happen.

A parse from a TSO zone and the 650k ZW dps from Surreal's 1:45 min fight (that no one else has even come close to touching THAT dps) might not be true representation of the real situation.
And Staven I agree. Coercers used to be the suck and needed fixed. However, they are in no danger of that happening again this expansion.
From our ZW Labs (minus ... perah'celsis/Xilaxis) our coercer parsed 5th and 9th (80% of the dps of the top sorc), our illusionists 7th and 8th. The dps scouts/mages parsed above them, the monk and fury parsed with them, the bards parsed just behind them. Our raid wide dps is a bit low mostly because we dont have a brig and our 2nd troub didn't have his myth/enervated.
But since I only have a level 85 mage I can't interpret raid dps parses. so interpret for yourself.
There is nothing wrong with a healer being able to put out good dps numbers on fights were little/no healing is needed.

Enoax@Permafrost wrote:

Yeah, noting wrong with a healer being able to reach just behind bard level DPS.

Beating classes deisgned to do damage alongside their utility? Its wrong.

Enoax@Permafrost wrote:

Permafrost.Enoax, The ability to read a parse does not grant you the innate ability to understand a class. From your allegory on Cataclysm's parse break down, so your T1 mage did 10k, and your coercer did 8k? Your percentages are pretty meaningless without context. Since you obviously love hanging out on enchanter threads, go read this and get yourself educated.
Regarding TSO/Surreal's parses: my guess is Surreal's illys DONT SUCK and they are still at TSO parse level. You are right, two-grouping TSO is probably not a fair assessment however the dps ratios tend to remain fairly static whether you are in SF or TSO.
If you want to pick a fight with me personally (which I think is the case since you originally replied to my posting, and historically is topic you love to berate me over...), you know the name of all my toons. Send me an in-game tell. Meanwhile, let me serve you up a hot, steaming cup of s.t.f.u. Go spend your time posting on the Templar forums proclaiming your superiority over all things EQ2.
Edit: had more to say.

Oh I'm sure Surreal has the best illusionists WW.... doesn't change the fact that it was a 650k parse (only about twice the dps of most average guilds) of a < 2 min fight that is trivial. Not to mention when it was posted on flames it was followed by about 10 pages of disbelieve, accusations about doctoring parses, accusations of cheating etc. I have no opinion either way whether it is a true parse... It is probably true Sureal is beast. Doesn't change the fact that a super inflated <2 min parse of 650k might not be the best parse to champion your cause with.
I read the 2 pages of illusionist wish list. It pales in comparision to the 100's of pages of complains/ wishes/ calls for fixes in the summoner forums of the past 2.5 years.
I purposely left out the numbers from our parses to avoid this changing into a our guild is better than your guild thread. Whether our ZW is 400k or 200k doesn't change the fact that dps/utility classes are parsing 70-80% of the 'T1 dps' classes. Seems about right... maybe the sky isn't falling.
But I'll leave you alone in your cry thread and feel free chase out anyone else that disagrees with you. I don't need to raid on a 90 illusionist to understand that class balance might actually improve the longevity and playability of this game. It was clearly me being hostile to you lol.
PS: I dont think class balance has been achieved. There are still OP classes, it's just that chanters are not one of them.

Enoax@Permafrost wrote:

Surreal parse was in with other parses including previous ones on this thread. Its not to champion with, its just another datapoint. But read into it whatever you wish.
I still do not see how all your chanters are parsing 80% of T1 DPS? you state:

From our ZW Labs (minus ... perah'celsis/Xilaxis) our coercer parsed 5th and 9th (80% of the dps of the top sorc), our illusionists 7th and 8th.

So you have Yiix (coercer) parsing 80% at 5th place, then the rest of your chanters at 7th 8th and 9th place? How are they possibly cutting it at 80% of "T1"? I don't think you either don't know how to do percentages, or there is something flawed with your data/facts. Most of the guilds I am seeing have their enchanters on average at 50% or lower. So, Cataclysm must be super-special to be able to warp dps percentages like that.
Go champion your "everything is perfectly balanced" on some other thread.
As for my perception of you being hostile to me, yeah. You are dead on. You haven't spoken to me in over a month. I find it appalling that your feeble attempt at communication is on a PUBLIC forum on an enchanter thread. Really? I have the distinct impression that your straw man arguments is merely to reduce the boredom out of your day. Cutting me to watch me bleed is highly entertaining to you, but is only going to make me resentful.
Edit: formatting

That's why i stated 80% in regards to the top chanter parse and 70-80% when i referred to all 4 as a group.