Yeah, and I had saw you post that once before and from examing higher strength brawlers I tend to agree with you because my agility is pretty much the highest it can get save master chest drops and my attack is pretty average.
Yes Gage, but do you miss often? See I have noticed that AGI does help, especially if you are borderline able to hit something. When I was lower level fighting in RE was a pain since I could barely hit anything. However, once I started using AGI buffs before the fight, I was hitting extremely well. I think it is not wise to write-off the effects of AGI on your ability to hit something just because it doesn't change the Attack value on your Persona Sheet. For all we know they forgot to add AGI to that, or AGI affects something else like your weapon skills, or possibly your combat arts use AGI to modify your to-hit chance, or there is some AGI difference check computed during the fight. Who knows? All I can say is that I went from missing virtually every hit, to being able to hit more than 50% by using an AGI buff. Message Edited by RadricTycho on 02-11-2005 01:50 PM
Newp, I don't miss often at all. I really don't stress about it much, I spent a lot making Gage high agility and he always will be. I was going to take all str in the reset but I changed my mind. I'm not gonna change my vision of Gage. If agility is worthless later on, oh well.
I am gonna disagree with this since I have a higher STR than Gage does and my current hit rate (last time I checked it in my on going log file) was 96.4%. My atk is under 900 unbuffed. I can get over 1k ATk with buffs easily. When I have over 1k ATK, not only do I like hardly ever miss ( its >1% misses when i have my atk buffed out) I hit way harder in combat. Also, highlight STR on your persona window, it says str increases OVERALL melee effectiveness. Which if its overall, that means it affects your to hit score, and your damage score. Agility is just for ranged weapons I am sure. Moorgard stated that you will have one stat that is most important to your archetype. For fighters its STR. I do not dismiss the importance of agi or sta, those are both important, but I am sure of it that agi does not effect your to hit score with melee.
I also think a lot of my accuracy comes from STR buffs. I have like 98 or 99 unbuffed and in groups its usually 200+ so that raises my ATK too. This is gonna be a subject I agree with Gangster on, because not only has he built his toon for STR but he parses all the time. He has parses based on STR and I have them based on AGI, besides what he is saying makes a lot of sense.
Actually, after the reset I balanced out my stats. My str, stamina, and agility are all roughly all about even and all over 100 unbuffed. This way when I get buffed out (like a troub, or a mystic) I have way over 300 in each stat. Which gives me bonuses all around. I chose a human for my monk which was 20 across the boards, so I just kinda stayed level as i could. Now, I do keep different equipment on me and can sacrifice agility for str or vice versa if I think its gonna make a big difference either way. However, I have yet to find a huge difference either way.
Well how do you explain my little experiment? Not able to hit in mid-fight, use my AGI buff and I start hitting again. I think there is more to it than we realize. Yes STR more than likley does help, since it raises your attack roll it's virtually certain. But just because AGI does not change a stat we can see does not mean that it doesn't help. And since I have experienced a direct improvement of hit rate with nothing more than AGI added, I have to stick to my guns here.
What experiement? Do you play a monk? Since when do monks get an AGI buff? I am confused by your post. I parsed in sol eye the other night when I went down there to help some people finish bastion access. I was main tank and in my group I was able to get over 400 str, my ATK was over 1.1k. My miss rate was >1%. Take into factor any roleplaying game, even dungeons and dragons ( i know I know geek alert!) all of your melee skills are based off str. Same goes for all the final fantasy games, same goes for pretty much every RPG type video game. However, I am not saying that since every game has to be this way, I am saying there is a pattern from years ago that has been standard from then and pretty much until now. Fighters are suppose to do the most damage melee wise (just standard melee, no skills or spells used), and they have the best damage/delay weapons. They get lots of self haste buffs, and str and defense buffs. Look at your defense when you fight a mob. For example when I have all my defense buffs up, my defense is at 270, which is 20 points higher (or 4 levels higher) than what it should be. So technically I am defending myself as if I were level 54, because my defense skill buffed is at the base level of a level 54 character. That probably means more than agility, especially since deflection (parry, block, riposte) is based off our defense skill. I tanked a level 52 ^^^ x2 the other night with a 5 man group, and I tanked around the same even with the agility nerf. I think perhaps a lot of people are confusing avoidance with deflection, to me they are two seperate things. Having adept 3 or master defensive skills is better than agility equipment IMO.
If Radics numbers are assumed to hold over all, then Im not as against the armor change. VL: ??? / ??? L : 135 / 182.25 M : 203 / 203 H : 236 / 261.96 Seems like before the patch the there was a significant jump from light to medium where as now there its shifted to medium to heavy. It should probably be set so that each step is a simular jump. I would be amused to see if these numbers are correct on test. Examine the same tier store armor on live then test for all 4 lvls and chart them. Overall I still think monks could use a new skill line that provided some midigation and a new buff line that impoves either the midigation or avoidance skills.
GangsterFist Wrote: What experiement? Do you play a monk? Since when do monks get an AGI buff? I am confused by your post. Stagering Stance is an agility buff...I dont mean to jump in on the convo but it is an agility buff.
As far as I know there are four(4) Monk Combat arts that increase agility: Storming Hydra, Phin's Mountain Haven, one of the lvl 30 training options, and staggering stance. There may be more but these are the only ones I know of. Fuuko Onimeno 33 Monk Najena
Staggering stance is a deflection buff, that just happens to add a bit of agility, I don't think the minor agility increase you get from staggering stance will effect your melee game greatly, if any at all.
Phin's is also broken, unless they fixed it, I don't ever use it anyways, transcendant vision is much better imo.
Where have you been? Have you not noticed that I am a monk and that I have posted here since about a week after the game went live? Maybe you haven't, that's fine but now you know. I have a level 37 monk on the Unrest Server named Cirdar. I would say take everything you know from other role-playing games and use them not as principles but hints. Since none of us have coded this game, we can't know for certain how anything works other than what we discover through observation. And to assume that something can't possibly work that way because no other game has had it work that way is definitely a logical fallacy. We do get an agility buff, but you probably didn't take it. I cant remember which level we got the option, but the training upgrade to Karmic Focus grants an increase in agility. I took it since I took anything to increase my defense. I used it in a fight where I was missing and I was suddenly hitting again. That's all there was too the experiment I was talking about. I do play a monk, there is an agility buff, and if that is all that confused you about my post then why not just ask me which buff I meant rather than taking a tone that implies I don't know what the hell I am talking about? I am not here to spread confusion or misinformation, I am just relating my experiences and observations, reading others experiences and observations and hoping to draw some real conclusions about how things work in order to be a better player and a better monk. I also parse my combat quite frequently, heck I parse all combat quite frequently, even when I play my level 30 Inquisitor. I parse it because it helps me understand how various strategies of Healing, debuffing, attacking, tanking, and damage dealing affect the outcome of the fight numerically. Before the AGI changes, I could definitely see a change in attack accuracy when my AGI was increased even slightly, especially when I was on the borderline between missing constantly and hitting. Take that as you will, I am not asking you to accept it as fact really. But I will tell you that I am not stupid, and I did witness this in a fairly isolated and repeatable scenario.
Phin's has always increased my agility. Edit: Actuall we may be talking about different skills, but the training upgrade I got (level 30?) does add agility. Message Edited by RadricTycho on 02-11-2005 03:56 PM
Woah buddy, no one calling you stupid. I was just confused because you referenced something I could not find. Also, its hard to tell who plays what on these forums. Especially when people keep saying I rerolled this or have an alt thats this - whatever. However, you mean to tell me that your one agility buff made tons of differences? Unless that buff gives like +100 agi I seriously think that if it did make a difference, it was extremely minor. Infact they stated how stats effect bonuses on the test server. From 100 to 200 pts in a stat it does not scale up that much, but at 400+ it was giving over 200% bonuses, where it was suppose to only max at 155%. Its right there on the patch notes. They also said anything over 100 in a stat would not see a change because it didn't impact that huge of a difference. Any stat over 200 will be adjusted slightly down, and anything over 400 will be scaled down to 155% bonus. I am not trying to say you are stupid. I am simply just disagreeing with your findings is all. You have your opinion and I have mine. However, it has been in my experience STR effects your to hit, and your damage roll. If str just determined melee damage it would be kind of pointless. AGI, effects your avoidance (not to be confused with deflection) and your ranged accuracy. Stamina effects HP pool and regeneration, Wis and Int effect casters power poll and they also effect spell avoidance and spell resists. Moorgard made that statement a long time ago that every stat was important in this game, and that even though you may not rely on a stat, having those bonuses from the stat will be helpful
Well I don't want to beat a dead horse but starting a reply with: What experiement? Do you play a monk? Since when do monks get an AGI buff? Is a pretty ugly way to continue a civil conversation about something that at the end of the day is just an observation. Again I am just relating what I saw, I am positive of what I saw, but I certainly can't and wouldn't try to stop you from dismissing it as bunk. I don't know why a small increase in AGI would help as much as it did, other than possibly there is a threshold where AGI begins to matter. If my base AGI was sitting just below that threshold and by buffing I went over it and gained full benefit for the higher AGI score, it could have an affect like this. I sure wish the game had better documentation than it does. It sucks to try and figure out whether something they state as a helpful hint in the game is full of crow, or defines the thing precisely.
