Warlock > Wizard

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Wizard, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Wizard Member

    No matter how many times you reply with some broken logic trying to justify your original contradictory post about the want for both class balance and class revenge, at this point I don't think it's accomplishing anything.

    You put your foot in your mouth, let's just move on and get back to posts relevant to balancing Sorcerers.
  2. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    Once finisher neck nerf comes in, we're not stronger than Wizards anymore. Moot point. Stacking all our temps with finisher neck @ the 30% mark was the only reason we were holding an advantage over Wizards. Finisher neck nerf hurts us more than you, balancing us, and putting Summoners over Sorcs.

    After Finisher Neck nerf, here is the dps heirarchy.


    Back to how it was.

    Now I patiently wait for you to start reminding me about pendulums again.
  3. Jerpa Member

    In what way does this change help summoners? Will still not share with pet and as necro potency dont give anything to lifeburn and soulburn
  4. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    It will share with pet.
  5. Konc3pt Active Member

    I like Pendulum's music.
  6. Daray Well-Known Member

    Actually, the finisher neck, when active, acts as a (*1.75) multiplier to the base ability values. You remove that multiplier from both and the same relative (percentage) difference would remain, just with lower raw numbers for both classes. It doesn't do anything to change the relative balance.
    Konc3pt likes this.
  7. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    I'll break this down here as well.

    On any fights where Focused Casting is used only once, it has been (up until now) best used @ the 30% mark to maximize its effectiveness.

    For the sake of simplicity, lets say that the Warlock and Wizard both have normalized spell damage of 4m at any given moment. Let's also say that FB gives the Wizard 50% more damage and that FC gives the Warlock 100% more damage. At any given moment, the Warlock would do 8m w/ their temp and the Wizard would do 6m with theirs. However, since both classes use their temps with the ADDITIONAL *1.75 multiplier, the difference goes from 8m vs 6m to 14m vs 10.5m, and the gap in dps is 3.5m instead of 2m. This matters, because our perception of balance is based on the final product, the final parse, the final numbers.

    The ability to overlap these temps strategically is what gives the warlock their percieved advantage over wizards.

    Up until 30%, if the Warlock saved their temp, the Wizard should be beating them. At 30%, the Warlock gained a advantage due to using both all temps (including focused casting) and stacked these temps with the *1.75 multiplier.

    While it is true that the Warlock gets a better temp with focused casting, it was the fact that we could magnify this difference against the 1.75 multiplier that created the end-gap in dps. Without being able to exaggerate our advantage, the fact that the non-temped dps advantage goes to the Wizard should leave the final numbers fairly even.
  8. Daray Well-Known Member

    This is just rewording what I said, but some how trying to pair it with a different conclusion.

    I'll even use your overly-simplified numbers:

    8/6 = 1.333... (+33.3%)
    14/10.5 = 1.333... (+33.3%)

    The problem isn't the finisher neck, because the same relative difference is maintained. The loss in raw numbers is irrelevant.
  9. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    It is not irrelevant. You can't say raw numbers are irrelevant when you want them to be.
    The notion that classes lack balance is based on the raw numbers. The raw numbers will change in your favor with the finisher neck change.

    As a result, the fact that non-temped time favors wizards and temped time favors warlocks will result in a similar raw number output.

    Over the long-haul, the more our raw numbers grow, the more wizards non-temp time advantage will grow and the more warlock temp-time advantage will grow, but the end raw numbers should be similar.
  10. Daray Well-Known Member

    This is a game of relative numbers, it always has been (and in every aspect). It doesn't matter whether you are parsing 2m or 200m if the relative (percentage) advantage is maintained.

    This discussion is like trying to juggle jello. Remember that you posted ...

  11. Zelox Active Member

    im sad that my plaguebringers are going to start maxing out for about ~9.5m initial hit
  12. Konc3pt Active Member

    Hurry up and get your assassin ready.
  13. Mogrim Well-Known Member

    I'm trying to explain this. It shouldn't be this difficult. :-(

    Focused Casting = (Warlock DPS)*(Focused Casting Modifier)
    FB total dps = (Wizard DPS)*(Fiery Blast Modifier)

    We both agree that Warlock DPS and Wizard DPS are not equal. We also agree that Focused Casting Modifier is better than Fiery Blast Modifier. HOWEVER, the problem you pose is that as Warlock and Wizard DPS increase and become proportionately closer, the Modifier imbalance would make our class too much stronger.

    However, what this assumes is that Warlock and Wizard dps growth is linear, which is not true. If your belief is that Focused Casting is "too much stronger" than your non-temped dps that it should be brought in line.

    This is incorrect. We need to see how the #'s will look once this is changed.
  14. Aniathor Member

  15. GIndotto Well-Known Member

    This thread was an entertaining read, today's paper was boring I needed something fun. Thanks mages.
  16. wazul Active Member

    after 2 minutes increments in right prestige poof. Raid leader explain strats : 3 or 4 minutes.
    wizard without increment is very crap. so another change is for example, 5 minutes before increments fade.
  17. Aniathor Member

    or a different raid leader
  18. GIndotto Well-Known Member

    You pop your temps before the raid leader explains strats? That's not a good way to start asking for temps to be buffed lol.
  19. Veta Well-Known Member

    lol'd... you do realize you have been crying about encounter transfers to blues since June 1st of 2013 in order to not "increase dps" but so you can faceroll and hit everything? Seeing you did not ask for changes on the damage hitting eveything would increase your dps right? Zelox posted a 31mil parse for you and you still disagree that locks are overpowered or none are not conpletely better than you? You claimed that out of your 8aes that only 1 was effective when 3-4 of his were top 5. I think you should let Mogrim do the talking >.<.
  20. SacDaddy420 Active Member

    This thread just got really confusing.
    Avahlynn likes this.