We're Nerfed Alot, But Who Here Can Still Rage? Berserker Strat 101

While I have to admit the neverending string of nerfs (blood rage, rampage (1st time), procs changed to direct damage, rampage (2nd time), just to mention a few) that have plagued our class are getting a bit old , we can still absolutely rage. While I accept the fact that some people won't like this post, I want to make it a point to mention that "IF PLAYED CORRECTLY" berserkers can still melee dps with the best of them. Now some of my DPS has to do with gear and spells, but to be completely honest alot of berserkers just plain don't use thier skills to the best of thier ability. With Fulginite Armor, a Heriophant Crook, and Adept 1 quality spells 150 dps is easily obtainable on a regular basis if you use your buffs prefight. To give an idea 150 dps will beat out 75+% of all scouts and brawlers that you group with, as well as alot of conjurors, necros and less skilled warlock/wiz's. So to address this problem here are a few rules to live by for Zerkers to be:

1. Use Proc skills early and often. In an average group Blood Rage is ready every fight, and Anarchy every fight to every other. These skills should not be overlooked when not MT"ing either. Too many Berserkers when MA'ing won't buff Anarchy and Blood Rage when MA'ing. Be careful with Anarchy in multi mob fights though, it generates a ton of hate.
2. Don't spam Vanquish and Frenzy immediately on average fights. If you want to maximize damage in an average herioc fight don't spam these two skills. At level 42+ most fights should last slightly less than a minute in a good group. To maximize damage output first throw out your moderate to high damage spells with a quick timer first (mutilitate, etc.). The reason for this is, because you use them first they'll be back up by the time you get through Vanquish and Frenzy. Frenzy/Vanquish on the other hand won't be back up after doing the reverse skill ordering. This not only maximizes damage potential, but allows the MT (if you are MA'ing) to gather better agro on the target.
3. Switch targets before they're dead when you have an AOE or AOE proc up. If a mob only has a sliver of damage and Blood Rage is running or you have a Stunning Cry/Roar, Berserker Assault on deck switch targets early. No point in having your group waste damage on a target you're about to kill with AOE.
4. Maximize damage on the startup when you have your buffs up. A good charge strat with a Berserker is Anarchy, Blood Rage, Stunning Cry/Roar, then Taunt/AOE taunt. By using the Stunnning Cry/Roar it gives you enough time to pop off a taunt while the mob is stunned. On mezzing mobs this pre-taunt damage could be the difference between your mage/scout/healer getting railed while you unmez.
5. When in an average group and MT'ing with a good healer, go 2-hand or dual wield. By 40+ many healers are super powerful and the need for 2x healers for groups to deal with potential adds becomes somewhat less pronounced than in the 20-30's. As long as you don't have more than 3 yellow mobs on you with no mezzer you should be fine with a single templar, mystic, etc.

Disclaimer: This list does not include all damage maximizing berserker strategies and I would openly accept any criticism or suggestions of things to add to the list. The main purpose of writing this post is to give Berserkers, new and old alike, insights into better playing their class. While I'm not 50 and I don't feel the pain of those who lived the glory days of Rampage, I have adapted to the way the class plays now and AVERAGE dps for me is 200-250 in a small group and with a good large group 300-400 dps is a common occurance on yellow-orange herioc mobs. Hope you enjoyed the post, leave feedback/suggestions.

Please supply us with some parsed log files of where and when you parsed out 300 - 400 DPS Sabin and those Brawlers and casters you group with must be some very very very non skilled players, cause Scouts i group with, do like 250 DPS sustained, Casters i grouped with do like 300 - 350 DPS sustained, Brawlers i group with do around the 170 - 220 sustained ( Depending on wether its a Monk or Bruiser because Bruisers do a significant amount more then a Monk ) and to finish off, i grouped with a caster the other night who pushed out 450 DPS at lvl 50, he is probally the highest DPS caster on the server at the moment, if not the highest he would be in the Top 3 for sure, and your trying to say that you can do 300 - 400 DPS at lvl 47.........if you want to be nerfed again Sabin this isnt a very good time to be asking for one man.......or are you trying to start a flame war?

And whats this about as long as you dont have more then 3 yellow mobs on you at a time with no mezzer you will be fine, lol, are you colour blind and fighting green mobs thinking there yellow? 3 yellow con mobs ^^ would near, IF not wipe a group with no mezzer and one healer, and id say that 97% of groups that encounter 3 yellow ^^ mobs evac or run, with one healer and no mezzer in a group like that, you would be hard pressed to live to tell that story. The other 3% stand there and think they can beat it and half wipe and half escape to only have to perform a corpse run, recieve Debt and more then likely spilt after a poor performance of leadership. As for Blood Rage, ive parked mine, 20% of my HP for a 20% chance to proc 80 - 130 damage for 30 seconds? No thanks. Total waste of HP, specially if you have 3 unlinked lvl 49 - 50 ^^ mobs on you.

No offense Sabin, but your theory sounds good, i how ever do it a different way, but its my way, but i cant see how its possibly that you are doing 300 - 400 DPS, sorry but just not possible.
Message Edited by -Aonein- on 04-13-2005 05:05 AM

Note: When looking at my DPS please keep in mind I have a master drop weapon with a monster proc (ancient flame), Ebon armor, and ALL of my high damage or "quality" spells at t5 are adept 3 (vanquish, tides of war, mutilate, frenzy, anarchy, stunning roar, berserker assault, and the 49 spell will be adept 3'd as well).

Aonein - I play both a berserker and a templar. I have been the healer in groups where we were taking on epic x2 mobs in Zek with the main mob being a ^^ yellow and the 4 minions being even con yellows. I was the only healer and we did not have an enchanter / illusionist. We fought these types of mobs for about 1 1/2 - 2 hours and never had to evac. Of a matter of a fact, I always had atleast 25% of my mana left.
Now, this could be because I have paid close attention to my spells and have all adept 1's and many adept 3's and the players that I grouped with knew how to play their characters really well, but it is possible to fight multiple yellow mobs without a second healer or enchanter / illusionist.
These were all linked mobs though. This could/would make a huge difference.
Message Edited by MasterKane on 04-12-2005 12:29 PM

We still do good, but you need to tell them about your flail, its a good weapon to score high DPS. You wont get that high with the average crook.

Also comparing with scouts, specially steamfont scouts is kind of easy for us to outdmg them, because frankly only 5% of them, maybe even less of a % got decent skills, I can name all the 5 or so scouts who I ever did one (1) t5 adept3 done. Man, SF scouts are in love with app4 and adepts1.

Oh and my numbers are fact, since Im the one that can make *all* of theirs adepts3 and I get 0 request daily with expcetion of guild guys (not all of them) and a couple (2) unguilded guys.

A good and honest parser helps too. :smileywink:

Sabin those are great strats you outlined but im sorry, i have to call BS on your 300-400 dps claim ...... NEVER HAVE I EVER hit above 241 dps in any given fight ( mind you the lowest all my T5 skills are is adept 3 + i have Master 1 Relentless battering, Mutilate, Vanquish ) I use pristine imbued Ebon Warhammer, two pristine imbued ebon leafblades and also have a pristine imbued cedar bow for the added chance of proc ( i proc 4-6 times on a 1 min fight average ) also everything but hands is Ebon armor as well , curn eye neck etc

I really want to see how you were able to break 300+ dps because i cant believe that

I don't know if you'll believe me still or not, but I can have my guildies and other Steamfonters post in here. Also, MVeteran (hello Ratazana) could ask people in Steamfont to confirm my claims (Kebie, Growler, Wolfendorf, Kittie, Flitch, Alastaire, Jado, Dracoris have all seen the magic). I mentioned my gear before, but since my dps is a point of controversy I'll go ahead and give you some stats.
Royal Great Flail:
Damage Rating - 55.4
Damage - 155-465
Delay - 3.8 sec
Proc: Ancient Glyph of Flame
12% chance to do 150-297 damage (will confirm the actual damage on proc tonight, EQ2 players doesn't list it).

Ebon Imbued I believe has a 50 Damage Rating 2 handed and a 5% chance to proc, and dual wield ebons are I believe around 24 damage rating with about 5% chance to proc apiece.

Yes my wife and i used to Duo these, there hardly Epic mobs, there more or less just normal mobs with extra HP, same goes for the lizardmen camps in Feerrott, once you clear the dynamic camp and pop the center group a epic x2 group which is exactally the same as the group you clear to force spawn the epic x2, and all it is is a group with extra HP and my wife and I can duo those too. You wouldnt even need 2 groups if they were red con, thats how weak they are.
Its not the fact that having adept I's or III's would help with 3 unlinked lvl 49 - 50 ^^, its the speed a Templar would have to heal, and its not possible for the amount of damage you would be taking. Im lvl 48 and the only mobs that are Yellow to me now is in Sol Eye Temple and Permafrost. Sol Eye is mainly grouped encounters and Permafrost is mainly ^^ country and if you had 3 of these mobs on you, then you wouldnt be standing there with one healer for the simple fact, they wouldnt be able to heal you fast enough.
Message Edited by -Aonein- on 04-13-2005 04:24 PM

Well im guessing, but do you only get around 300 DPS on group mobs? Cant see it possible to be getting the 300 - 400 DPS on a single ^^ mob. I myself with a good group have done 170 DPS sustained on single ^^ mobs with dual weild pristine imbued cedar batons, but thats with a Illusionist, Bard and Warden, i dont like 2 hand weps, but the bulk of the DPS on a parser is coming from AoE's and a 2 hand wep is best to fire alot of AoE procs. 300 - 400 DPS spread out over a entire group is around 75 - 100 DPS per mob. With the 3.8 second delay on that Flail it would most likely proc ALOT plus your procs from Anarchy, Blood Rage and also any other people that you have in your group that can add a proc buff to you would have a higher chance at procing because of the slower delay on the Flail. Also one more question, is that proc a AoE effect or single target DD?

Proc is single target.
300 + dps can be on any mob 1x ^^, 2x ^ or 3-4x No ^. The 400 dps is easier on the 3-4x No ^ variety, but is not exclusive to only those. You had asked for pictures so I got them for you. Here are the links to three pictures taken tonight. One is of 387 dps on a single target level 49 or 50 mob, another was a 3x No ^ mob level 50 mob that I did 421 dps to, and the final picture is a back to back parse to prove that the type of DPS I do is sustainable. People can argue whatever they want, but look at the shear mass of damage being done. The group this was done in was tonight in Solesk Eye. I was grouped with a level 50 Ranger (Katclaw), Level 45 Coercer (Breezeria), Level 44 Mystic (Abidan), Level 49 Troubador (Kittie), and Level 47 Templar (Dokk). For the record these were not the only times I reached 300 dps tonight (ask MVeteran, I spammed him about 8-10 parses), but posting 10 pictures to get my point across is pointless.

http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/image_view.vm?imageId=315599#
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/image_view.vm?imageId=315600#
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/image_view.vm?imageId=315606#
Message Edited by Sabin the Great on 04-13-2005 02:49 AM

Do you comfortabely generate that number Sabin or burn up lots of power doing it?

While having Adept3s in the majority of your damage skills is a nice boost, the BIG damage increases come from:
a) Troub, Mystic, Templar for strength buffs (to over 400) and AC debuffs.
b) Proc chance (whether on equipment or from buffs - Troub, Coerc, self) is tied to weapon speed in this game, but combat arts are not (and each combat art attack gives a chance to proc). This causes a major imbalance with slow 2H weapons (and a 3.8s Royal Great Flail is sloooow). e.g. in a ~20sec fight you might have 20-30 attacks (more if it's an AE fight), which might be 4-5k damage from procs alone in Sabin's group (the flail could have a damage rating of 10 and still pull awesome DPS).

(Note to Sabin: Get an imbued cedar bow )

The major point of me posting my dps was to prove that it was possible on a regular basis. All the ney sayers said that it was impossible for a zerker to do that kind of damage regardless of group. Further more, I can do 300+ dps with templars and assasins as supposed to Mystic's and Bards. So my DPS is not reliant on only my group (although it certainly helps).

To answer the question of can I do it comfortably, if I was in that type of group or any group with a coercer/illusionist/bard yes. Without one I might not go so nuts, but again the point of this post was to prove it possible to still do insane damage.

I wouldn't trust that parser. It has bugs in crediting the correct damage. I pointed out to the writer that if a player has the same name as a spell they get credit for the damage. You know what he did. He told me it was beyond his scope to fix and banned my name from being entered in the program. Too bad there isn't a really good alternative. Statlyzer isn't that good because you can cheat and get higher dps by just waiting.

I'm sure you're in the 250+ range but I doubt those high 300 and 400+ numbers.

Although I listed it first, the total strength wasn't the main point I was making. If you have (only) 200 str, 150% haste, anarchy, blood rage, weapon+bow with procs, a master rage proc for that mob-type, proc buffs from bards/casters/healers/whatever and wield a 3.8sec weapon you'll parse at massive damage just from the procs, merely because proc rate isn't scaled correctly for combat arts (I mean... you probably consistently pull 200+ DPS while solo). Increasing your strength will, of course, further increase the damage.

The situation was even more imbalanced before the last patch when most of those procs were counted as additional attacks and could in turn fire more procs.

So yes, it's very very possible to consistently rake-in massive DPS, but it's largely due to you weilding a weapon which the vast majority of Berserkers would not have access to which takes advantage of this design flaw.

Simple experiments: check some damage logs for total damage done by procs vs other sources, then repeat using something like a 2.3sec Crook. My expectation is your damage will drop by 40%, and almost all of that will be from reduced proc rate (and not just the particular weapon proc).


edit: To further make the point... Whether you have a 2sec weapon, or a 4sec weapon, the number of attacks you will perform does not vary much in short fights (in a 20sec fight you might have 15 hits from arts with either weapon, then add 11 hits with the slow weapon, or 16 with the fast one). If you have a proc which states 10% chance to proc, that will be (0.1/3)*4*26 = 3.5 procs average for the fight with the 4.0sec weapon versus (0.1/3)*2*31 = 2.1 procs average for the fight with the 2.0sec weapon (or ~70% increase in proc damage).
(Numbers are examples to illustrate the point - test it yourself to get real ones)
Message Edited by Pin StNeedles on 04-13-2005 04:20 PM

Funny, because when I run a parse and someone else runs a parser (not necessarily the same one) and we compare results we get the same numbers. So, under that line of thinking I'm the luckiest SOB on the planet to get credit for an additional 50-150 damage on a regular basis. Also I'm have yet to see the "Sabin" spell for which I can get credit for.
It's funny. At first no one believed I could do it. Now that I've shown it to be possible, it's gotta be some mistake. So I show that other people are parsing me at the same damage. What's next? I'm a hacker.

Damage nerf to that uber wep you use will be next, cause thats the bulk of your damage output, that wep is just sicko.

No. There shouldn't be a damage nerf (or speed nerf) to that particular weapon as it isn't specific to that weapon, it's a broken game mechanic (broken meaning unintended by the designers) which scales with weapon speed.
What needs to be done is that procs triggered by combat arts have their chances weighted by the cast-time of the art, rather than the delay of the weapon wielded. This would go a LONG way to balancing the proc rates of different weapons, and would result in the desired effect of DW being of equivalent DPS to 2h (currently they're only equivalent if you don't use any combat arts).
Message Edited by Pin StNeedles on 04-13-2005 07:07 PM