The third and fourth position of the Stam Line are the important ones....4-4-8-8 is the ideal ((If you plan to tank at all))...If you only want the dps from the line then 4-8-8 would be good too I guess...though I would feel like it was a waste of points to put so many into buckler Reversal and not get any of the avoidance that the line offers...but then I don't play my zerk as a scout, I tank and dish out DPS...
Brigandy, I don't recommend investing more than 4 points into either of the first two options. Buckler Reversal will only activate once every 30 seconds, so while it is bonus damage you can get more damage for the extra 4 points if you spend them elsewhere instead of maxing this skill at 8. Just spend the minimum you need to spend to get to the important part of the STA tree which is the third choice for dps and the 4th choice for a tanking role. Only have 20 AAs to spend and you're working on the STA line: Just want to worry about doing dps? 4-4-8, and start spending your remaining points in another tree. Plan on using your buckler to tank raid content? 4-4-8-4 and eventually get to 4-4-8-8 as you continue to earn more AAs.
Thank you CountJackla and Conjurer for your replies. After getting my prior one word response of "read" I immediatly assumed the Zerker boards wasnt the place for me to be. But after I got a reply email today I decided to take a peak and read both of your replies. Sadly enough, I did go 4/8/8/8 and started 2 points into the STR line. I am now approaching lvl 60 and my main role now is tanking. With that being said, if the AA merchant is back up I will respec once again and take your advice of going 4/4/8/8 and move the remaining 4+2 points to fit the role. There is alot of good informaton on this topic its just tough for me considering i have 3 t6+ toons and 2 t5+ toons and so many choices and boards to read. I hear how the zerker AA lines pre and post EOF are terrible yet theres such a difference in opinion on which lines to take for which roles. Thanks again guys for your input and I will continue to check back for further info. -Brig
Also the second choice in the KOS tree is a mix between INT and STR. I would assume that if ones' focus is for tanking first, dps second and your going to fully utilize the STA line, then putting points into the STR would make more since at first glance because the small increase in parry and attack speed doesnt seem to outway the melee crit, executioners wrath (which seems prime if your using a buckler at t7 plus one of the many 1h fabled axes out there) and possible even the hate gain for obvious reasons. I thought about specing 5 points into the INT line incase I wanted to yeild a 2h fabled sword (lord knows my server has a abundence of them) for the dps role. However I'm again assuming I would loose the overall dps from the buckler line and the 76% double attack. Any advice?
If you go Sta line then you can't get the same dps out of a 2hander as you can out of a 1hander and buckler. If you put all your points into Crits and haste (str/int), or find gear for haste and put your points into crits and dps (str/wis), or forget about raid tanking and go a full on dps role with 4-4-8 str, 4-4-8 int, 4-4-8 wis and use a 2hander you can get up too and even exceed the dps of 76% double attack. But just as the old saying goes, you can't serve two masters...you will have to choose. If you choose 2hander then place your points accordingly. The ideal is to max out crits, and get as much haste as possible with the slowest weapon you can find...slow weapons having the really big top end damage numbers...ie Vrakskis Claw Club. If you choose 1hander and Buckler then get all the points you can in Sta lines 3rd and 4th positions, and then place points in another line to maximize what ever your weak points are...The good news about this choice is you can tank raid content while still putting out huge parse numbers for dps. What ever you choose, have fun...its only a game.
I've updated the guide for the post EOF world, removing a few errors, and updating bits and pieces of the formulas where applicable, and removing numbers where they are no longer useful due to diminishing return curves. I am also adding the following appendix on underhasting/overhasting, which I suggest most berserkers read. Synchronizing Haste and your weapon, the black hole of DPS in losing attacks: Most combat arts have a cast time of 0.5s and a recovery time of 0.5s. This suggests it is optimal to tune your auto-attack to strike in the small windows between CAs, which occur once every 1s during a standard Combat Art stream. Achieving this goal however is going to be very dependent on your weapon, but there are some general rules we can work with: 1. The faster your weapon, the less haste you need to reduce it to a 1.0s window. Overhasting reduces it past 1.0s. 2. The slower your weapon, the more haste you need to reduce it to a 1.0s window. Underhasting means you don't reach the 1.0s window. 3. The more haste, the more damage you will do overall when not using combat-arts. Slower weapons with very high haste are superior DPS, but very high haste is difficult to reach. Faster weapons will outperform slower ones at moderate haste levels though. So we have some conflict regarding two different goals, when the goal is maximizing DPS you want to get as much haste as possible, but you also don't want to overhaste your weapon, which reduces your number of attacks during CA use. Similarly, you don't want to risk using a very slow weapon, not getting enough haste, and losing attacks in that fashion either. So we want a system where our auto-attacking works with our combat art use, not working against each other. It may be great that your combat art did 700 damage, but if it cost you 60% of your auto-attack damage over the same period, and you would've hit for 400 twice, you're losing 60% of 800 damage, or 480 damage. Suddenly your CA only net you 220 damage. How does it work? First let me point out that I am using haste%s, not haste rating. Check your own %s! Let's imagine that you use a 1.6 speed weapon, and have 75% haste. (weaponspeed/1+haste%) = attack speed = .914s. You can attack every .914s, but when using CAs you only get to attack once a second. In other words you're losing (1-.914) = 0.086s on every auto-attack. (.086/.914) = 0.094 or 9.4% of your auto-attack damage is being lost. Or, you're wasting some of your haste. The optimal hasting for a 1.6 speed weapon is 60% during combat art streams, as 1.6/1.6 = 1. What if you have less than 60% haste? How about 40%? 1.6/1.4 = 1.14. You use a CA, and don't swing, as your attack isn't cooled down. Next CA goes off, and after that you attack. You attacked once in 2 seconds instead of once in 1.14 seconds. You lost .86 seconds worth of auto-attack, or in other words you're losing .86/1.14 = 0.754 or 75.4% of your auto-attack DPS while using combat arts. Ouch! This is a pretty heavy penalty, if your CA is weak you may be LOSING DPS! Underhasting can be devastating! How about a 2.0 speed weapon? A 2.0 speed weapon does best at 100% haste, which is somewhere around 116 rating for example. 2.0/2.0 = 1. Getting that much haste can be difficult though. How about if you only have 50% haste? 2.0/1.5 = 1.33s attack speeds. You will not attack after one CA, but will after the second. Again it is like you have no haste at all during CA streams. You're losing out on .67s of auto-attack for every swing, which is 33% of your auto-attack damage, ouch! Again underhasting takes a big bite out of your DPS! Similarly, should you have tremendous haste, you will lose DPS if you haste over 100% with a 2.0 speed weapon during CA streams. Finally, what about extreme weapons? For example a 2.5 speed weapon? Well, in this case it would be optimal to tune it to a 2.0s window, as you'd attack every 2 CAs. Reaching a 1.0s window is impossible with a 2.5 speed weapon. How much haste is good during CA streams? Well 2.5/1.25 = 2, so 25% haste reaches the 2.0s window. Additional haste is only going to result in lost DPS during CA use. For even slower weapons you simply have to synch them to other second interval windows. IE 3.0s, 4.0s, etc. For a real world example, I reach 88% DPS, and 78% haste alone, with 76% double attack, and I average 600-650 auto-attack dps. I use a 2.0 speed weapon. 2/1.78 = 1.12. I can only get an attack off every other CA if I stream them together because my attack speed is > 1.0. So that means .88s lost per attack, .88/1.12 = 78.5%. In other words I lose 78.5% of my auto-attack DPS for using two combat arts in a row! .785*600 = 471 DPS. Using that second combat art costs me 471 DPS, so unless it does -minimum- 471 damage, I just lost DPS by using a combat art in a stream. Even if it does more than 471 damage in a hit, I only gain that much damage -471. So a good knock for 900 really only boosted my DPS in that second by 429. This is something to be very careful of. Now, if I didn't stream the CAs together (queue them) and waited 1.12s perfectly, I could reduce my loss. But that's difficult to do. So playing carefully and timing your abilities carefully are very necessary to doing good DPS. Match your haste to your weapon where applicable, and remember it is always better to overhaste slightly than it is to underhaste slightly.
Wow all this mathematic research mus be tie consuming, hehe But thank you very much for sharing, your thread is very helpful!
First, you're welcome. I enjoy the mental exercise. Second, it's not particularly time consuming to be honest. Doing a 20+ variable multi-linear regression analysis on women's working habits between 1960 and 1975 using econometrics on the other hand... Though it is fun to reach empirical conclusions that some women produced more value by the dollar in household work than their husbands did on the market. Doing simple stuff like this is refreshing because it is straightforward, and because it is a lot more fun and interesting. Not to mention I get to use it in an interesting way. Anyways, the main reason I posted again was to let everyone know that I have copies of the important bits and pieces of information in this post. The forums are being transferred in a few days, and that means old threads are dying and becoming unstickied. I'll do my best to get the guide back up and intact shortly after the full forums are operational.
Accelleration strike at rank 8 gives 38 haste..just incase you missed it in my edit of the other post.
Hmmm,lots in this thread to think about. Much of it seems to be directed to group tanking however. I'm the OT in raiding guild that has done all the KOS raid instances and is working on the EOF raid zones. I recently respeced to agility/int line to boost avoidance and belive I see a major improvement in soloing/group instances with this build, but my impression is that raid mobs in EOF are hitting me about the same amount and I'm sure they are hitting me harder. I'm clearly NOT dpsing the way I did before with the stamina line. All in all, I'm not as taken with my current specs as I'd hoped to be. Are these incorrect observations? Is there a mit at which the raid tank will see more improvement from the int/agility lines? Comments? Lets discuss the situation for raid zerks.
So some bad news everyone: My current FAQ is almost 2.25 times larger than the new forums allow a post to be. That means I can't edit it anymore. :thumbdown: I guess my post was grandfathered in. Naturally there are some updates to make regarding GU32 making ultimates cost 2 points, and 22 in a tree, but I can't make them just yet. I will consider setting up an entirely new thread in the next few days/weeks, but I really hate the idea of posting it across 5-6 posts in a thread. That really irks me when people do that. I also dislike the idea of losing the history and discussion of the thread, and find it humorous that at over 21 thousand views it is likely one of the most viewed threads on the forums. Regardless, updates will occur sooner or later, and this thread may end up fully retired, so get in any last words if you wanted.
Kemt@Venekor wrote: [p]That is bad news as this is a great FAQ[/p][p]I had a question for you though, I could have sworn your initial build was 448 agi 4488 sta and 41 Int, but i see in your sig that you have str, sta, int. So my question is do you feel the Agi line isnt as good as str line? or was it your gameplay style that made you change?[/p][p]Vestrus 51 zerker Venekor [/p]
A good question. The answer comes with a bit of history, though. My original build was: 4 4 8 AGI, 4 8 8 8 STA, 4 1 INT. (16 AGI 28 STA 5 INT with 1 in BW) I became the MT for a raiding Alliance, and as this was pre-EOF, mit was king. I respecced to a new build of: 4 5 8 8 STA (24 in STA) 4 4 8 8 WIS (25 in WIS) Which to be honest was not a very wise spec. I would have been better served to get 5 into INT again somehow, but I wanted a break from using Acceleration Strike. I would have respecced, but I built up my respec cost building my FAQ, and wasn't interested in blowing 10 plat on a less than 3-5% dps difference from auto-attack. I was this way until the day EOF hit. When EOF hit, some things changed. First off mit got mega-nerfed, second DPS and haste changed mechanics and became MUCH easier to get, and third EOF achievements allowed ways to spec into new options. The result was the new build: 4 4 8 STR, 4 8 8 8 STA, 4 1 INT I chose to pick up crits finally, since they were the best DPS boost to me on single targets, and as a raid tank, I care mostly about single-target. I also chose to pass over AGI this time because EOF let me keep Open Wounds up more often, reducing the utility of Cyclone. Defensively I abandoned mitigation, as it was no longer very valuable to me. I also picked back up my missed Acceleration Strike, and it was a much welcome boost to my single target DPS. Finally they changed the ultimates to cost 2 points. I dropped 2 reversal for perseverance just for more power endurance raid-tanking, bringing me to my current build of: 4 4 8 STR, 4 6 8 8 2 STA, 4 1 INT. I still toy with the idea of going further STR or INT, exchanging one for the other. I also toy with the idea of trading my crits for Cyclone and also the DEF skill in AGI, but as for right now I am satisfied. To me there are a few definites to any build I have. 4 4 8 8 STA, and 4 1 INT are pretty much the starting point to any build I'll ever take, so that leaves me 21 points to toy with elsewhere.
[p]Kemt,[/p][p]Thanks for a wonderful analysis. As a new player who is just level 10 its great to know the options what lies ahead...[/p][p]Would it be possible for you to make a suggestion for a good solo/questing line for levelling up? Need to keep in mind that grouping might not always be possible and that raids are out of the question.[/p][p]Also as a new player some of the "(haste/def/parry etc etc) is easy to come by on gear" - doesnt hold true. Being broke and having no avenue to get gear other than random drops/questing.[/p][p]Keeping the above in mind, what would be a good build to get one to 70?[/p][p]Greatly appreciate your work and thank you for your help![/p]
You're welcome. Unfortunately I can't give you very good info relating to levelling and soloing, because well, I haven't levelled since the combat changes hit. Nor do I solo very much. --- As a more general note towards this thread, I am currently in consideration with a guildmate of mine who acts as a partner as far as figuring out all of the game formulas and such out. We're considering putting up an entire website (maybe like a wikipedia) to explain EQ2 game mechanics. It's a far-shot right now, but if that happens, any analysis here would simply find itself moving there, and being kept up to date for the entire community.
Okay guys and gals, if there are any berserkerettes out there. As said before, since my guide was grandfathered in from the old forums, it is now too large to properly exist. And as a result, it is not capable of being edited. Since the achievements have change significantly since then, and they're working to change many other game mechanics, I'm going to put the the guide down, and ask a moderator to unsticky it. I'll let it die of natural causes. I will do this next week. Take any and all information from it now, before it is removed. Regarding a new guide or more up to date version: My guild (mostly my RL friends, and the main reason I play this game) and I have decided to take a break from the game, and we've been out for 3-4 weeks now. Unfortunately we play on a PVP server with lower population, and our raid alliance was hitting a brickwall, and I am the only one who still checks in and plays much at all, but I don't stick around long. As such, it is unlikely I am going to put out another updated guide anytime soon, it really isn't worth my time since until RoK I am unlikely to clock more than 20-30 hours in total in EQ2. In order to bring us back, they'll have to fix the game's itemisation (unfortunately EQ2's biggest failing.) I'd like to continue playing when RoK rolls around, so worst comes to worst I may be looking for a new guild around then. That's assuming they don't either fix EQ2 up enough to get back the interest of my friends, or another MMO doesn't interest us instead. (Though personally I am only looking forward to Darkfall, and that's far in the future.)
this guide helped me much when i was starting my berserker as an alt like a year ago, i don't really know you any further as i wasn't ever active on the berserker forum, but it's always sad to see someone go (i was actually gone for 9 months, so maybe the same will happen to you when rok comes out ) well to come to the point, i would love to start over a new aa thread (with more space ^^) sometime in the next one to two weeks if this one is gonna drop, it'd be sweet if i could reuse large parts of your guide, refine and continue it, if that is ok with you.
Sticky removed via request. I look forward to having you back with us for RoK Kemt! You are going to miss a summer of fun, but you can visit it all when you get back.
