Unneccesary timesinks....

I really like this idea.

I know you get what you put into the game. Those who have more time, get more, those who don't, dont. I'm fine with that. However, this is a great compromise, whereby say RL gets going and I can't log in for 2 days, I could make those two days up on Friday night or Saturday morning, when I have a little extra time.

I play with what is given to me, but how will SOE know what we want, if we don't ask for it? The Mara set up was great, because there are the Weekly, Dailiy and Writs to do, so depending on what you wanted to do, it was avaialable to you.

/shrug. SOE has to anticipate what people want. Sometimes they don't get it right, sometimes they do. But let us not forget, just because they win in some players aspects, doesn't mean they win in all. There will always be those who don't like the way somethign is set up and ask for change.

I think it did just fine on comparing apples to apples, the old zone revamps were alot of resources for very short lived new life; minor revamps on the faction time sinks on TS timelines would require minimal effort and resources for a similar reception; theres already been people posting in this thread who have said as much that they don't do them because the timesink simply isn't worth it, but if they could knock it out in one shot, would. As for people who would do them, they are crafter items, there is no golden path here, and most crafters who don't have the various epics are because of the time sink component.

The old zone revamps for were months of work on content that wasn't terribly short lived. In the case of EF and LS, they included content that was relevant for the high levels. DLW content was adjusted to make low level life a little better. Those were all changes worth making. It was a lot of resources and that amount of resources isn't available anymore. These few faction runs are a small bump in the road and there's really nothing wrong with them. People can be as stubborn as they want. They're just wasting the time they could be spending doing the questing. 14 little quests and it's done. We're on day 4 of this conversation. People could be almost a third of the way through any faction grind. Just give it up and do the quests already.

Thats like calling the CoE sig line abump in the road...sure anyone can do it in a few hours...but they put in the key anyways...

You can't be serious.

The time spent on one of those faction runs doesn't even fill up the running of one of those solo instances.

I can't speak for the "most crafters that don't have the various epics" but as for the crafters that I have that don't have them its because there is no benifit from them. Crafting isn't hard. Who needs the earring? Harvesters. Who needs the crafting weapon? Nobody. Who needs the shawl? Ok, it has a nice harvesting buff and the 1% recovery of materials proc is nice...and totally overshadowed by the AA line. The funny thing about that is I finished the faction grind on every toon...I just don't feel like asking my guildies to supply parts because its too much of a bother. Maybe if the shawl was worth as much as the AA I'd do it. But for 1%? My armorer can wait till I get one of everything. I've always thought the AA should be equal to the shawl. 3% each would be fine.

Having completed 8 SF Tradeskill Weapons, 8 Prayer Shawls, 9 Harvesting Cloaks, 7 Harvesting Ponies, and 8 Tradeskill Griffons (and not all at once), I can honestly say I've "waited in line" plenty of times for daily quests, I've done my Bathezid faction grinds, and I've spent countless hours in Nek Forest scouring for animal dens. And you know what? I've enjoyed every minute of it.

I really don't think removing the daily quests is necessary. Those who truly enjoy content and completing quests will do them; others will move on to something else. There's a wonderful sense of accomplishment I get each time I complete one of these things, and to have the developers turn on "easy mode" would ruin it for me. This game has gotten far to "easy mode" lately as it is. Let's just agree to disagree, and keep things the way they are. The daily quests won't kill you.

QUICK!!! Someone get him to the nice men in the white coats! there there Kethryl, here take this nice blue pill and you'll feel all happy and warm inside.....

Just playing with ya. ( and I do so because you've helped the Qho brat so many times. )

I understand what your saying, I'm not mad and DEMANDING a change, I just wanna get some of that stuff done, so I don't have to think about it anymore. Thats all. I would PREFER to have the dailies modified. In fact I like the idea of making them a Weekly cap of 7 instead of the daily. Its just hard on some days of the week for me to get into game and do all my dailies ( which take about 2 hours, considering zone times, etc. ) on my chars. That would still make getting them done an accomplishment, etc.

I've continued doing my faction grinds. I'm not waiting for SOE to change it. That would just be naive and stupid. Anyone who thinks they can just make a post about something they would "like" changed and think SOE is gonna jump all over that and have it in right away needs thier head examined.

Happy Crafting Peoples!

Is there really play value in having a player complete the DOV tradeskill faction quests with every crafter on a single account? Or having to grind any other tradeskill faction repeatedly? Why can't crafters have tradeskill faction tokens on the appropriate vendors like the adventure factions do?

By comparison, tradeskilling for faction has been so easy. Let's have a look at the two Thurgadin factions. On one hand, you have The City of Thurgadin, the adventure faction. ZAM lists 63 quests that increase that faction. For Forgemasters, it's 23 (nearly a third). Going by numbers alone, an adventurer clearly has a lot more work to do. Factoring in the time it takes to reach your goals for each faction, the difference becomes even greater. Crafters can't have tokens because they really don't need them. By the time you're done with Forgemaster faction, you've probably advanced a level or two without having to do much in the way of grinding. I recently used the entire Othmir line to gain some of my levels to hit 95. Adventurers can't quite do the same. It takes many more hours to gain levels and reach any kind of end goal. That's why they get tokens.

You do not appear to understand my question. What value is there in having me grind the daily faction quests with every single crafter I get to a high enough level to do the epic or shawl quests instead of allowing me the option of "one and done?" A player who wants to complete the epic for each crafting profession will spend far more actual days of time grinding the prerequisite faction to be able to begin the quest while the adventurer only need grind the faction once to allow every other character access to quests and rewards beyond that point.

I guess I did misunderstand something. If you're talking about the item goals, then my counterpoints are epics, mythicals and the CoE cloak. All of those require the players to repeat content. Saying this stuff takes days is a bit of an exaggeration. Sure, there's downtime, but there's plenty to be done in that downtime. The actual time invested in the tradeskill quests is hardly anything. If you decide to do it 9 or 20 times, it's your own problem. The fact that you can do it that many times should tell people how unnecessary it is to address these "timesinks".

It takes several days of doing the Daily DOV tradeskill faction quest to be able to progress on the Shawl Quest. One will have to complete 27 writs if not a high enough level adventurer to gain Bathezid faction to complete the Artisan Epic timeline. (Meaning one would complete 243 writs to complete the timeline once for each profession.)

What is the value in having a crafting player complete those faction quests over and over again that is apparently absent from requiring adventurers to complete faction quests over and over again on different characters? Why do adventurers not need the faction gate if they wish to advance additional characters along certain adventure questlines that require faction.

Also, why are adventurers given the added bonus of being able to trade in shards for faction when there is not a comparable option for crafters?

I am not suggesting that a player only need complete the questlines for the shawl or Artisan Epic only once for every character on an account, I am merely asking why the faction gate exists only for players who wish to complete questlines requiring factionn grinds when adventurers do not. Adding a faction token for the tradeskill factions would not change the need for a player to first earn the faction on an initial character nor the need to complete the rest of the questlines.

If you're going to blatantly ignore points like that, there's nothing more to discuss here.

Ignore what points? Your entire argument can be summed as follows.

Having a faction granting token that allows players to skip the faction grind portion of certain questlines in the game after grinding faction once on a character is good for gameplay.

Having a faction granting token that would allow players to skip the faction grind portion of certain questlines in the game after grinding faction once on a character is bad for gameplay.

Your position is simple, completing crafting content is to be reserved only for those willing to dedicate the time under the exact current system and that there should never be any changes to that timeline. If players view the daily gate as too much of a barrier to attempt the content, then so be it. It is better to have unused content in the game gated by the artificial time constraints of the daily quest system than to attempt to find a better system that might allow players more flexibility in their approach to the content.

You remain ever so the protector of the status quo, regardless of the consequences, because you are satisfied with it.

You're definitely not paying attention. You're too fixated on this imaginary role I play to see what it is I'm trying to say. Maybe you should have some unbiased person read the statement. I'm sure someone who doesn't even play the game would figure out that my position is not what you say it is. Here's a hint. There's simple math involved.

I got my new carpenter up to 95 rather quickly, going from 23 - 95 in the month of January. I started doing daily quests in The Moors, then Kunark, Sundered Frontier, and finally Thurgadin. Months later I finally get the quest in the mail for Shadows of the Betrayed and I realize it's only felt like months.

Having done all 4 sets of dailies every day I logged in (just about every day) I am a little confused by my faction with the various groups (before today's chores).

Moors of Ykesha:
- Survival Accord: 37k warmly
- Guktan Guard: 15.5k amiably
- Clan Grobb: 15.5k amiably

RoK:
- Riliss: -3750 indifferent
- Bathezid's Watch: -3000 indifferent
- Legion of Danak: -3500 indifferent

SF:
- Kerra Isle Outfitters: 24k kindly
- Researchers of Quel'ule: 27k kindly
- Hua Mein Craftsmen: 34k warmly
- Craftkeepers: 33k warmly

DoV:
- Forgemasters of Thurgadin: 39k warmly

I started the Moors a couple weeks before DoV and today I got my prayer shawl. The menders in Grobb and Tupta still won't talk to me and I'm 23k away from even being able to start the Master Crafter quest. But I'm finished DoV and almost SF.

I'll chime in on the side of "yes I think 3 and 4 expacs ago taking this long for faction is definitely an unneccesary timesink." Please give those old dailies a bump in faction rewards.

I also like someone's idea of a weekly quota. It would be nice to just binge on dailies once a week and be not burnt out on them for the rest of the week so I could actually do something else.

Ok, simple math for just the DOV questlines.
Adventure Quests completed for City of Thurgadin Faction = 63 total, granting the faction status necessary to progress for every single adventuring character on the player's account. So that equals 63 quests and done, assuming the player redeems no shards for faction.

Crafting Quests completed for Forgemasters Faction = 23 total, plus 23 quests for each crafting character on the player's account that wish to progress through the DOV crafting questlines. Assuming a player would want to complete it once for each crafting profession, that would be 207 quests. If the player wants to advance any additional crafters through the DOV questline, he or she will have to grind the 23 quests for each additional character.

How many days of logging in will it take an adventurer to complete the necessary faction grind to advance in the DOV adventure questline? That solely depends on how many hours a player wants to spend grinding the faction each day doing the Shard Quests and PQ's. Erring on the conservative side, most adventurers should achieve 40k Faction with City of Thurgadin so it would be 14 days and that players is forever done with having to do faction quests with the City of Thurgadin.

How many days of logging in will it take a crafter to complete the necessary faction grind to advance in the DOV crafting questline? 14 days for each character so for a player to complete the faction grind with the Forgemasters on each of the crafting professions will spend 126 days on a two minute quest to advance in the DOV Crafting timeline, plus all of the time required to grind the pre-requisite faction to even reach that point in the crafting timeline.

So, I repeat my question. What is being added to the game for the crafting character to be required to repeat a faction grind which is nothing more than a timesink that is not taken away from the game for a similar faction timesink grind for adventuring professions?

Going in chronological order:

Kunark factions were always intended to be done along side adventuring. Once you picked the factions up on one character, you were able to get all the recipes for everyone else. Bathezid is the only one that matters for any alts after that point. -20k is maybe 7 dailies or as many writs as you can tolerate.

As I recall, Moors factions were only worth getting to 0 for the furniture recipes. The only tie-in to any major TS quest was getting the mud for the Shawl piece.

SF was when they started lightening up on the grinding and introduced the 14 day plan for maxing faction. The only one you really need to be concerned with is your own class. Again, it's like Kunark, where you can just max once and have access to all the recipes for all your toons.

DoV continued that plan and simplified it down to one faction and put a sig line immediately at the end of that instead of it, so it didn't feel like you were just waiting for two weeks to receive a mailing.

Looking back, I think anything before DoV could be considered unnecessary, but in the sense that you really don't need to do them in the first place. I've only ever done Kunark, Moors and SF to max once. So, there's really no requirement for anything other than when you want a signature item.

just for the record - in the First place Kunark recipes were No-Trade, it was only later they became heirloom. i remember this as i pounded all 3 sets of writs on my provisioner when kunark was a no level range pvp zone and i got killed so many times i decided no other toon was going to bother. was very relieved when they became heirloom.