[UPDATE] Kaladim Content Update Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by dreamweaver, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. Inmyprime Member

    I too would like to see Hunters. Honestly, just make sure EoF is good to go and release Hunters as soon as possible, this is something I would like to see. That would give a couple weeks to work on what needs to be done while we are busy on Hunters.

  2. Rosyposy Well-Known Member

    Yup. We have a guild house. Still have to run back and forth when leveling, so no, it's not sufficient.
    Breanna likes this.
  3. Xakanis Active Member

    Even if they did put in guild halls witch will probably never happen, they would not come out till ROK because that is when the original guild halls came out, so i don't know why that is even a discussion.
  4. Rosyposy Well-Known Member

    Correct. And they have stated there will be no guild halls. Just stating my opinion that I really miss them.
    Breanna likes this.
  5. Hydraulics Member

    How about some double loot while we wait for things to be implemented? At least we could gear up some alts while we wait.
    Schmetterling likes this.
  6. Schmetterling Well-Known Member

    hi Mingle and welcome :)

    We did get Guildhalls at the end of Stormhold , for a short time , before the server was doomed .

    be patient once we get Kunark you can do writ's in any house again , when Sages can make a temporary writ giver .
    And I hope there will be another mount we can loot in the next expansion ;) I know this will not be till we get that said expansion but just an idea to consider .
    And once we do get the hunter quest , can we get double coins , please .
    Breanna, Rosyposy and Cyrrena like this.
  7. Kittik Well-Known Member

    I would love to see guild halls, just don't allow the Broker to be in the guild hall.

    I almost can see no reason to have a guild right now, other than the guild bank. With guild halls, the shared storage bins for collectable, L&L, spells etc where wonderful. Same with crafting components.

    Guilds right now are just random people all with the same guild tag. No reason to be guilded right now.
  8. Hydraulics Member

    Can we drop the guild hall discussion? It was made quite clear they aren’t going to happen on TLE anymore. Let’s refocus on the delay. We have been burned by this before on FG. Promises of fixes and itemization changes after a delay to “get it right” and then we got nothing. The communication from dreamweaver is appreciated though.
  9. Reptoid Member

    I agree completely. They have had that stance on guild halls ever since the first timelocked server Stormhold. I will say I do appreciate them pushing it back some rather than releasing something unfinished. That way we don't get broken content like how we always received on Fallen Gate. I am hopeful they remain true to their word this time but I do have my doubts. Any communication is very much appreciated.
  10. Schmetterling Well-Known Member

    somebody already told Dreamweaver that they had the worst ever release of an expansion on the regular server .
    I would not put it that way but I agree that there were a lot of problems and some still persist.
    So take your time , as long as it's not a year .
    Cyrrena and Breanna like this.
  11. dreamweaver Developer

    Main post has been updated.
  12. Schmetterling Well-Known Member

    thanks Dreamweaver
    Cyrrena and Breanna like this.
  13. Waylond New Member

    Can someone explain what Hunters Quest is please? Sorry, just no clue what it is and would like to know why everyone is asking for it.
  14. Schmetterling Well-Known Member

    ok the hunter quests are special quests that only TLE servers get , you can do one a day , and earn hunter coins .
    For those Hunter coins you can buy top of class items , of witch you can only wear 2 things at a time .
    You talk to a npc in Lava Storm for the level 50 quests , he's up near the lava lake and the lava falls up the hill .
    For the level 60 quests you go to PoF to the Stinging Island go down the climable wall and head towards the mirror for the Citadel.
    The npc is on the left side right after you cross the bridge .
    For either level quest you have to go to 3 different places and kill a boss the hunter will give you the one he want's you to kill .
    You need 30 coins to buy one item , and you get 2 for each turned in quest.
    Dude, Rosyposy, Waylond and 1 other person like this.
  15. Waylond New Member

    Holy cow.... thank you very much for the breakdown. Didn't know that existed. Much appreciated.
    Cyrrena, Dude and Schmetterling like this.
  16. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the update.

    I guess the first place to start would be itemization, as that basically balances all of the content. I'm kinda confused as to the direction Kaladim itemization is going currently. The idea was to reduce blue stats, and somewhat fix the inadequate stat equivalents that were plaguing Fallen Gate; but it's fallen short.

    On Fallen Gate you had similar Crit and Potency on each item, but Crit wasn't on every item making some items completely useless; i'm glad this was fixed on this server. Spell skills/weapon skills we're also itemized as a "blue stat" making a lot of items useless. I'm glad these two fixes went in.

    The Primary stat on gear I think is fine as well on Kaladim. The curve on primary stat is very substantial and as a result it was making a lot of buffs that gave primary stat pretty minimal on Fallen Gate. I think that lowering primary stat and instead endorsing group layouts was a great idea. You can actually see a difference between running a fury to hit harder, or having more reuse/auto stats with an inquistior, unlike on Fallen Gate where everyone had so much primary stat buffs like lucidity, and forest spirit began to somewhat become mundane.

    The problem at hand is really just the stat equivalencies, which still lingers from Fallen Gate; also the idea of not having specific stats on specific slots. For example: we are currently offered 20 ability mod, or 3.3% reuse. There isn't a single player who would pick the ability mod over the reuse making any piece without having casting speed/reuse absolutely useless in my eyes. This issue will just continue to get worse when you jump into an expansion like EoF/RoK/TSO where you're pigeon holed into a raid set that may not have the same stat spread you want, making a lot of gear near useless.

    Just looking at a lot of pieces out of the templar set in EoF, I find my current boots offer relatively similar crit/potency, but my options are a little bit more crit/potency/ability mod/reuse or Casting Speed.

    If I was doing itemization I would keep the same slots having cast/reuse, this allows a vertical grow in player power rather than a side upgrade on a lot of pieces, or a downgrade in a lot of situations.

    The same goes for scouts with their current gear options, you either take mod/dps/haste or flurry&dps/ma. At the moment I personally wouldn't bother wearing anything but the Nemesis set from Labs of Lord Vyemm at the moment. The Special Attacks bonus's are just too significant to give them up for predators/rogues.
    Here is just an example of the power jump from one expansion to the next. I wouldn't picture myself taking the newer gear over the KoS nemesis set personally.

    Here is just another issue, why do furies get cast/reuse? That is by far the most valuable stat spread out of all of the itemized stat layouts currently. It's just gonna turn into another issue of the other five healer classes wearing KoS boots with cast/reuse because it's a more valuable stat layout. I can only imagine a few giving that gear up and that's if they were completely geared out, and had a buff like coercive healing. On any healer at the moment the goal is just to cap your reuse, and apply enough casting speed. You could give me 100 ability mod per piece and I wouldn't bother looking into that until I had an adequate amount of stats to be able to bolster nearly fulltime, cast holy shield on every aoe, tortoise shell on every aoe. Etc. Etc.
    Just looking at my pants as a templar, I have an option of losing .7 pot, .4 crit, 25 mod, and 1% reuse or have 4% casting speed. Everyone else has to pick between reuse/cast, reuse/mod or cast/mod. I would personally take the reuse speed/casting speed spread. It's also somewhat odd that doing a basically heroic timeline (claymore) from a previous expansion offers gear comparable to the end boss of EoF essentially (woushi).

    Adding set bonuses back into the game would help alleviate a lot of the issue with past gear becoming useful. I would suggest if set bonuses are added in to look at a few of them and improve them, especially considering the lack of focus effects in the character window, plus without them you don't really care about gear. None of the effects from Throne of New Tunaria's Mayong offer anything special, even if you guys bring back avatars; what's cool about robe of al'kabar now? Trixy Cane? Etc. etc. Nothing.

    I'm also confused as to what i'm going to look forward to itemizing for in the future, as it currently stands I have about as much reuse and almost as much casting speed as I did in TSO on Fallen Gate, during KoS on Kaladim on a templar. Ability mod isn't itemized high enough for me to really care, and why would I care about auto attack stats. It kinda leaves fervor. Yay? Adding stats into game that literally shouldn't be in game (my opinion) and weren't in game at this point anyway.

    I run at around 50% reuse and 70% casting speed in game now, once I get my hunter's crossbow and adornments i'll be sitting at easily 60% reuse in KoS gear, and 100% casting speed. Tie in a few of the new gear upgrades and coercive healing and i'm capped, in EoF.

    With your removal of overcap stat conversions even casting speed is becoming useless. On Fallen Gate I stacked endless amounts of casting speed/reuse for confront fear and overcap spell double. Now? I guess I just loot gear that has 1 more potency. Woohoo, assuming it has a stat layout that isn't useless for my class. Oh your raid set has a useless stat spread? Wear the last expansion one!

    Hunters items are also kind of an issue in game at the moment, you have inserted these insanely overpowered weapons/items from doing heroics that players can duo/solo at this point and making them on-par or better than raid gear. Why? Why is a heroic questline better than my claymore timeline which takes hours of questing and killing raid bosses? Where is the progression?

    As it currently stands the prismatic 2 weapons from DoF are on par or better than the weapons from Soulfire, a weapon two expansions ahead, and ten level's higher. You nerfed int so heavily then left a weapon in game that does onpar damage as soulfire and gives a significant int/wisdom bonus. The tank sword is outperforming nearly every green aoe in game sans one or two. I would suggest completely redoing all of the pinnacle weapons from t5-RoK. My Prismatic should be good, but not beat a questline two expansions later. As it stands now the claymore/soulfire weapons are significantly underpowered for how they are as a time invested/difficulty standpoint.

    I am finding when I clear a raid zone like Lyceum, or Halls of Seeing i'm seeing pieces worse than labs, a zone you can bot with two groups. You can also bot lyceum/halls with ease, but the zones were added later on during KoS in original launch as new zones to do. Every piece of raid gear needs to have at least four blue stats to be useful, I kill Mutagenic Outcast and get gear on par with killing some random ravasect named that I can solo. Fun.

    As far as class balance goes I don't think you guys are far off the mark, Rogues are absolutely broken to the point that predators are a useless class. They offer similar damage, and debuffs like coule/swipe, lung puncture, more mitigation debuffs, haste/dps mod debuffs etc. etc. I don't particularly see any point in running a predator at the moment, I would run one ranger next xpac for the damage incoming debuff, but that's even debatable versus an SK's incoming damage debuff, raidwide potency, and stability increase.

    This is mostly due to the removal of the quick shot focus on rangers, the makeshift arrows change from live, and the switch to interrupt on rogues that trickled over from live. Assassin's just really have no hope in being of any use considering the jousts being added to game, and rangers incoming damage debuff. I don't really know how to fix assassin's at the moment, you either need to give them a considerable buff to damage, or give them something; as of now a rogue parses as much, adds more raidwide, and have cooler hats. Mage groups also absolutely slaughter the efficiency of running a scout group, so I can't even think about doing something like that.

    Dirges seem to quickly be running out of use, if you check avoidance reports percussion of stone isn't adding nearly as much as something like having Harmonization on tank/healer temps and two more jcaps would offer. I have honestly been considering running a four troub raid starting in EoF because of the confront fear nerf. If you wanna make dirge's great again, you need to either bring back confront fear, or give them some kind of defensive bonus to beat the longer temps/reuse a troub offers.

    Paladins are awful, but I can't imagine that will ever get any better. The same goes for bruisers.

    Looking ahead for brawlers the shadows endline's Bob & Weave, and Impenetrable Will are no longer at the end of the tree making them have a lower avoidance report, and be of limited use once you hit TSO and every other tank gets something defensive and they get something that is a gimmick.

    Nothing i've said here is really new, it's just a consolidation of all the feedback from the past TLE and other threads.

    As far as raid difficulty I'm pleased with how Hurricanus/3Princes ended up being tuned. I hope this level of difficulty is included going forward.

    Also for the love of god, please remove this silly Combat Mitigation thing you guys put on live. Why do you even bother putting massive amounts of potency on gear just for it to all be mitigated by mobs, you're making it to where mages are absolutely useless in any zone with 8+ higher level targets because the potency avoidance doesn't apply to auto attacks. In Deathtoll I have mages spells hitting for 1/2 of what they do in labs, yet auto attack is still trucking. Please stop adding things that weren't in game, and no one really understands.
    Inmyprime, Reptoid, Carynn and 2 others like this.
  17. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I had some more thoughts:

    For Reference on the earlier post about comparing old gear with the cast/reuse spread versus getting 25 mod. It's honestly not even a question. I had 70% cast speed, and 50% reuse in raid today. With hunters i'll be at about 60 reuse, and 70 cast in raids. Throw on Coercive Healing and i'm at 85% cast, and 70% reuse, in full KoS gear and zero adornments.

    Unsure of really what to start gearing towards, except eventually giving up this stat spread to get more potency/crit when gear just has so much reuse/cast on the four stat layout that I can stop bothering with the reuse & cast.

    I can provide more examples if necessary.

    To be quite frank, you guys are better off if possible just reverting itemization back to Fallen Gate's, and fixing items here and there. Continue to do this when you have time and after each TLE.

    Wiping itemization every time is never going to get you anywhere considering every time it's just plagued with the same issues, and you end up back in the same place of people parsing the same or more in some scenarios than Fallen Gate.
  18. dirgenoobforreal Well-Known Member

  19. Reptoid Member

    I don't normally like to agree with Adoninilol but in this scenario literally everything he mentioned is correct. I also will say I never really quite understood the point myself in changing itemization from how it was on Fallen Gate. When the itemization finally hit per expansion, it was tuned properly and made most things worth doing. Ex. In KoS on Fallen Gate you would still want to run almost every raid zone because of there being multiple items that were worthwhile to get. Even a few heroic items were still very sought after. Now on Kaladim in KoS, being a raider this is legit all you do: Labs, DT and then try to kill contested x4's minus Mutagenic Outcast because his loot table is trash.

    I understood you guys were trying to go a different direction with itemization but this current layout simply just doesn't work. It trivializes almost everything minus Princes and Hurricanus because they were properly tuned. Stats like Reuse and Flurry shouldn't even exist imo on gear until later on. Flurry was a nice thing to get once you went over the cap of Haste but now since that doesn't have an overcap anymore there's not much point in running too many haste items like you could before. This change also diminishes several abilities significantly like Rapidity or Cacophony of Blades(remember which becomes a raid wide buff come RoK dirge mythical).

    I personally just do not understand what the goal of where to take the direction of the server actually is. If you guys really wanted to make it a TIMElocked, several aspects just wouldn't exist. I will commend the removal of the focus effects at least until Sentinels Fate. That was something made alot of classes very strong or OP in some cases like the Inquis being able to cast Tenacity on their entire group whilst also over doubling the effect. On past timelocked servers, it was impossible to beat an inquis in terms of the buffs they could give versus the other healers.

    In my opinion, the goal of a timelocked server should consist of a few things: Class Balance, Itemization and Overall Difficulty. Class Balance, like Adon mentioned, isn't too far off the mark. Both of the rogues, Brig and Swash, are incredibly broken. They do ridiculous damage and still have by far the best debuffs. This completely devalues any sort of other melee dps like an assassin. Typically in the past, there were always tiers of dps classes. Assassin, Ranger, Warlock and Wizard were all placed in the T1 category. They didn't have much, if any, group or raid utility but they had a significant damage increase compared to other classes. T2 classes were Brigand, Swashbuckler, Necromancer and Conjuror. The reason why their damage was lower was because of their utility they brought to the raid. In that form, they were balanced. Everyone had their niche. Paladin and Bruiser, like Adon mentioned, are borderline completely useless. Their counterpart does everything better. An SK does more dps and can tank better as well and same goes for a Monk.

    Itemization is a staple point for any timelocked server. You guys finally hit the mark pretty well back on Fallen Gate but I haven't the foggiest of ideas who thought it was a good idea to change it. It wasn't a good idea. Like I mentioned before, several stats weren't even a thing on gear until WAY later on like the flurry or reuse speed. Fallen Gate's itemization made the content very much worth doing, after the like 2-3 weeks it took to itemize it after release of an expac. On Kaladim, if you want to min max the raids or even heroic zones that you run you would cut out the majority of the content because of the fact that nothing minus a couple zones are actually worth running. When you can go to the broker and buy some mastercrafted stuff for almost nothing and have it be best in slot until there's some raid piece that has that stat plus another there's a problem. The example I was using was the caster forearms and boots, they have reuse and there is only a couple items in those slots that have reuse plus another stat.

    Overall Difficulty is a much harder thing to balance. This relies on both of the other topics I had mentioned before. If any of the other two are balanced improperly then the difficulty will be very easy. On Fallen Gate, the overall difficulty was actually decent. Some mobs like Avatar of Flame was near unkillable, but that's a separate topic entirely. If you guys really just reverted most things to the way they were finished on Fallen Gate, there would be very little to upkeep and most of the population would be happy with the result. I understood the reasoning behind wanting to change itemization and difficulty from when Stormhold was the timelocked server, as alot of things were way out of balance. You guys did well with Fallen Gate, I don't understand the reasoning to want to change that.
    Kalika likes this.
  20. Kalika Well-Known Member

    Of course focus effects should be removed, making tenacity groupwide was a very dire mistake, From SF onward (focus runes on raid armor came with sf) optimzed raids start to run with up to 4 inquisitors since they buffed so much and on top could cure while moving -- and they have also a sefl cure usuable even if subject to some detrimental effect) .

    I don t know where Ado got the itemization for EOF and only read part of his super long message.

    What is obvious is that a) amod is too low. b) progression is almost non existent -- finding the right progression is uneasy, i don t want raiders to do twice the dps of casuals, i don t want raid tanks to be immune but people should still be happy to get raid gear --- c) The claymore reward(s) are really very very bad considering the length of the time line.

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