Warden Wishlist

Discussion in 'Warden' started by ARCHIVED-joyhinia, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. ARCHIVED-joyhinia Guest

    So the GU is incoming and many things we wanted looking at are still the same and doubt they will be changed at this late stage. So I figured I would start a wish list of what changes wardens want to see in the next expansion. Wardens are undenialably great healers with plenty of defensive capabilities but this doesn't mean that wardens don't need some fixes. So here is my personal wish list for wardens:
    1. Please revamp the warden tree completely the reuse aa's are completely wasted for raiding wardens are normally capped, the combat art conversions do less damage than the spells and the reuse is abysmal and the cure line is completely out of date.
    2. Druid rezzes (including furies) we have the worst rezzes of all the healers just bring us in line not asking for anything overpowered and please, please, please change the delayed rez sickness the amount of times I get moaned at over using that rez just isn't even funny.
    3. Death Interventions (this applies to all healers) please make the %health or make the numbers higher please.
    4. Groupwide offensive utility, please give us something we are the only healer with no groupwide offensive utility, Groupwide instinct would be great but i'd be happy with a temp buff that increases group dps (either accuracy/dps mod/haste/crit bonus/pot/etc)
    5. Temp pets please do something with them make them aoe immune or turn them into something useful please.
    6. Make cyclone raid friend not just group friend please.

    Wardens don't need huge changes just a few small one's and we will be able to get a spot in raids again with 2 group cures and massive potential hps there is not reason why wardens shouldn't get a raid spot, but with inquisitors being able to solo heal almost everything and bring greater utility (no i don't want as much utility as a inquisitor just enough to get wardens a spot in raids) there is just no reason to currently take a warden. Defensive healers healers seem to be dying at the moment even templars have taken a hit this expansion so either give defensive healers more utilty to even the game or make mobs so you need defensive healers.
  2. ARCHIVED-Arielle Nightshade Guest

  3. ARCHIVED-Lord_Ebon Guest

    Quite agree!
    #1: Reuse reductions are on spells we don't even cast that much to start or otherwise don't need further reduction on. The death preventions is okay since it's got a bit of crit bonus on it but it could still use a bit more buffing... the tree one is garbage (just like the tree). The CAs are BADLY in need of updating to current standards -- they should not do less damage than the spell versions and ideally should be tied to the spells so that the higher quality (app -> master) the spell the higher quality your CA.
    #2: Druid rezzes are bad, there's no doubt about it. I almost feel bad when I cast them... if they're going to stay pretty poor in terms of the sickness then at least give druids their main advantage: speed. Make Single rez a 1.5s cast and group rez a 5s cast (BASE -- meaning 0.75s and 2.5s at max cast speed).
    #3: Fully agree. Also, please change the AA so that these give a true 2 triggers at FULL strength rather than the current roundabout method where the second one triggers at lower strength. Alternatively, have the AA add a short (5s) AOE prevent once either hit triggers.
    #4: 500% agree. Wardens are literally the only priest without a significant group DPS buff and that's not fair. I'd settle for groupwide instinct, but some other melee DPS increaser would be nice, even as a temp.
    #5: Temp dogs is useful for absorbing random effects (like the one guy in the x2) and thats about it. AE immunity would give us a reason to cast them at least sometime, though without a significant damage boost we're still better off just casting a heal to proc infusion.
    #6: Agree. Cyclone often goes wasted since we cannot cast it on those who need it, especially since wardens offer relatively little compared to many other healers.
  4. ARCHIVED-Sinaya Guest

    I completely agree with this wishlist, but would also like to add that "Shatter Infections" needs to be visited again. It doesn't seem to be working properly.
  5. ARCHIVED-Orpheus666 Guest

    Rosvita@Runnyeye wrote:
    I agree with most of it, but the fact that you can't get into a raid is just wrong. every guild i've ever raided with takes a warden and a fury everywhere they go.
  6. ARCHIVED-tendo2 Guest

    Good points all around.
    And while I can say most if not all raid forces try to keep a warden and fury on the roster they aren't always considered necessary. Druids are still considered a 3rd order healer. I know I keep a spot on our raids because I'm nearly almost the total package. I'm capable of mixing high dps and consistant heals and cures. But my role is somewhat fuzzy. While I can solo heal a group on raid most of the time they feel better of with an inquisitor because they can do the same job and contribute more to the group. As a warden I'm really only considered needed for fights like Mikill (Naturewalk root immunity) or some of the Drunder mobs that have frequent Deathtouchs (quicker recasting Multiple Deathsaves and on command Stoneskins). To a lesser extent the benefits of our elemental wards or just for learning new encounters. But in reality most of the time my spot in raid is better filled with an Inquis or a true DPS since I can't seem to compete with either of them when raw heals isn't necessary.

    Defensive Healers in general are hurting this xpac. Mainly because alot of fighter classes appear OP. Druids and Templars are loseing spots to Inquisitors and even in some degrees Defilers are losing favor to Mystics. Mostly due to the buffs they provide the group/raid but also because of easing of severity. There are HM named encounters we can kill with 5 healers. Although we have never tried I think there is some we could even do with 4 healers if we dared try. If it weren't for Curse cures we could almost run with 5 healers all the time and swapping in a 6th as needed.

    In short IMO the game is getting too dumb downed for defensive healers to be necessary.
    I hate to admit it but a nerf may be in order at some point. All archetypes are getting too good at what they do.
    SoE has had a habit of over doing an implemented change when they introduce it to level the playing field or whatever. I thought they were overboard with introducing Crit Mit in TSO.
    In SF Stats were dumbed down to only requireing an arechetype specific which altered alot of the Gearing mismatching to tweak yourself to where you wanted to be and forced a little conformity. As a warden it was a mixed blessing it was far easier for us to gear wis but we were getting weened off Haste and DPS gear at the same time and just less choices for gear in general. they started flooding us with lovely Potency and Crit Bonus Gear so for the most part we were indifferent about the change. They were also a bit excessive on effects (like on summoners) thru SF to compensate other balance issues.
    DoV they opened the floodgates and redone alot of old gear to the current system Crit chance requirements are triple (yes 300% is necessary at some point) what was expected in any previous xpac similtaneously Crit Mitigation is equally propelled to double what needed in SF. don't get me started on how much more Potency and Crit bonus and Multi Attack we are capable of either. Again its this huge overboard approaches that really is messing up the game. I can't fathom what sort of numbers we'll be capable of by next major expac/level increase? 100+% spell double attacks, 500+% potency, 100+% flurry or 5k+ ability mods 600 Crit Chance or 500 Crit Mit. At some point you gotta stop and think where are we heading with all this.
  7. ARCHIVED-flay_wind Guest

    My main is a warden. And here's my PoI.
    Well, i'm not much of a raider as i casually raid as a guest raider with one of casual guilds and i had quite a lot of rotations in groups. I healed with inq in MT group, i healed with templar or defiler in OT group, i solohealed mages' group. And all the time i healed in raid the group i was in had the least deaths and usually died last. Yes even mages which i solohealed. I heal in my own full healspec, whole point of which is to keep group alive. Maybe i can't dps in my healspec at all, but i'm a healer not a dps class.
    And wardens are almost perfect for healing mages group in raid. Shell, group/single DI, and cyclone + myth stoneskin which you can cast while running and on any raid friend. You can stick bat+instinct on troub, and give ~1670 hp to 2 most squishy mages or 1 to yourself and 1 to squishy mage. There go all your buffs and evebody is more or less happy.
    All in all i think wardens are fine as they are. Maybe not for MT group, maybe not for group with melee dps. But mages group is their niche atm.
  8. ARCHIVED-joyhinia Guest

    Seriously mage group? The best healers for the mage group are inquis and furies.
    I'm not saying that wardens can't heal they can but the changes I am suggesting are to improve the class. Wardens are ideal for the offtank group with a mystic or a scout group but the fact is why would you use a warden when a inquis can do the same job and add alot of utility too?
  9. ARCHIVED-RogueSpideyChick Guest

    Rosvita@Runnyeye wrote:
    exactly! furies r the caster buffers, not wardens, get out of my group warden kkthx.
  10. ARCHIVED-bluedego Guest

    10% group reuse on fanaticism alone .. is way better then anything a warden can do..
    don't even get me started on fanatical devotion.
    I used this argument that.. an inquis can cancel all their buffs.. turn on auto attack and be more useful then my warden lol.
    about the only skill needed to play an inquis is to remember which group cure to use for which ae... (argue that all you like)
    /back to begging to main swap to an inquis so i can feel useful.

    wardens have some very strong abilities... shell.. sandstorm with the red adorn is amazing.
    heh.. i get such a kick out of tanking HM mobs after a memblur to me and i cyclone myself.. and peps are like? what??
    Wardens are fun.. but you have to admit it.. were obsolete, knockup aes with dot ticks, stifles, interupts,1 shots.. i can go on..
    Yes if you have skill .. sure.. you can manage it, and i do all the time. But, an inquis can always do it better.
  11. ARCHIVED-Lossewen Guest

    Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:
    I have to disagree. Just because Inqs are FOTM right now... I'd rather take a solid warden over a crappy inq just because of their class.
  12. ARCHIVED-Ayaka Guest

    Keep your optimism a little longer, as Wardens are the best healers in drunder hardmode content currently, in my opinion. Two of our inquisitors have fully geared warden alts just to switch to for a lot of drunder fights. Also, in the MT group I outheal the MT shaman.
    Why? Because a lot of major drunder effects are about massive ticking damage at the moment, and this damage is not wardable nor does it use reactives. Druids are owning. TS/Nature Walk/Countless Death saves and stoneskins are irreplaceable at the moment.
    Wardens have amazing potential, but it's also up to the player to understand their abilities and use them to benefit their group both DPS wise and HPS wise.
  13. ARCHIVED-Stobo DarkSky Guest

    I keep seeing so many level 89 to 92 Bucklers that have pretty good stats with one exception - very few of them have more than 500-511 protection, and almost none of them have block chance as a stat. I will continue to send in Bug reports.

    Since there are so many AA choices to upgrade the various forms of ROOT, Pls remove the 'does not affect Epics'. It seems all the mobs I need to control are far higher the My 90 Warden is. The Warden class is SUPPOSED to be the Keeper of the Forest, so being able to use the Root option in groups/raids anywhere would assure a spot for us.

    Lots of mobs I'm running into have murderous Knockbacks, and I cannot reply in kind. Pls return the Rooted portion to Sandstorm.

    Pls make the Cure Curse instacast Groupwide/Raidwide with a recast of 10 seconds or less. Lots of the higher mobs curse constantly. I've heard from other healing classes that in their opinion, the Warden Cure Curse as it stands now is the best of the healers; If this is true, then this game is in a sorry state indeed. Far too many mobs put a power curse that kills in 3 seconds or less. I can't count the times I've died waiting for the Cure Curse to Cast and Proc.

    Pls remove the STR, AGI, and INT increase part of the Warden Tree. Why do we have to waste points on stats we no longer use just to get to the better options?

    I remember the days of when AGI mattered most to a Warden.
  14. ARCHIVED-Orpheus666 Guest

    Stobo DarkSky wrote:
    The defensive type healers: Mystic, Templars, and Wardens all get a nice Cure Curse bonus via aa's while Offensive type healers don't, most didn't even get a boost to our cures at all til the past couple expansions. Cure Curse as it stands is done as priority depending on situations, if you have 2 healers in your group when you're doing general heroic, one cures the tank and the other cures the other healer if multiple curses are happening and then wait for it to cycle again. Adapt and survive or don't and ... well you know what happens.
  15. ARCHIVED-NolaDragon Guest

    Stobo DarkSky wrote:
  16. ARCHIVED-Arielle Nightshade Guest

    NolaDragon wrote:
  17. ARCHIVED-NolaDragon Guest

    Arielle Nightshade wrote:
    I just thought of 1 positive effect of the root ... it kept us in place when we were under the effects of fear.
  18. ARCHIVED-Oakum Guest

    Aneova@Kithicor wrote:
    One thing about wardens and the defensive/offensive healers. I see this a lot from wardens that did not play the game from the start. Let me break it down again. When it comes to healing, all priest are supposed to heal relatively equal. Of course the landing order and group damage type and amount will never let a parser show the true ability of a priest subclass to put out healing. Here is the breakdown of the true dualities of the priest classes and subclasses.
    Clerics are healer/buffers. Temps have more defensive buffs then inquisitors who buff damage abilities of their group.
    Shaman are healers/debuffers. One debuffs the mobs ability to do damage, one debuffs the mobs defensive skills.
    Druids are healers/dpsers. Furys are aoe spell damage, wardens are more single target melee. No cleric or shaman should be able to outdps a druid, period. That is why druids wear leather, they are nature priest who give up more protective armor in order for the power to do more dps.
    Of course SOE screwed this up when they upped the dps of clerics and shaman so that they would be more fun to solo. They failed to up druid dps by the same amount though when they did that.
    Yes, temps, defilers, and wardens are more defensive in that their heal spells and for temps and defilers, secondary spells, can help a tank group survive better then their counterparts but that is not their primary secondary side, its dps like buffs and debuffs are a clerics or shamans. Look at the basic quick casting non heal spells that a priest has by level 50 and see what they do between the healer classes and subclasses.
    Sorry but when I see people say that wardens are "defensive" healers it tells me that they are either want to be temps or defilers, don't know what the class is supposed to be because they havent played it from the beginning, they are leaving it out because they gave up on the SOE ever fixing wardens.
    I do understand the frustration with wardens who want to raid though. Since LU-13 when the classes were last revamped in an attempt to make them conform to their rolls, wardens have been through the same song and dance when it comes to raids.
    Good at start of new content when more healers are needed due to lack of gear by mt and or raid, then they eventualy get replaced by a dps or utility class unless for certain content designed for more healers is being done by the raid or the cleric, shaman, or fury doesn't show up on time for raid. Fury's don't have it quite so bad since they are aoe damage themselves and make good mage group healers.
    Wardens have been asking for something to make them useful to raids since the LU 13 revamp that was "druidish" and not clerical or shamanistic but haven't got anything yet obviously since they are still the first healer sat out of a raid when all subclass healers are available. Maybe the answer is to make them do close to the damage of a dps scout without the other scout debuffing abilities in offensive stance so that when that they are useful to a raid even if the only healing they have to do is an occasional group heal.
    The combination of high dps(without the scout debuff abilities) and an emergancy healer might make raid leaders want to keep wardens in the raid instead of sitting them out for another scout or mage dps since debuffs will already be maxed on a mob without the additional debuffs that the extra scout or mage brings.
    Dual wielding of slashing weapons and/or using two handed slashing weapons like how shaman can use two handed piercing weapons would be nice way to go if they actually went the dps route to make wardens more useful in raids.
    They would be more fun and options for wardems even if they didnt fix the wardens to give them a reason to be in a raid all the time.

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