What about new players to the game?

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Paragonvii, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. Paragonvii Active Member

    I was just giving an honest thought to EQ2. In terms of revenue for the game, you basically have two different types of players - new and returning players, and those already playing the game. If there are not many new or returning players in the game, then the game owners will need to rely upon the current player base for revenue. This means trying to make as much money as possible off the loyal player base. What about new or returning players?

    A new player to the game (which is a source of money for the game) will face:

    Leveling their toon - pretty simple, really. A PL or agnostics will fix this bit. Forced quests at 100~ okay. That's a solo gig, anyway. The earlier content in the game is AMAZING and there is a CRAPLOAD to do, but it was mostly designed for groups, and you will never find a full group for content before 120 unless your in a level lock guild or a locked server.

    Your gear - I don't think this is a big deal, you work a bit you find it.

    Adornments - YUP. Confusing as all get out, a ton of work. Just being honest. You can just get them from the boxes now at 100+ zones already on the gear which is helpful, or from yo panda merchant. But for the good ones?

    Leveling their spells - Masters use to drop like cra cra back in the day, but those days are goner. At 100, they are so sparse now. Most people will fly past most of the content up to 100, anyways. Is there any way to make leveling spells easier, rather than relying on people buying the upgrade?

    Leveling their mount - This is just a HUGE time sink. This will be rather intimidating to a new or returning player. Its only time, or buy the upgrades. Not sure if this is designed for a new or returning player. Also, people don't really enjoy time sinks.

    Leveling their merc - Please see above for the mount. Time sink. What if they need multiple mercs, for the buff? Now, that's not even mentioning you need to physically get the slotted equipment for your mount or merc. Again, a bit more work and seems like a lot for a new or returning player.

    Leveling their familiar - I actually enjoy familiars wild at times, because you simply get a familiar from the quest. Leveling these little guys is crazy lol. Again, buy the upgrades or time sink time sink (run the quest every day). Running this quest daily for XP yields little results, hopefully you will get lucky with xp from overseer or pull out your credit card, baby.

    Panda questline - Omgosh for a new player that has not done that yet this is a great deal of work. I would say its pretty much needed in the game past 100.

    Overseer - I do think players need to do overseer in game. Again, its really a daily time sink thing. You need to level it up, and it floods your inventory with a ton of items you probably don't need (at least for me it does). Eventually you will strike gold with a cool appearance item now and then or level pot for your familiar or mount. You may even get a mount or merc (I have not seen this personally).

    It could be argued that all of the above is optional. Really, its all kind of needed when you hit 120 to group up or even run the solo content (in my opinion). So, I guess my point is, for new players or returning players, this seems a touch over whelming, really. I have a masters in business administration, so I am a nerd who thinks about the business model. Basically, if there is not going to be new or returning players, the loyal players will be bled for money for the business to survive.

    My suggestions!

    ~ Increase the drop rate for masters/ spells for the higher level players, for Pete's sake lol!
    ~ For goodness sake lesson the time sinks! Omgosh who likes those!!!!
    ~ Make some of this less "needs to be done" and more - your player is stronger for completing it. There is a ton of extras going on here that has been implemented over the course of how many years lol
    ~ Allow players to gain XP from KILLING MOBS past 100, rather than forced quests. Not a fan of forced quests unless its for option things!! Maybe agnostics could be bumped to 110 or so to avoid running plane of magic. People do not like FORCED, they like OPTIONAL. So quests should be for optional content and allow people to gain XP from having fun in the game, which is beating up bad guys and hunting the lootz.
    ~ There is a TON of freaking cool older content in the game. Never forget to find ways to make these "playable" again for high level characters.
    ~ There is a TON of freaking cool appearance items/ mounts in this game. Make them AVAILABLE!!! Yes, put a bunch of those mounts and appearance items in the cash shop. Who cares, but bring them out/back!!
    ~ Keep the game FUN. Everyone likes FREEDOM in a game, not forced.
    ~ Nerfs will make players LEAVE. Please be careful with this!!!! Please be advised!! Balancing characters is a BIG FREAKING deal lol. Balancing them will keep your player base alive, not doing so will lead to floods of un subs (yep, less bucks). So please make sure if you nerf an OP situation, they are still in line with other toons!!

    To the Devs: THANK YOU for keeping a game going that I have had many fond memories with. I love you all (community and owners/ staff). Please accept any criticism as constructive only.
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  2. The-Plethora Active Member

    Basically this...
    Leveling their mount - This is just a HUGE time sink. This will be rather intimidating to a new or returning player. Its only time, or buy the upgrades. Not sure if this is designed for a new or returning player. Also, people don't really enjoy time sinks.

    The same applies to Familiars, spells and Mercs. They have introduced a problem (time sinks) and are selling you the solution. The problem doesn't need to be there, you could just get a new mount and move all your stuff over to the new slots.

    XP - Totally agree with you about grinding still should be viable. Grinding timelines from old expansions to be able to level up whilst getting treasured rewards is not what I would describe as fun.

    The game does have some great content. I think if you came into the game with a couple of friends, even if you were free to play you would have a great time grouping together up to level 100 running heroic timelines, the epic quests etc but at 120 at the high end the barrier to entry is pretty high and by high I mean expensive. I'm mainly casual these days and I am happy with that, I can't see much sense of achievement if the only way of beating an encounter is to open your wallet.
    Carynn, Paragonvii and Justaplayer like this.
  3. Booniee New Member

    For returning players, my biggest problem is the leap from solo to heroics. We are a group of 6 that have returned after 4-10 years away from the game. We're all level 120 now, we've all done the Sig lines in RoS, We've done a lot of the triumphs, we've leveled our Mercs, Mounts and Familiars. The Solo instances are no challenge whatsoever now, but when we try and group in the heroic instances, we ether get slaughtered or progression through the instances in painful (i.e. 20 minute fight on the first named in EC:QQ). We've doing Overseer, but even at level 15 useful rewards are limited to the occasion barding slot or familiar/merc/mount potion. It has become frustrating.
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  4. Jabbso Active Member

    Yeah EQ2 need to address this to retain new players.

    I jumped ship in February to SWTOR which I’m enjoying immensely. None of the hoops to jump through and can get to end game very easily. It’s lovely to be in a well populated game which doesn’t have massive time sinks like levelling mounts.

    Obviously these time sinks can be removed by opening your wallet but it’s not a pay to win model at all. No siree!
    Paragonvii likes this.
  5. Kashue Member

    I was going to type a saucy post about returning players, and all of the hurdles one has to face, even in a guild environment with alot of people willing to help you... but inevitably it's just me being saucy.

    If you love this game like i once loved this game, hold on to that feeling for as long as you can and get the most you can get out of everything EQ2 has to offer. There is so much that is great about this game that it would take me several posts to explain what used to get me excited about playing.

    In the end, i just lost the willpower to keep up with the end game grind... For someone with OCD, that's not a simple thing to overcome and it was only a matter of time before i became one of the lost. Now i spend my days chasing scrolls around Cyrodiil and loving every minute of it. Sure, the new game has its own set of issues, but the new xpac is great so far and the newness of the game (to me) keeps it fresh.

    Squeeze all of the fun you can from EQ2. Especially all of the content before end game. It's worth it.
    Griffon Lady and Paragonvii like this.
  6. Jamzez Active Member

    Kander only like's to whale hunt.
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  7. Paragonvii Active Member

    It touches me because so much of what you said I so agree with. I have been playing for years with my son. Raiding together - he made me a guild hall and we have our own guild. Its pretty FREAKING SWEEET if I dont say so myself! We log in and just do whatever we want! Chrono, run old content, old raid zones (hunting appearance gear)...whatever we want to do. Ive given up on a lot of the pressure to be a BIS player. How many awesome memories do I have in this game? TONS. I guess if it really did shut down that would suck. I guess that's why I make sure to tell the devs/ owners ect thank you for keeping it going (real talk). Although we may not agree with some things, at the end of the day, its the game we can all log into with SO MANY AWESOME memories. Guess I gotta remember the alternative, what if it was not here.
  8. SynnikuL Active Member

    Knowing what I know about EQ2, I can't fathom how difficult it must be for a new player trying this game out.....
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  9. Estal Well-Known Member


    A new player can level up and get AAs easily enough, but then they will inevitably hit a brutal wall when they realise that they are hundreds of hours away from being good enough to join a group for even the most basic heroic content in the current expac.
    Not even to mention that once they do catch up enough they'll have to deal with the realisation that all the old content is completely worthless to them.
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  10. Ainiana New Member

    I am a returning/new player (I played at launch to max level and revisited briefly when Kelethin city came out, but I might as well be a new player for all Ii remember), and I have been playing for about 1 month now on my return.

    I have noticed a theme in this thread regarding new/returning players and talking about level 100+ content in the same breath. Imo that is not the content that is putting off new players (possibly returning players sure, depending on when they last played), that is what is possibly pushing away some players that have already paid enough money to buy expansions and likely some subscription time... A lot of money realistically when compared to most other games, They have already paid and have more of a vested interest in staying than those who joined on day 1.

    I think getting players to join and REACH that stage is the bigger hurdle. So this is a list of what I see as the issues for new players like myself:

    When I first downloaded and came back to this game, the first thing I noticed was an absolutely awful UI, now I have got used to it, and I kind of like it, but... It is not set up to just use in a good state from the moment you create a character, the options are confusing due to the sheer amount of them, and most of this is not obvious or even touched on in any tutorials at the start. I think having a better default layout would be quite an easy thing to do, a few more hotbars at least, and perhaps incorporate it into a better tutorial.

    Now I generally hate hand-holding tutorials and I actually liked that EQ2 did not have them, but I also know that lacking a decent tutorial in a game this old, with so much information to trawl though... Will be off putting to many, and a bit of an improved new player experience probably should have been done just before putting this up on steam, but if there are going to be future pushes towards getting new players, this should certainly be done before then (along with the UI issue above). A new tutorial could be delivered via some optional quests in the new areas I think, just to focus on performing some kind of action on learning the basics.

    It has been mentioned that most of the community is in the level 120 area and if a new player needs to play all the way to 100 solo, and have already chosen to buy the expansions prior to being able to level another 10+ levels to even group with anyone, that seems like a significant barrier imo, and people wanting to group and play together from the start will likely never reach anywhere near that stage.
    Solution here being to either expand on the free to play level limit, or introduce reasons for 120 players to revisit old content via chronomancer thingy for rewards useful to them.
    Alternatively, TLE servers. Open them to f2p and get more people in there, in fact actually recommend all new players into the TLE servers, get them in grouping with people and experiencing an actual community, they are far more likely want to hang about and spend money on sub/expansions at this point if they make friends.

    My suggestion:
    If/when a new TLE server opens next year, change a few things around the f2p model and remove a few early barriers, get a big burst of new players by allowing this TLE server to be played by the f2p, and maybe spend a bit on advertising to bring old players back and be appealing to new players. At the same time, make an improved new player experience so that people start playing, join a community and make friends and want to continue playing. At this point people are more likely to spend, be it on subscription and/or cash shop. Focus cash shop more on new level 1 cosmetic items, especially since majority of new players being on TLE means they will be of varying low level, and the 120 p2w items are not going to get looked at.
  11. Amalar The combined salt from all of SOE/DBGs fallen MMOs

    Everyone wants to come out with these big plans to revamp the game, and make it like "Eq2: 2.0", but I honestly just do not see it happening.

    And you did not even mention ascensions in that original list... Oh and the numbers in the billions...

    I would LOVE for Daybreak to say anything about the plans for EQ, but we are not getting anything other than business as usual for live servers. Threads like these are so regular, and there has not been a word from Daybreak, Jen Chan, the new owners, again other than the business-as-usual producers letters.

    You are really throwing your words into a void here sorry to say.

    TLE / the new PVP TLE seems to be the widely accepted way to actually play for people new to the game, and not feel like a second job, with a million bloated systems.

    I am just not interested in TLE, I *would* actually be interested in an EQ2 True Classic server (Think spirit shards :rolleyes:) but that is never going to happen.

    Please prove me wrong Daybreak *Pokes EQ IP with a stick* Do something
    Paragonvii likes this.
  12. Sigrdrifa EQ2 Wiki Author

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  13. Paragonvii Active Member

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  14. Paragonvii Active Member

    You know, you make some valid points here. I have been playing over a decade off and on (and MANY here have also) so I wouldn't have thought about the UI, I'm just use to it. Tutorials could never hurt. Weren't these kinda sorta in the starting areas? I donno, but optional tutorials are a win-win situation. ALSO you make some points about the TLE servers, I just play on Ant Bayle so that hadn't crossed my mind. Different strokes for different folks.

    I think some key takeaways IMO here are: Keep what players have to pay within reasonable parameters and they will more likely retain a higher player base. Also, make the game friendly for returning players and new players alike.

    This would be the worst business model ever for this game:
    -Make as much money as possible, from every angle possible, from the loyal player base.
    -Not considering player retention, bringing back old players or considering new players to the game.
    -Not listening to what the players are saying to improve the game.
    Griffon Lady likes this.
  15. Paragonvii Active Member

    ^^^^Going to fully agree with this.

    I am going to throw this out there also~ if they keep things reasonable (I am referring to time sinks and also paying cash/cost of the game) they will have HIGHER PLAYER RETENTION, thus a higher player base. Overall, they will make more money.
  16. Paragonvii Active Member

    *Jamzez has a major point here~ and that simply will not work.

    Granted, the owners of the game will have the occasional person/ player who is simply loaded. These are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN. So yeah, plug a system like heritage so they will dump a few grand into the game to get a BIS mount. I do not believe that is the end of the world, here.

    A set up like this is not "totally" unusual in games. Those who are blessed/ wealthy/ loaded can spend some cash and get something cool. Okay.

    Point here: do NOT expect the majority of your player base to have this ability. Its never going to happen. For someone rich, spending $3,000 is like spending $3, its no big deal. The general public does not live like this and will not have this ability. If you rely upon overcharging or things like this from your entire player base~ it will mean less players and thus less overall revenue.
    Lateana likes this.
  17. Griffon Lady Well-Known Member

    Making BIS items only the rich can get backfires. I played a game which was almost exclusively based on gambling for materials to make any endgame gear (As in, you couldn't get groups or go to max level zones and survive unless you spent $100s of dollars if you were super lucky. The micro transactions were so subtle I spent $200 before I got the mount I wanted. >.<). There was this guy who was loaded IRL (Or stole a lot of credit cards?) and had all the best gear . He literally just sat in a quest hub, acting like a jack *** and goading people into fighting him, killing them in one hit if they dueled him. (why I'm very grateful that EQ2's open PVP is on it's own server). I logged in at completely random times and he was always there. Yah, you could ignore people there too, but he was still there, getting in people's faces, deliberately getting in the way, covering NPCs and items, etc.... Do we really need that kinda crap?

    Fancy guild halls seemed like a reasonable-ish thing to do. ($400 still seems ridiculous, but it doesn't really affect the game aside from the xp potion or whatever it has once a week.) At least people can share the guild halls. Houses thoguh.... I'd hate to see generally unobtainable houses.

    How about fluff, or convenience items? Maybe like a mount for $100 that has global travel weather you are a subscriber or not (would be popular with non-subscribers since the map-travel is a main reason to sub, so the price would have to reflect that.), or a hat that summons a banker for $40, or a solid gold samurai outfit that produces max level rare harvests every couple hours while you are wearing it and logged in on that toon for $70? Have your character's statue put in-game with a custom engraving (dev approved) for $2000? Gnome-made Lamborghini for $45,000, your choice of colors?

    Maybe DBG could start a "fund a quest hub" where a richi-rich gets to design their own villa or something, pay an obscene amount of money, and have it put in the game (I imagine with some editing if they get really obnoxious?), but with copyright issues that might pop up and the likely hood of the addition not fitting in with he rest of the game... maybe that'd be impossible.

    How about a ticket you can buy for DBC that allows you to submit a sketch, screenshot, or description of an item you'd like added to the game (appearance item or house item). (With the right for the devs to to refuse and refund since you know there will be idiots that think specific anatomical parts would be the thing to submit...)

    There are tons of things to add that are not going to affect the game play seriously.

    I know a lot of people are against the idea, but how about adds we get DBC for watching? More money = more resources for DBG to make more content. Wizards101 has an optional button (option in the settings window to put an adds button on the hud) that you can just hit when there's a lul like waiting for a respawn. The window is closeable at any time, but you have to get to the end and claim the currency. It's unobtrusive, ignorable by people not interested (some people don't even know it exists till someone tells them in chat), and it is a win win for people who either can't afford the cash shop items or don't want to give their personal information. Admittedly, you get like 10 cents worth of in-game currency per add... And there were so many people watching the adds that the company runs out of adds to watch pretty often. (Not sure how that works. I think they sell so much time or bandwidth or something to a company to show adds? So many views?)

    I still like the idea of taking Dungeon Maker to the next level. Who knows? Maybe there'd be DM contests again? (They were going to do that every 6 months, weren't they? But it only happened once.)

    I'm also a fan of the idea of a 3d "paper doll" screenshot you could have 3d printed. They could have different tokens at different prices in the Marketplace. One type to buy a printable file, another token to have them 3d print it and send it, and another token to have a full color 3d print sent to you. Maybe also a token for an item or mob/npc from the game to be printed.

    Any way...
    BIS only for the rich is BS.
    majickal and Priority like this.
  18. AOE1 Well-Known Member

    Show me a game you can play that is this old that when you log in the first time you can get bumped to within 10 levels of max level AND a game where you zone in to any one of 4 different zones and get full armor for that level (POP, Chaos, BoL & ROS)? Even if I go back to a game I used to play, I will have to start back at the bottom and earn my way back up. I don't know of one that will 'give' me free armor, levels and spells just for returning. If it is out there, please share.
    Lateana likes this.
  19. Grandavi Active Member

    In regards to Mount (and Merc) levelling... I have done a full mount level and opened up the extra slots in about 2 months without really trying. Mostly, because I was learning the fast ways to do it.

    There are tradeskill quests (harvesting/crafting) in BOL and RoS that will give you items to assist as well as Overseer quests that drop a ton of them. It's really not a big deal, although if you don't know about the boosts... then I guess it would be.. lol.

    Usually (and I am on Skyfire), I find that if you find an annoying issue... and you mention it in General Chat... somebody will come out of the ether and offer a suggestion that will put you on the path of righteousness. Don't know why... or how... but that's how I have played this game.. : )

    EQ2 people are generally 90% excellent. (yep... there are a few ... um... oddities?)
  20. Paragonvii Active Member

    And, my friend, this is where we will completely agree. I am 49 years old and have been gaming since the Vic 20 days. I have played a ton of games, and I would rank the EQ2 community #1. I play on Antonia Bayle and people are quick to help, its a very chill/ mature atmosphere and I really enjoy that. Yes, there are the occasional turds (lol! :)) but your gonna get that anywhere.

    I guess I am trying to give a spin from a new or returning players perspective and what would could be considered "overbearing, or a bit much" (and note the pay features). Now we are adding max level crafting into the matrix. Again, pay a bit more and BOOM your a crafter! :)