Vanguard Saga of Heroes - to be or not to be?

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Sturmlocke, Aug 7, 2022.

  1. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    Looky what came by mail today :)

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    Vanguard collectors edition WIP. Working on a good deal.
    Jaden likes this.
  2. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.



    Nathan has done it again, SWG ftw!

    Just wanted to note that we had someone in our chat yesterday, who claims to have been part of the SWG team back in the old days. According to this person, his team misses SWG a lot. Pretty much all of us agree though, SWG could do great on Steam, just like Raph said, but only after fixing, tweaking a few things and giving it a facelift or upgrade in certain aspects.

    Also, seems like Smed is cooking something over at Amazon and it's Scifi: https://mein--mmo-de.translate.goog..._sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

    SWG2 anyone? :D
    Jaden and Texan like this.
  3. Aethos Well-Known Member

    I'd show support for a resurrected Vanguard. It was one of my favorite games after they fixed it up. After they fixed it up, honestly, my only criticism of the game was the character creator needed expansion (basically, it wasn't...good enough? or maybe it was that the models themselves were not good looking enough. Probably both honestly). Also, to a lesser degree, it needed some kind of appearance slots. I wanted to be a robe-wearing monk but that was generally not a thing, and monks kind of looked like unarmed samurai.
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  4. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    For sure, with you on this one. Imagine if they could reintroduce Vanguard to our existing All Access membership plan. Ppl could happily jump between their favorite games like they used to in the old days. Embers Adrift has managed to gather the attention of 1k+ players, SWG Legends and Emu are far above that even, and seeing how at least one or two hundred were willing to try the Vanguard Emu = Vanguard should at least be able to attract 1k players and much more if they put some work into it (some elements of the graphics could use a bit of work though, like the water shaders for example, but the models could also use a small facelift). Been wanting to give the Vanguard Emu a go ever since we started this discussion, but it continues to crash on my end.

    Everyone is waiting for Pantheon, but ironically, we already have our own version of Pantheon in the form of Vanguard. Sure, it might be a bit dusty here and there, but I still feel that it being a DirectX9 game means there is still lots of untapped potential there for bigger upgrades. Same goes for EQ2 ofc. Said this in a different thread; I really like Funcom's approach to the engine thing. Imagine EQ1, 2, Vanguard and maybe even DCUO all running on Daybreaks own in house engine Forgelight, which Everquest Next was going to use and which is actively used in Planetside 2. If branding is an issue, rename Vanguard to Everquest Saga of Heroes :D

    Cheers
    Jaden, Aethos and Michaile like this.
  5. Dude Well-Known Member

    I'm sure there are a handful of people out there who think it's still going to launch, but I haven't heard any of them talk seriously about it since 2019.
  6. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    Nathan Napalm's community is pretty big and last thing I checked there were a bunch of peeps waiting for it, but yeah, it has been in dev for so long that lots of folks have lost hope. Personally I'm open to new stuff, but I would also love to see an upgraded Vanguard rise from the ashes and enter the arena. A bit of competition could set things on fire - would be epic. Now that I think of it though, Pantheon team actually released an interesting video a few weeks ago, talking about a haunted Resident Evil like mansion and an underwater portion of the game, but it's still very bare bones by comparison. It does look promising though, love EQ2's Estate of Unrest and can already imagine something bigger and prettier with the tech we have today. Same goes for an underwater world, one that I would love to see in EQ2 as well (in mah sig baby). Seeing that actually makes me appreciate EQ2 even more considering how we already have lots of stuff like that in our world:





    One thing that continues to blow me away is how beautiful the sky is in Vanguard even when compared to newer titles like Embers Adrift or Pantheon. A few upgrades here and there and Vanguard would be able to shine super bright once again. It's such a shame to throw all of that away... all those man years of hard work and dedication.

    Edit: Speaking of Pantheon, 60-70 peeps watching their live stream rn:

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  7. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.


    Watching this rn, live stream over 100 ppl watching rn. After watching Cohh stream Pantheon the other day, I can't stop seeing a revamped Vanguard rise from the ashes in my mind. Imagine if you'd be able to release Vanguard SoH Remastered within a six month timeframe. I can already see myself just sitting there for hours, fishing a bit and letting the dynamic open world weather rain down on me. Hmmhmmmmm...
  8. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    This tribute is a small token of appreciation to everyone involved in the creation of this wonderful scifi mmo world, and that includes yourself, Smed, Raph, Mr. Vogel and many more. You guys had a tremendous vision back then, way ahead of its time, and I can only imagine how SWG could look and play today if it had successfully continued further development and upgrade after upgrade. Some of us around here understood your vision, and that vision was a great one. The same goes for Vanguard ofc, and the very same thing applies to the Everquest and DC franchise imo. Tbh, I actually have a decent wishlist of features that I could see both SWG and Vanguard getting if they were still in active development, and I'll share that with ya'll one of these days when time allows it.

    Interesting read: https://www.raphkoster.com/tag/star-wars-galaxies/

    Cheers to you guys @ttobey. I hope you enjoy this small callback and reminder to the days of high adventure:

    Part 1 of 3. Part 2 and 3 WIP.

    Building bigger and better worlds filled with small and big details, filled with life of all kind, and controlled by the engineers and players in this community. Back then not even the stars were the limit, because you actually realised space travel and atmospheric flight in this mmo galaxy - among many other things.
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  9. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.


    Did EA just lose their exclusive licensing deal for Star Wars? Hm, if so, interesting turn of events that is. What now happens? Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future. Feasible venture and effort you might not see in Swg remastered, hmm, hmm, numbers matter not. Smaller in number are we, but larger in mind. Your path you must decide now. *Yoda voice*
    Breanna likes this.
  10. Ixian Active Member

    EA hasn't had the exclusive license in a long time -- the subdivision of Ubisoft that worked on The Division and The Division 2 is making a Star Wars game.
    Sturmlocke likes this.
  11. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.


    Oh wow, that's interesting! If I am not mistaken, big if, Ubisoft is making another SW singleplayer game, right? What does all of this mean for the SW mmo license, any info on that by any chance? I found myself playing Star Wars Battlefront 2 the other day, the visuals are incredible to say the least. I can only imagine how jaw dropping SWG 1.5 would look and feel with a well done facelift / upgrade of any kind. I can already see myself fishing a bit on the oceanside of Naboo with Battlefront 2 visuals... relaxing to the beautiful sunset and sunrise as time goes by slowly and one fish after the other finds its way onto my hook (with a little worm attached to it). Hmmmm...
  12. gaeca Member

    I played SWG from launch,my first MMO it was even at its worst a wonderful game,then they just tried to fix it as we know and well it wasnt the same was it if we are honest with ourselves..but what a game it was to begin with.
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  13. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.


    Yeah, totally feel that mate, especially the last part. Swg felt / feels like a real breathing Star Wars world, unlike Swtor, the latter which feels like a Hollywood film set on rails. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely enjoy the Battlefront series that EA has created, been playing them on and off the last few weeks (perfect for a quick adrenaline rush), but the new Swtor mmo just doesn't feel right to me.

    in-game realtime graphics, Battlefront 1 from 2015

    As much as I dislike Swtor, because I very much prefer Swg instead, I really like what EA did with Battlefront 1 and 2, and I love their beautiful looking Frostbite engine. It looks, sounds, plays, feels absolutely breathtaking, even after all these years. Now, pls take a look at the video above, let that sink in for a few minutes, and just for a brief moment in time imagine that is actually the what-if version of Endor in a remastered SWG project, looking just like what you see further above in Battlefront 1. Imagine how beautiful and breathtaking all of Swg's planets could look and feel being powered by those visuals and physics. @Daybreak / Darkpaw: Just wishful thinking here, but if you'd ever do this, I would literally pay up to 150 bucks upfront for a retail box of a remastered SWG 1.5 looking like this, plus I'd sub to your service three years in advance. Same goes for Vanguard remastered and Everquest 2.5 ofc.

    When you wish upon a star...
  14. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    First of all, happy new year!

    And to answer your question. This is why:

    Sunset Of Pain - A Nostalgic Song From The Past (live in approx 1h)


    And just in case you missed it:

    VGSOH | A Nostalgic Moment Of Peace | Limited Edition

    VGSOH | The Colors of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes | Qalia

    Remember | Tribute to EQ1, 2 and VGSOH

    There are ppl out there who cherrish the work that you, your past and current teammates and many others under your wing have done by working on these games. This is just a small token of appreciation. I don't expect anyone to respond or say anything to this, for obvious reasons ofc, but I hope it at least manages to touch your heart @Darkpaw and friends. I'm no wizard IRL ofc, but the wonders ya'll are able to produce resonates within me as if I were one of you. Please, enjoy, and don't forget - it's not too late to change course!

    Cheers!
  15. rutro Well-Known Member

    The only thing that I can think of that would be even possible, is if Blizzard bought out all other MMO companies and did a new game or Wow2 :) Money rules. This crap isn't cheap ...plus, it only distracts from making the current game better. It is like trashing earth, and looking to space so you can trash that also...
  16. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    Haha, good one mate! The day that hellish scenario of Blizzard buying out everything comes true, that will be the day I quit the genre for good. I haven't touched WoW in decades, and I never will again in this lifetime, and neither will my kids. Sure, these games aren't cheap, but if a emulator community like SWGL, or any other community driven game for that matter, can find the cash to keep the servers open via monthly player donations, then I'm sure a single official retail server can be done too. The last point of yours is actually a good point because I want to see EQ1/2/DCUO be treated well too, but then again, I also like having options. Guess that's one of the reasons why I'm on Linux then, having options is a good thing in my book. I've always seen vgsoh as a nice addition to the mix and a good way to add more value to the all access membership.

    Not sure about the space trashing thing tbh. I've seen things mate, things not from this world.
    Geroblue likes this.
  17. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    NCSoft and emulator server do the seemingly impossible: City of Heroes is officially back online! New content is already planned too. In other words, an unofficial rogue server becomes the new go-to server with an official greenlit license.

    -> https://massivelyop.com/2024/01/04/...heroes-server-license-to-the-homecoming-crew/

    -> https://massivelyop.com/2024/01/05/...-city-of-heroes-back-officially-at-long-last/

    -> https://massivelyop.com/2024/01/05/...-city-council-and-the-impending-content-drop/

    Hm, interesting turn of events indeed. Well, seems these things are possible after all.
    Jaden and Insulted like this.
  18. rutro Well-Known Member

    You seem like a cool dude, and all but what makes you think if one of the best MMO programmers/developers could not make it happen...that even Bill Gates could make it happen...(Asheron's Call)...the people that are not disabled and or not basement dwellers do not even have that kind of time to invest...anyway! It astounds me at the amount of time people spend playing these MMOs. What I think happened is the teams at EQ2 started catering to the raiders, and forgot about the rest of society. Something WOW probably did not do...Example, why make it so time consuming and or cost so much to do respectable tier 1 DPS? I would have to say that EQ2 lost half of its potential players by making it illogical for anyone to play tier 1 DPS. Not to mention the elitists, and parse *****, and making bards/brigs useless...:)
  19. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.


    Hey Rutro, just saw your message while I was listening to some Vanguard SoH and Shadowgate 64 music with the family. /leaving-reallife-server. I invite you to join me while we talk about these things:

    Shadowgate 64

    Ever noticed how similar some of the tracks in Vanguard are to Shadowgate 64? I love it, haha!

    Now to your questions, not sure I understand everything you're saying tbh, we might need to go back and forth a little.


    Thanks mate, I try! :)


    What do you mean by that question? Are you asking how Darkpaw could do Vanguard justice etc. after seeing how other big names have failed at this attempt? Is that the question?


    Oh, I fully agree that time is a factor to consider nowadays, I know this to be true myself. That said, it doesn't mean that you can't take things slowly or consume the more advanced type of content in short and controlled bursts. Sure, I won't be raiding for hours per night right now, but that isn't what I seek either. It's good to have that option though! Gaming is a hobby like everything else; it taps into your time and life energy for sure, so it's up to you to decide whether it is worth it or not. Every hobby is going to take its time, and gaming is no different. Take EQ2 for example, I'm still somewhere in VoV and RoR while a lot of folks around here have already consumed the newest expac. It doesn't bother me one bit. In fact, I look forward to all the content that is there for me in the future, thus I keep my subscription alive even when not playing. I did this many years with DCUO too: I literally had my sub running for over a year and didn't login to play because I deemed other things irl more important at the time, and I was due for a gaming break / breather anyway. The sub didn't hurt me financially, because it is priced fairly imo, so I just kept the sub running because I want to see these game worlds healthy and well, and I look forward to the new content when the time has come to venture these lands again. Just because I don't have the time or motivation right now doesn't mean that I won't have the time and motivation tomorrow btw. Thus, I would rather have a more complicated and slow progression type of approach that will take effort to fully master and consume versus blasting through everything in a very short amount of time for the sake of time. What I just said goes for the mmo-genre specifically, because this genre was never about blasting through things that quickly. If I want that type of gameplay, then I'll just go and play Battlefield, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament or anything else fast paced for that matter. There are games that deliver this fast and actionrich gameplay, and I enjoy these games as well every now and then, but full blown fantasy mmos are something else entirely. Life is already in fast forward in many ways, and it only gets faster the older I get it seems, so what I seek is relaxed adventuring when I enter these virtual worlds. I actually had this discussion with someone else the other day, who was in favor of using dungeon browsers and fast traveling. I am not. Personally I can live with these options being there, but I won't use them and I don't want to see the game be built around them. Right now I want to walk / ride / sail in games like EQ1 / 2 / Vanguard and go from place to place by foot / mount / boat and take in all of the beautiful and mystical surroundings: the ambience sounds, the nature, the wildlife, the players and npcs doing random things - and while at it also take in all the randomly generated weather effects. In Vanguard there is no zoning, no loading times between the lands - it just feels very organic to me. It gives me the sense of great freedom without boundaries when watching that beautiful sunset slowly go down in 4k resolution while sitting on a rock on very high terrain:

    [IMG]
    Just look at it! Would you look at it! Look at it!

    It never gets old in real life, and it doesn't get old in virtual game worlds either. I literally want to sail along the Nile with my friends and family and just take it all in! I don't mind flying ofc, it's one of my favorite ways to travel, but it has to be earned. Flying should be something that you get rewarded with after walking that extra mile - after mastering the journey. It's the icing on the cake - the Crème de la Crème in a sense. Work for it, even if it takes some time. Immersion is super important to me: Walking through the world of Vanguard and getting hit by that beautiful and random rainstorm just feels so fricking good! I hate it when these things are scripted and planned like in a Hollywood studio -> looking at you, Swtor. This is one of the reasons why I prefer the SWG experience too btw, it just felt so natural and close to real life with its realtime sunsets, weather and more. Small details like these matter, and you can trim them down in order to save time and effort, that's the cheap way, or you can fully embrace them and create a virtual world like no other! I have a relatively good sound system, and I can almost smell and feel the rain pouring down onto meh in games like Vanguard and SWG. It's beautiful!

    Right now my time is super limited for example, that means progressions is somewhat slow, yet I still find a little bit of time to play and do some Youtube on the side. Not very often, not as frequent as others, but it's there, because I want it to be there. A good game / hobby will make you find the time, if you really want to. Fun fact: My brother switched to home office for a while and he was literally gaming and doing Twitch on the side while he was working all at the same time. He was actually more productive at work and found the time for gaming on the side. Imagine that, haha!


    Honestly mate, I couldn't care less what WoW does nowadays. We're not WoW, and we will never be WoW. WoW in my eyes = McDonalds fast food and the games that we had and still have around here (EQ1/2, Vanguard, SWG, and even DCUO with its original vision) = that fine restaurant only known to the locals where it takes time to create and consume the meals, but it just tastes so good washing it down with a beautiful glass of finely riped wine! I know that I'm in the minority when saying this, don't care one bit, because that's just how I feel and have felt for many years now. I'm actually mindblown by how relevant WoW still is among us gamers to the point that ppl keep talking about it like it's the holy grail of mmo-gaming or something, because it isn't. Then again, a lot of ppl enjoy using Windows, and I'm more of a Linux and Mac guy myself.

    Not sure about the dps thing. Can you elaborate a bit further?

    I shall now return to the real world, but I leave you with one more beautiful soundtrack to listen to:

    More SG64

    Cheers!
    /leaves-the-chat

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  20. Sturmlocke Linux enthusiast playing EQ2 via Proton.

    To the powers that be - something to think about (not sure what nipples are worth nowadays but I'm sure someone might need or want some):

    When asked about Vanguard SOH, this is what Youtuber Nathan Napalm had to say about it.

    Link: https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxa2OgoMp0Yyv-dQUHVAThWnnF3bb6zRvS?si=7WW44JSJIFCQmt-r

    @07:06:20: "Q: if given the chance to sit down with Darkpaw, to convince them to give Vanguard another shot, would you take it if the price were you'd have to undergo operation and let them remove your nipples?" -> "A: Dude, that's nothing, who cares! I don't use these." as he elaborates further.

    Link: https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxi0_aIfeEV7O6-3K84GqxzQwqhjPdt4gK?si=DmPU89F_lY51j-hy

    @07:09:13: "I'll say this. I would like Vanguard to be fully playable the way that it was before they shut it down so bad, that I would give up eating ghost pepper chicken - for life - to get Vanguard SOH." ... "and I love ghost pepper chicken, I looove it, but not as much as I would love to play Vanguard whenever I want."

    Link: https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxx0Tx2J8tDxYSfkMpcIpSyRSNWYKTizVF?si=vHaleyIDo1iYI-nN

    @07:10:00: "I would secretly take pics of my wifes feet and sell them to Darkpaw to get VGSOH back online."

    He's also gone on record saying he'd stream Vanguard the entire week for ya'll.

    Context for the ppl not in the know: Ghost pepper chicken is some of his most favorite things to eat.


    The Sunset Of Pain - REMASTERED EDITION