This from the Allakhazam dev chat: [18:50] <Aeralik> I am currently looking into some of the ranger issues. The arrows will be made level 70 min level with a level 80 use level. Overall they will get a slight rise to dps from combat arts and I added a bit of utility to them as well. If this means they will check at T8 and therefore bows will do the damage they should, I for one am happy. But we're holding you to this, Aeralik.
I'd really like a time frame. Next month? Next year? 10 years? Happy it is getting worked on, and the 70 level arrow with 80 level usage, sounds perfect (assuming level 80 bows will do 100% with the level 70 arrow). Glad our arts are getting increased, and am looking forward to seeing what utility we are getting. Here's to hoping...
Yeah I was wondering what level 80 use level meant exactly. What you said seems to make sense, but it also kind of sounds like hes saying you won't be able to use them until 80 which would seem like a crazy high nerf. I always thought a plus to ability range raid wide (and thus group wide) would be a neat in character buff for rangers. Like plus 5 range to all melee, ranged and spell casting.
Runewind wrote: I just don't get what he's saying here, and the answers don't look very reassuring. The arrows are going to be useable at level 80 only, but will be level 70 for damage calculations ? Are these new arrows, or are they changing the level 67 ones ? Does that mean anyone not at level 80 is going to have to use level 57 ammo instead ? If so, this is a *massive* nerf to everyone not at level 80. Or, is he saying that the ammo will be level 80 for damage calculation purposes, but can be used by anyone level 70 or above ? If so, this is *exactly* what Rangers have been asking for. Will this be a new recipe, or an automatic respec of the existing ferrite ones ? Also, what's this comment about CA DPS increase ? Ammo has *nothing* to do with CA damage. If they are increasing CA DPS that's nice (not that anyone asked for that), but don't use that as a bodge rather than fixing the underlying issue with ammo. But if they do fix ammo, then this is a nice cherry on top. The bit of utility is nice, but is it going to be useful ? Useful enough to get us onto raids rather than other one of the many other classes that can match our DPS ? We will have to wait and see I guess, but utility doesn't matter if you have DPS. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what turns up on the test server...whenever that might be...and take it from there. But I'm not holding my breath, there is nothing in that dev statement that reassures me at all.
I'm pretty sure what he means is the minimum level to use them will be 70 but the arrows will be used by the bow as if level 80. It's something and I'm happy to see that SOME fix is going in. As far as a time frame he said Gu44 I guess I forgot that part of the quote. So we're looking at about a month and a half.
Runewind wrote: OK, so that would mean that all T8 weapons should do exactly the damage the stats say they should do. If true, this is absolutely fantastic news I look forward to somebody testing it and posting findings in a month or so (my accounts will have expired by then) and if it all looks good it might just convince me to renew
As with any arrow, the level at which you can use it is not the level at which it functions. Level 55 Trueshot Arrows from the Tunare miracle, Level 67 ferrite arrows and Level 70 tenderwood arrows all function at level 60-69. Since arrows have been assigned use-levels with a hidden function-level, Rangers have never really known what level their arrows actually are, making any concrete calculations about arrow level affecting bow damage impossible. In reality, swapping any of the previously listed ammunition examples only changes your ranged damage based on the arrow's damage bonus; therefore, although they have vastly different minimum levels for use, they're all actually the same level. If Aeralik honestly and truly is adding minor extra combat art damage, introducing ammunition that functions as level 80 and granting us the utility we've been crying for since the game's inception, I'll be both surprised and impressed. I'm not holding my breath, though; and, although this would solve a lot of universal problems for the Ranger class, it doesn't solve the problem of poor and lazy itemization throughout RoK. We also have no timetable for when these changes will be implemented, although previous posts from Aeralik state that our issues are too numerous to include between GU42 and GU43. That claim in itself is outrageous, since these problems have existed long before the epic weapons were released. If these changes are implemented in GU43, I might considering remaining a customer of SoE. If not, I'll just wait for Warhammer, Age of Conan or go back to playing World of Warcraft.
Well he confirmed it in the FFA chat after the dev chat. Need to be 70 to use them ,but will make level 80 bows work at their full potential. Calculate based on level 80.
As I promised, here's the info we gleaned after the dev chat in the eq2-ffa channel with all the pointless chatter edited out, of course. And forgive my typos. It's not as easy as some think to type on a laptop, even with small fingers <GwynethNajena> Aeralik, just to clarify on the arrows, did you mean that they would be useable from 70 and scale to 80 or only useable at 80? you can help clear up a questin in the ranger ww <Aeralik> arrows are currently 67 to use which means a level 67 player can equip them. the arrows are rated level 70 though so for calculations and scaling they use level 70. the fix is basically the same they will be 70 to use but calculate based on level 80 <Aeralik> im also giving them a 5 level leeway so fabled items which go above level 80 for a rating wont scale down <nektulosbeele> Aeralik ummmm, small problem with that. If lvl 67 arrows are actually lvl 70, how come when you equip lvl 67 arrows with an RSB, the /weapon damage of an RSB is lower then when you had no arrows equipped? <Aeralik> rigid scale bow is level 74 technically so scales down to 70 <nektulosbeele> Ok, in that case, that is mind blowing, but it does explain things... so a lvl 70 bow is actually lvl 74, but a lvl 67 arrow is lvl 70... got it... Dude, that is screwy <nektulosbeele> Aeralik the only other thing all the rangers would like to know is if there is any significant number of other people's buffs that we will be able to benefit from <nektulosbeele> it is not logical that so many buffs benefit melee but not ranged... why an earring can benefit melee but not ranged... we all know you have seen the lists. <Aeralik> im gonna add rangers to some procs like the tradeskill rings but expect some changes to proc mechanics Edit: No idea why there was so much space down here.
Here is the full text of the question and answer: <Tamat> Beele: Do the devs see it more important to keep ranger DPS down and give them more group/raid utility, or will there be an ammo fix so that in light of having very little utility Rangers can be mostly T1 DPS again? <Aeralik> I am currently looking into some of the ranger issues. The arrows will be made level 70 min level with a level 80 use level. Overall they will get a slight rise to dps from combat arts and I added a bit of utility to them as well. <Aeralik> so stayed tuned for gu44 there should be some nice changes for you guys And here is the clarification in FFA after the chat: [17:51] <Aeralik> arrows are currently 67 to use which means a level 67 player can equip them. the arrows are rated level 70 though so for calculations and scaling they use level 70. the fix is basically the same they will be 70 to use but calculate based on level 80 So it looks like in GU44 Arrows will finally work properly and based on Yellow text, wich I think was a sperate part of the addtions to Arrows, it looks like arrows will get some added benifits too.
Andok wrote: I don't think I would go tossing that away just yet... . Forgot to add: Trust, but verify.
Andok wrote: Lies! I felt that sharp pain in my back! Anyways another wonderful milestone reached now that I have my own voodoo doll
Amenti wrote: I think that is a LITTLE harsh. I have never been a big fan of Aeralik to be honest. I had the misfortune of starting to read all of the realted Rangers boards in Decemeber and that was when the flame warns began HIGH SEASON. That said I never saw him to lie. He may have blown us off, told us we were "fine" when we were not (an oppinion not a lie) and he may have appeared to threaten us on occassion (lateral shifts anyone), but lie or deceive? Haven't seen it. From a business aspect it would be silly too. The chat was on an independant board and the info is for all to see. If he doesn't come through I am sure there would be heck to pay. I did have one concern however. when he said the following "<Aeralik> im gonna add rangers to some procs like the tradeskill rings but expect some changes to proc mechanics" What changes? If there are changes are they just to how procs are done off of raid wide buffs or all procs? Are the changes only going to be Ranger specific or are they going to apply to all classes that are procing off the buff? Only asking this in terms of fairness. It appears that the procs will be "reduced" in someway and in the interest of fairness such changes should A) apply to all classes and B) not effect soloing characters, so their own procs should not be effected. There are players out there who prefer to solo or simply go with small groups and, just as there are Rangers who cry foul that PvP unfairly effected PvE, it would be sad if the "Raid" crowd unfairly effected the Solo and/or single group crowd. I am however willing to wait and see. If the gains are more than losses GREAT. If it ends up balancing out though I will be cranky beyond belief. Today I was called an "old school ranger or a masochist" by a guild mate earlier today when he commented on me not betraying yet due to all of the issues. I told him I was giving it until GU 44, then Gisallo may have been going to the "dark side". Being on a RP server that would have caused "issues" in my Guild. I am glad that it appears that this will not be necessary. That being said, just in case the change to proc mechanics is wickedly insane, I have my voodoo doll sitting next to the keyboard, the pins are sitting over an oil lamp to make sure they are hot and I have some plat in the bank to start replacing Adept 3's and Masters if I betray.
Nice to see that the arrow issue is being resolved, just hope they remember throwing daggers, shurikens etc when they impliment it.
Greetings Aeralik. Please give us some details about your fix. This is of grave importance to the ranger community. We will all be very relieved if you can confirm that you are working on this, that it is scheduled for on of the next couple of updates, that "use level of 80" means that lvl 80 bows does full damage. You can go technical as some of us have been observing the arrow problem for a long time and are quite familliar with it. Simply put: Please confirm what you said in the chat and give us some details.
I am pleased with the news if they come to pass the way I imagine! I have never been vocal on these issues (I just don't like to complain and some of the issues are non existant for my mostly soloing self) but raising CA damage a bit is exactly what I would have suggested. It seems that the lateral shift Aeralik was talking about will happen and that this so called shift relates to bows, not over all dps (wishful thinking?). I also think that the changes will make the dps gap between **** and fabled rangers shrink because bow itemization in RoK will actually be pretty good when the changes go in (right?). Hey Webin, re-sort that list
RoXxer wrote: Did you not read the first page of this thread? He already did all this. Level 67 arrows will be made into level 70 arrows and will let level 80 bows work at their full potential. We are getting some more utility. CA's are getting a little more damage and its ALL coming in GU 44. And the fact we relayed all this from a dev chat and his reply wasn't him saying its not true is also confirmation. Heres the official dev chat log as well. http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Dev_...hat_Feb_28_2008 I can understand why some rangers may want up to "quintuple confirmation" but its quite clear.
Thanks for the link. Well I believe he will make those changes. The thing that worries me, is that when he makes these changes (fixing both arrows, boosting CA damage AND giving us utility), dps could improve more than some people expected and then we are in for another nerf..again.. And then the rollercoaster launches.... We have seen it happen several times. *worries too much*
