Unofficial Dirge Issues Thread

Discussion in 'Dirge' started by ARCHIVED-Laureous, Dec 16, 2004.

  1. ARCHIVED-Laureous Guest

    Lanet's Excruciating Scream
    Issues: Kiting exploit revealed before change. Post change status as of 12/16 that it is a subpar spell, with power to damage ration far less than relative level skills. Developers are looking into re-tooling, status unknown. EDIT: On Test Server: - The damage on Lanet's Excruciating Scream has been increased.

    Song Rebuffing
    Issues: Refreshing song buffs without cancelling said buff without space for concentration points gives the message that there is no concentration points left. If a song is running, recasting should just reset the timer on the buff rather than acting like it is a new song.

    Songsters Luck
    Issues: Due to the recent benefit reduction of this song, in its current form, does not earn the merit of being a 2 point concentration. Either raise the current benefit from using this song, or lower the concentration use to 1.

    Garsins Funeral March
    Issues: Due to the problems with pathing and AI, its current form is dubious at best for use. If used indoors, it forces the AI into walls, ceilings and other hard, inaccessible areas.

    Hyrans Angry Sonata
    Issues: As it was address in other forums, it was supposed that this song was to redirect hate from the dirge to another target. Although this song could be of use, in the current game dynamic, singing ANY buff song can generate hate from an encounter. Retooling this to function as originally intended would be more desirable. Please review for this option.

    (Please post constructive comments in regards to bugs and/or broken skills suggestions. Try to keep it clean, clear and concise so that developers can easily see our issues. Also the fact that other threads similar to this were viewed and replied to by developers. ;) )
    Message Edited by Laureous on 12-17-2004 12:07 PM
  2. ARCHIVED-Kragmire Guest

    Disguise: Dark Elf

    Two issues with this song:

    First, why does a good class get a good race disguise, and an evil class get an evil race disguise? Isn't that reversed? Ie shouldn't a dirge be able to disguise himself as a good race, and a troubadour disguise himself as an evil race? In my opinion this fits much better with the role of scout, etc. After all, this is a level 40 song.

    Second, what do you get if you are a dark elf? Shouldn't you be able to choose what race you disguise into? Or shouldn't there be an alternative if your race equals the disguise race?

    Message Edited by Kragmire on 12-17-2004 09:18 PM
  3. ARCHIVED-Fiadora-EQ Guest

    This song is working as intended. It increases the Dirge's hate with the encounter, just as the equivalent Troubador song decreases the Troubador's hate with the encounter. If they change the Dirge song to be targetable on fellow players (i.e. the Tank)....then they ALSO need to change the Troubador song to be targetable on the cleric/enchanter, etc.
  4. ARCHIVED-VelvetAcid13 Guest

    Dirge and Troubadour arn't split by good & evil but by the type of songs they play so it does fit.
    I'm playing a 'Good' dirge at the moment.
  5. ARCHIVED-Avocet Guest

    What I'm wondering is this. I'm a Dark Elf already, so is the Disguise: Dark Elf just going to change me into myself?
  6. ARCHIVED-Yolos Guest

    This song does NOT work as intended. The poster above would like the spell changed to be castable on specific targets, but that does NOT mean its working correctly. In fact, I have Adept I of this ability and have casted it many times during battles to see if I could get hate with it(both tests and XP sessions). I've never gained hate when using this ability. However, if I cancel the Attack/Debuff song and re-sing it, I can gain aggro immediately.
    If this is working as intended, then tell me why after 10-15 seconds, I still haven't gained aggro with the Sonata, but after 2-4 seconds, I can have complete aggro with a buff?
    Which would you cast if you wanted hate? A song that says that increases hate or a song that will instantly give you hate PLUS an attack/defense bonus?

    Devs, its broken , please review both its effectiveness and its functionality(ie ability to target others)
  7. ARCHIVED-Yolos Guest

    While this is fun fluff, its pointless as Dark Elves are turned into themselves and city officials still can tell which city you are from.
    What I'd like to see is this ability changed into two spells that both the troubadour and the dirge have. They would be something like Disguise: Good and Disguise: Evil. The spells would randomly change the dirge/troubadour into another race. This would be more fun and it fits the Lore of bards more: "There are many who question a bard’s motives, but none can question their skill and resourcefulness. The bard is a performer – they believe that if something is to be done, it is to be done in style, and if you can do so in iambic pentameter, all the better."
    Letting us transform into other races(both good and evil) to mimic or perform seems more lore worthy than having the ability to change into one class.
    Message Edited by Yolos on 12-21-2004 12:27 PM
  8. ARCHIVED-Nimbalina Guest

    i agree with all of the above
  9. ARCHIVED-Rungar Guest

    one issue i have is the use of debuffs.

    Fights are short and each one takes 3 s to cast.

    i believe each debuff should have a 1-2 sec cast time max.

    i like to cast two debuffs per fight, but its half over by the time they are applied..

    if they were 1-2 seconds, you could get them applied and be in the fight much faster.
  10. ARCHIVED-hawek Guest

    Dirges and Troubadors are considered Neutral classes. I play a WE Dirge and look forward to the DE illusion.

    I also agree with the post that all those spells need to be looked into. also Garsin's is very weak to begin with
  11. ARCHIVED-Lornick Guest

    Outside of pathing issues, I actually like Garsin's. I was in a Zek group the other day and I used it almost every pull on the double undercon boss orcs while we destroyed him pansy friends. It really helped alot since healers didn't have to spend as much power or get as much healing aggro on the pull. It does suck in dungeon zones however, unless your in a big room it just isn't worth casting there.
  12. ARCHIVED-Rootbiscuit Guest

    The rebuffing/concentration problem is the bane of my eq-life.
    I'm far too lazy to cancel buffs every 7-10 minutes to recast them so, inevitably end up with at least one pull where buffs have dropped.

    Another issue, imo, is the debuffs we have using concentration points.

    I don't see Priests using concentration to cast weakness on mobs, so why should I have to in order to use Clara's or Reproaching Discante?

    As for the Angry Sonata, it's supposed to target a group member and increase their hate, not the dirge's.
  13. ARCHIVED-Captain_Xpendable Guest

    I have a 21 Fury and recently started a Scout that I plan on making a Dirge. In addition to your point, I've also been wondering what is so "uber" about bard spells that some of them have to take 2 concentration slots and you have to keep refreshing them. I'm used to being able to "set and forget" my buffs and can have up to 5, how would it be unbalancing to give the bards the same advantage? Is there any other class that has to put up with this?

    Unfortunatly, I suspect the reason is no better than to make bards "different".
  14. ARCHIVED-raptorjb007 Guest

    I am assuming we have to refresh them all the time to keep us singing. THink about it, if we had the set and forget stratagy, bards would never sing, or play intruments. The way it is now, you always hear a drum, guitar, or see some sort of weird singing type animation.

    Im don;t mind it, but the conc point rebuff issue really makes it a pain. I have to limit myself to 4conc point usase just so I dont have to cancel a spell evertime brias is about to fade.
  15. ARCHIVED-Rootbiscuit Guest

    I personally think the reason we have to be constantly rebuffing is to satisfy people coming from different games (including eq1) where the bard class(es) are traditionally "busy". ie. Constantly twisting or changing songs (and in some cases meleeing and CCing too).

    This way it gives the appearance of constant activity without any of the rewards that making such an effort brings in other games (thinking specifically about eq1 and DAoC here).

    Frankly, it's annoying and unecessary.

    If I have to work that much harder than other classes then I expect my returns to be greater too.
  16. ARCHIVED-Rungar Guest

    personally i believe that there is no need for 3 min buffs in this game.

    all conc buffs should be 30 minutes ( all classes)
    all non conc buffs should be 20 minutes( all classes) with expection of parry based buffs which should be 5 min/2 min recast

    it would also help alot of the buffs overwrote eachother so you could cast on the fly and not need to take other buffs off before reapplying.
  17. ARCHIVED-Priestbane Guest

    To add to the issues thread:

    Death's Scent is the Dirge upgrade to Performer's Talent. They both occupy the same timer.
    The description for Death's Scent is that the buff provides agility, arcane and disease resistance.

    App1 of Death's Scent provides one less agility point than Performer's Talent App3.
    Death's Scent does not provide any magic resistance (unlike Performer's talent, and contrary to the description).
  18. ARCHIVED-MiscreantPyro Guest

    43 Dirge on AB server.


    The conc point thing is hella annoying and think about how many times I've done it.

    Our rez should be in combat to, to help balance the fact that troubadors get mana drain songs, health regen, and mez.

    SOE should seriously up our dmg, right now if theres a troubador available a Dirge is a totally worthless class.

    Our DOT's suck.
  19. ARCHIVED-Rungar Guest

    i just tested lanets scream, and it is doing 50 less damage than before the patch.

    i was doing 175 on blue con mobs, and now doing 125 on the same mobs at the same level.

    some upgrade in damage....
  20. ARCHIVED-Xanusus Guest

    All right I'm gonna add my 2 coppers worth to the discussion. I'm a 50 dirge and have experimented with every song and ability which we have and will address some issues with our songs and abilities.

    1)Song rebuffing - I totally agree with the first poster on this so nothing further to add

    2)Songster's luck line - Disagree with the first poster. This song is not broken and the concentration cost is definitely merited. This song line should cost 3 concentration slots but I'm happy the devs only made it 2. For those of you who doubt the effectiveness of this song come to neriak and message me when I'm free(name is giana lvl 50 dirge). This is one of the best song lines we get.

    3)Garsin's fear line - Again agree. It blows majorly to have feared mobs goto inaccessible areas and THEN get your entire party stuck in combat mode and have to camp out to get rid of it.

    4)Hyran's angry line - Can you say broken? this song does absolutely nothing. Read the other posts about it. I've tried casting this song on the main tank then on myself. It won't let me. It only allows me to cast it on mobs. What for? It certainly doesn't increase aggro/hate on the target. In fact, I made it a point the other day to let our MT with all adept or better taunts gain good aggro. Then I casted this song on the mob(while it had the MT targeted) and then let him further work up some more aggro. Then just to check if it was working, I recast my other songs. Bam!, instant aggro on me. This song is broken. It does nothing. It does not increase hate whatsoever on the target.

    5)Bria's mana line - I currently have the very latest and last version of this line and adept1(no crafters high enough to make adept3 yet on server). To be that high of a spell (I believe lvl 42 is when you get it) it's effect blows majorly. It's currently regening 16 mana a tic at lvl 50. The sad part? I already regen 22 mana a tic normally during combat so it's not even as good as normal regen during combat. That's ridiculous. How about increasing the regen per tic to 30. That's very reasonable in my opinion and not uberly overpowering either. 16 mana per tic on an adept lvl 42 song is unreasonable especially considering that most people have over 2k power at that point.

    6)Wail of woe - BROKEN...It gets resisted 100% of the time.

    7)Lithe disbelief - ok this song says it increases agility(it does, good). It increases disease resists(it does, good). It says it increases arcane resists(NOPE NADA ZILTCH, BROKEN). It does not increase arcane resist AT ALL. It also says it increases atk spd on a successful hit. Well yeah it does this but not on a successful hit like the description says. It is a *very* random proc that goes off and casts a buff that stays up for 20 seconds and does increase your atk significantly. Now onto the problem with this. Everytime this proc effect goes off it consumes mana. That wouldn't be too bad if the proc went off like it should but here's what happens a good 99% of the time. You'll go for 2 hours no joke and not receive one proc and then all of a sudden it starts proccing like mad like 5-6 times in a row. The problem with that? Well it will drain your mana bar very fast and you'll be wondering where the heck all your mana went to.

    solution: Fix the song to give the arcane resists it's supposed to. Fix the haste element of the song. i.e either make the haste an integral part of the song(no proc) or fix the proc rate on the song and for goodness sakes make it stop consuming power every time it goes off.I personally would prefer that the haste be an integral part of the song(no proc) just cast it and bam you have haste. I doubt the devs will do that for us. The proc rate is definitely messed up though. It will go hours no joke without a single proc then go off 5-6 times in a row then go another few hours without a proc then bam 5-6 procs in a row again. Always! and no I'm just not unlucky with this. This happens 99.9999% of the time. The proc part of the song is not evenly spaced out and it's consuming mana every time it procs. It's also not giving the Haste part of the song's description on a successful hit but rather just randomly.

    8) discouraging discante line - Worthless! I have fully parsed and tested this song's effect and it blows. this song line is supposed to be a debuff that decreases enemy str and agi. Obviously decreasing those stats on mobs should make them easier to hit or make them do less damage. Well it doesn't or it's sooo negligible that the song is a pointless waste of concentration. solution: Increase the debuff portion of the song or add an element that also decreases mob damage. Or make the song cost no concentration. I'm not going to waste precious concentration for a song that gives none to negligible results.

    9) Daro's doleful line - This is the song line that it supposed to lower atk spd and snare the target. Well, it does neither or either it's soooo negligible that it's not worth wasting a precious concentration slot over.

    10) Ae spells - useless. It's sad when your AE spell costs more mana to cast than your regular nuke and doesn't do as much damage as the single target nuke does. and yes i'm talking about against grouped encounters. I have the latest adept1 of our final AE nuke and it does roughly 100 damage to each mob in the encounter. Now consider that I can nuke a single target for 350-450 damage with my app4(single target nuke) for less mana. In order for the AE nuke to even be worth while for the mana cost on it I'd have to use it against an ancounter with at least 5 mobs to even think about it being more mana effecient than my single target nuke. There just aren't too many of those type encounters and the ones with 5 or more generally are weak mobs and die fast so by the time you can even get this AE nuke off the mob you had targeted is dead and now you have to pick another target and try to get it off before it dies. Pathetic. Sony our AE nukes are ****! They are mana INeffecient and do subpar damage. why should I even bother with it when I can do more damage with my single target nuke for LESS mana?

    11)Haste song line - Pointless! In fact any haste in this game is pointless( cept for maybe the iquisitor haste which affects cast time for casters) The majority of DPS in groups comes from weapons skills/spells/etc NOT from hitting auto atk which is what haste affects. Haste has no affect on weapon skills and thus is not necessary for DPS. That fact makes our haste songs pointless. Why again do they cost 2 conc slots when I can play other songs which will increase group DPS more so than the haste song line? Haste is only important when all people are doing is hitting the auto atk button and not using skills. Who does that?

    That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Devs look into these issues please.
    Message Edited by Xanusus on 01-16-2005 11:54 AM
    Message Edited by Xanusus on 01-23-2005 12:15 AM
    Message Edited by Xanusus on 02-01-2005 02:33 AM

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