Warden Bugs/Issues updated 07/15/08

Discussion in 'Warden' started by ARCHIVED-Sorano, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Sorano Guest

    Since Aeralik has pointed out that some classes have not updated their bugs/issues thread in a very long time, I am attempting to bring the warden one up to date, so we can get some much needed attention.

    Bugs
    Tranquility Line
    The heal on Tranquility is being treated like a HoT, and all +heal mods are only applied to the first heal. This needs to be fixed as +heal should apply to all the heal triggers.
    Warden Cure AA end line ability
    Shatter Infection does not trigger as stated. It should trigger a cure all once any group member drop below 50% health, but in its current state it does nothing.
    The entire Warden cure AA line needs to be reworked. I recommend making the Shatter Infection end line ability change the Tranquility line into a group wide spell. I also suggest that any cure bonuses apply to Tranquility as well as our single target cures.
    Faery Ally
    The Faery currently gets stuck on attempting to heal dead people. This is particularly annoying during raids.
    Another thing I have noticed is that the Faery will waste time trying to move to the person with the lowest hps, cutting down the amount of healing it does. I suggest that the Faery heal becomes zonewide, so the Faery does not actually have to move about.
    Mythical weapon
    The stoneskin clicky buff expires after 3 hits. It should last 12 seconds. The stoneskin effect drops once the Infuriating Thorns damage shield procs 3x.
    Clicky buff cannot be cast on the warden themselves
    Cast time on Clicky needs to be 1 second or insta cast as it is a save that you use in an emergency, making the current cast time too long

    AE Root agility debuff
    Since the agility debuff is on our AE root line, we cannot use this ability on epic mobs. Please allow wardens to cast the root on epic mobs and just allow the debuff portion to apply.
    Spore heal proc line
    The warden 2 set VP bonus increases the proc chance on our Spores heal line. The problem is we currently have an AA line which also does this, and Spores proc chance is capped at 16%. The VP 2 set bonus is currently wasted as we cannot go over the max proc rate. Suggest that the VP set bonus be changed to increasing the heal amount on Spores instead.
    Healing GroveThe tree dies from AEs and is therefore very limited in application. Please make the tree AE immune. The size of the tree is also a problem in a raid setting. Please give wardens the option to reduce it to shrub size, even if it is via a fun spell of some sort. The tree heal should also be made raidwide.
    Tunare's Watch
    The spell somehow missed a T8 upgrade. Please allow it to scale with level like our emergency heals if there are no upgrades intended for it.
    Nature's Renewal
    The second deathsave trigger does not appear to be healing for the correct amount, and is not taking +heal into account. Furthermore there is some indication that it is actually healing for below the minimum non modified value of the spell on the second death save trigger.
    Nature's Pack
    The wolf pack should be treated as a dot and not a dumbfire. Having the wolves die instantly on AE, or on a mobs damage shield is just not worth the power cost of casting this spell during a raid.
    End game viability
    The main problem wardens face is a lack of end game raid viability due to buff issues. Please refer to this thread for a more detailed discussion as to why this is so. http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=421872
    Suggestions for buff fixes:
    Sandstorm line: Lack of usefulness on raids due to defence being capped/diminishing returns and the secondary kb/stun not being applicable to epic mobs.Suggestions for a fix are to change the buff to +parry/block, which is uncontested avoidance and will always be useful in a raid setting.
    Thorns/Damage shield. The damage provided by thorns is minimal and only applies to one mob. Suggest that this buff be changed to add a hate/dps modifier. Increase haste of target by 20. Hate gain by 10. Another option is to have thorns reflect damage based on a fixed percentage of what the mob is attacking for. Something like 10% of any melee hit is reflected back on the mob.
    Armour of the seasons. Buffing a measly 300 to all resists is hardly useful given diminishing returns. Compare the secondary effect of the warden mit buff to defilers who get a 600hp regenerating magical ward, or templars who get +groupwide hps, and it certainly does not stack up. Suggest that this changes to increases the effect of worn armour by 10% for the entire group.
    Aspect of the Hawk Wis/power once again has limited usefulness in end game raiding, given that power pool size and resists mean very little. Suggest this changes to a wis/str/power buff, which at least gives melee wardens some better suited buffs.
    Instinct. Without the VP set bonus, this buff has very little application, due to +skills being subject to diminishing returns, and orange con epic mobs ignoring player skill stats. The VP set bonus is definitely a start to improving this buff, but it is still limited in that the warden can only apply it to one person. Suggest making this buff a conc slot buff, so the warden can choose to buff multiple people.

    VP set discussion
    2 set bonus is currently not useful due to the proc cap on spores (see above)
    4 set Good
    6 set Good
    The one thing wardens request is for the +heal on the pants being moved to the BP, and the BP effect moved to the legs. The reason being is that most wardens would prefer to equip the Abomination Leggings from Leviathan in the leg slot, which means we then give up the extra healing the set legs provide. Moving the healing bonus to the BP gives wardens more flexibility, as we can then equip a pure healing set, or a dps set.
  2. ARCHIVED-Arielle Nightshade Guest

    -- Edit: Elyssa is keeping a running tally of salient issues suggested in the rest of this thread in the post above...(FYI) ---
    Awesome post, Elyssa, thank you. Here are a couple of my thoughts:
    If Nature's Walk is spec'd and the buff is applied, no cure should ever remove a 'root' effect. Those should just be ignored and should never 'land' as a DoT on any group member, correct? (ie, if I have it spec'd and applied I don't want to spend a moment of time 'curing' something that isn't there.)
    T8 Nature's Pack (at least in adept 3) die as easily as the tree to AoE with mobs over about level 80. Please fix them to be more durable since they are the visual manifestation of a DoT, not a pet. An AoE shouldn't destroy them, a cure possibly might?
    The reuse timer on Nature's Renewal is not accurate if spec'd with max Reformation line AA's, it's not reduced. (Tunare's Watch, however, seems to work as promised)
    There is nowhere (except the promise of the Reformation AA) that states that 2 triggers of either death intervention will happen, and I am not convinced that those 2 promised triggers consistently happen. (yeah, yeah, no empirical data...just 'seems like' (which is over half your player base, btw ::grin:: ) )
    Cures are (as stated above) a problem. AAs support the old cure setup (4 cure 'types', and have not changed in any way to reflect the new single 'cure all' update. Since our Aa's offer an resist to the type of damage cured, it seems backwards to be able to apply the resist AFTER the damage has occurred. True, it's preventive of the next possible dot that might land - but it also seems that this resistance isn't working for that next DoT, either.
    Agree - I've never seen Shatter Infections actually work, and I do use it often to see what situational thing I might be missing, or if it truly doesn't work.
    I second Elyssa's request to either let Tunare's Watch scale like our emergency heals (/sigh...there goes a hard-won M1 of it), or an update to the ability.
    Also Seconding Elyssa's request to allow the debuff portion of our roots to be used on epic mobs.
    I absolutely support the "end game viability" section in the above post. Please give us some raid usefulness, since at this stage of the game's development and content, it's an important activity to many players.
    No one wants anyone to lose anything - we'd just like to be brought up to par with the raid usefulness of other healers. If you think that the usefulness is there and nothing needs to be added or changed, I'd like to point out that min/maxing raid leaders don't agree - and they often see things in player classes that developers either didn't notice or didnt' think of.
    We need to bring more to the table than minorly useful group buffs, argueably useful single target buffs and heals that are counted 'last' by game mechanics.
  3. ARCHIVED-eclipse25 Guest

    This really needs a sticky!!!
  4. ARCHIVED-Dragonrealms Guest

    The DI double trigger is reflected in the effects list. If you look at it, the spell will say:

    When target dies this spell will cast Nature's Touch on target. Lasts for 24.0 seconds.

    When target dies this spell will cast Nature's Touch on target. Lasts for 24.0 seconds
    <Nature's Touch heal info>
    Increases wis by xx
    Grants a total of 1 trigger of the spell

    Increases wis by xx
    <heal info again>
    Grants a total of 1 trigger of the spell

    Just tested it in-game and yes it does trigger twice, but I DID find another problem with it. The +30% heal increase only applies to the first trigger; the second trigger reverts back to the spell's original value =/
    (1215520821)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:21 2008] You draw upon nature's powers of rebirth and renewal.
    (1215520822)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:22 2008] a frontier bighorn tries to crush YOU, but YOU block.
    (1215520824)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:24 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 594 crushing damage.
    (1215520826)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:26 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 479 crushing damage.
    (1215520826)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:26 2008] You lose consciousness!
    (1215520827)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:27 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 481 crushing damage.
    (1215520827)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:27 2008] You regain consciousness!
    (1215520827)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:27 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 1138 hit points. <Trigger #1; heals for what it should be healing for
    (1215520827)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:27 2008] You regain consciousness!
    (1215520827)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:27 2008] Your flourishing health returns to normal.
    (1215520829)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:29 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 594 crushing damage.
    (1215520830)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:30 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 284 hit points.
    (1215520831)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:31 2008] a frontier bighorn tries to crush YOU, but misses.
    (1215520832)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:32 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 284 hit points.
    (1215520833)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:33 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 640 crushing damage.
    (1215520834)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:34 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 284 hit points.
    (1215520834)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:34 2008] a frontier bighorn tries to crush YOU, but misses.
    (1215520836)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:36 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 284 hit points.
    (1215520836)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:36 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 692 crushing damage.
    (1215520837)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:37 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 536 crushing damage.
    (1215520837)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:37 2008] You regain consciousness!
    (1215520837)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:37 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 640 hit points. <Trigger #2; heals for the spell's original value
    (1215520839)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:39 2008] a frontier bighorn hits YOU for 530 crushing damage.
    (1215520839)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:39 2008] You lose consciousness!
    (1215520839)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:39 2008] You regain consciousness!
    (1215520839)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:39 2008] YOUR Nature's Touch heals YOU for 160 hit points.
    (1215520841)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:41 2008] a frontier bighorn's Wild Swing hits YOU for 524 crushing damage.
    (1215520841)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:41 2008] Your skin returns to normal.
    (1215520841)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:41 2008] The spirit of the wolf leaves you.
    (1215520841)[Tue Jul 08 07:40:41 2008] a frontier bighorn has killed you.
  5. ARCHIVED-Dragonrealms Guest

    Actually looking at my heal numbers there, the spell's healing for LESS than its original value because that's a m1 spell so the original should be in the 800s, not the 600s. So I have no clue what's going on with it but something's definately messed up imo.
  6. ARCHIVED-Oakum Guest

    Nice post. One thing added is that our ability to do damage and the equipment to support the CA line is too far below the other druid. Some druids may not care but as one that plays all 3 play styles, I should be able do to a druids damage and not be out damaged in a group or solo by any other healer class then a fury (when not much healing is required). Even with using our fast small nukes we do subpar damage if int specced.
    That is not a big issue to wardens that only raid/nuke and dont want to do anything else but for the rest of the wardens it is probably more important to contibute something worthwhile to their group when the group is mowing down trash and not much if any healing is required, especially if their are 2 healers in the group and the tank is well geared.
  7. ARCHIVED-Dragonrealms Guest

    I was actually just thinking about the itemization issue today at work (cuz pulling weeds is SOO brain-intensive =x). I came up with an interesting idea for a fix to it; what if we had an AA (or even add it onto an existing AA) that made it so that any int/spell damage/spell crit on gear that we equipped was converted into its melee counterpart? Even go further and make that AA be a toggle buff so that if you NEED to nuke for whatever reason, you're not stuck with baseline damage. Seems like an easier fix than making druid gear for both specs.
  8. ARCHIVED-Arielle Nightshade Guest

    Dragonrealms wrote:
    Thanks for checking it out Ryala - all I know is: It's not working the way the AA's say it should...it 'seemed like' the second trigger wasn't working, but with your data, the reality is: yes, it's triggering, but for not as much as it should. I'll buy that :) All I know is: it is not working as advertised, and I have a lot of AA into that line.
  9. ARCHIVED-Sorano Guest

    Thanks for the feedback guys. Have modified the post to incorporate Ryala's data on the seond death save trigger and Arielle's suggestion on the wolf pack.
  10. ARCHIVED-Tuple Guest

    Thanks for taking this on Elyssa. I'm not sure how much I have to add, but here I go.

    I need to go back and pull out my numbers, but it appears that several of our spells are not getting the full benefit of +heals at least if the numbers in the "knowledge" book are refelecting what's actually getting healed (which is hard to tell in a controlled experiment especially with any meaningful crit rate). When I get home tonight I'll dig up my notes and post them. Might be happening to other classes as well, but I only have the char/gear to speak for us.

    As for Tranquility, while I like the idea behind what they did, I personally don't find it terribly useful in a raid setting. Solo'ers and Group Healers might find it more useful, but in a raid setting healers have "whack-a-cure" beat into them at an early age. The amount of time I can get Tranquility off prior to someone else curing is rare unless everyone is frantically healing to patch up wards or reactives. For the same reason the every 15 seconds is nice, but doesn't do as much in my situation. Don't get me wrong, I always have it up on the MT, you play every card in the deck, but with the cure all change I feel it has lost a bit of usefullness.

    If AA's were revaluated I'd much rather see it shorten the casting time so we can get it off as fast as a standard cure. But that's just me. Regardless, the entire Cure Line needs to be reevaluated in my humble opinion.
  11. ARCHIVED-Dragonrealms Guest

    Tuple wrote:
    This! I honestly don't see the point of having tranquility's recast time reduced by any less than 30s and even then.. meh. The effect lasts as long as the duration so really there's no reason to give it a lesser recast imo. Would be much better to have its cast time reduced to make it more valuable as an actual cure. And the cure tree REALLY needs redoing.. even if the tranquility AA was changed for reduced cast time, I still don't think I'd get it just because the only access to it is through the cures and those AAs just aren't worth the investment at all.
  12. ARCHIVED-Tuple Guest

    Bah, looks like my file got deleted in a fit of overzealous cleaning. I'll start reconstructing, but if I remember correctly some of our single targets were fine, none of our group targets were not (and that's taking into account the divide by 3 not 2 rule) and our "special" heals (Tranquility, DI, Hierophantic Prov, Emergency Heals) were all over the board.
  13. ARCHIVED-Meirril Guest

    Dragonrealms wrote:
    Tuple said cast time. Not recast. I agree with Tuple. Tranquility's long cast time means I can't get the full benifit from this spell if I'm in a group with another healer. So far the only thing its been good for is casting it on me when I know we're fighting mobs that group stiffle.
  14. ARCHIVED-Dragonrealms Guest

    yes he said cast time.. and I agree that cast time reduction is what's needed. What I was saying is that they need to change the current AA that reduces the REcast time and make it reduce cast time instead.
  15. ARCHIVED-Sorano Guest

    Tranquility/Purity is a strange one. I think they originally made it a 1.5 second cast due to it removing 4 effects at once, but now that all priests can do that, it should drop to a 1 second cast time.
    There is also another problem with the Tranquility line. You cast it and then cannot cast it again for 1 min (45 secs if AA specced). Of course it is then going to tick every 15 seconds during that minute, but since detrimentals randomly hit, you cannot guarantee that the cure is going to tick at exactly the right time to be effective. In fact it's a 1 in 15 chance that it will, which is rather tiny. The majority of the time it is just wasted as you cannot afford to wait for it to cure. I have even tested it out on the drakes in VP. I put it on myself and stood in range to get hit with the trauma stun. Purity rarely ticked in time to clear the trauma before it dropped off on its own.
    I believe the main issue is that a 15 second interval is just too long. I think it needs to be a 10 second window. That is still going to mean that there is only a 1 in 10 chance that it is going to tick at the right time, but I think it will improve the spell from its current state.
    I have also seen the changes to the Inquisitor mythical clicky. They get group wide Tranquility (cure+heal) that they can cast every 15 seconds. Whenever they choose to.
  16. ARCHIVED-gatrm Guest

    Just change tranquillity so that it has 4 ticks. Anytime an effect is on the target, within the 1 minute duration, as long as ticks are available, it will proc, removing the effect(s) and healing. Then you could keep the AAs in tranquillity as they are- the reuse would actually be useful, and it wouldn't matter as much if other healers cure before you finish casting...tranquillity will be up and it's guaranteed to proc next time the target gets an effect on them.
  17. ARCHIVED-Oakum Guest

    If making the Faerie not target dead group/raid members is too hard to fix, they could just make it give a 30% health and power rez.
    EDIT:
    Since its been stickied, its obvious that a Forum mod seen the thread, too bad we will never know if a dev who can fix our problems has actually seen it like the other classes got responses from.
  18. ARCHIVED-Sorano Guest

    How hard is it to make sure that negative hitpoints or hp values less than 0 are ignored by the Faery. Yes that will mean that people on unconsious health are not healed, but I will take that anyday over the useless camping of dead toons.
  19. ARCHIVED-tendo2 Guest

    I sort of reminesce about the old Nature's walk AA ability. I think the ol' Knockback protection can be far more useful than root immunity. Even if it only reduces the KB distance a significant percentage but, then why can't it do it both. My understanding at the time this was changed was because of PVP balance issues. Imagine the drakes in VP as an example no crazy long pulls or booting from the bridge the warden's group can stand toe to toe and stick to that mob while other groups have to line up and hope they don't get knocked in a bad direction.
    Just a thought. It's a great list of issues though. I tend to feel that way with alot of them (especially the messed up AA abilities we seem to have atm)
    I've often wondered as well did Tort shell suffer some serious typo when it was created when you look at other AE immunity abilities they have superior effect range and don't sacrifice the ability to cast while in effect.
  20. ARCHIVED-Oakum Guest

    tendo2 wrote:
    They were probably worried about overpowering fury's and the effects on wardens were just collateral damage and wardens are expendable anyway, or at least that is what it seems like sometimes a lot of the time, lol.