Unfair Avatar Monopolizing

I did not say that was reason or not reason to push through changes to the game.

I simply said your assertion that players who can't or wont adjust their play schedule are defacto 'lazy' is complete ********.

This I can agree with, however I think you're unable to see things from those players point of view.

In their opinion, since they are unwilling to change their schedules, they don't see alot of value in taking the time to test-copy and learn the strats so that they could successfully pull an avatar that just happened to pop during their raid times.

Are they fully in the right with that viewpoint? Probably not, but I'm at least close enough to these players to understand their viewpoint and understand why they don't try. When the perceived chance of getting something is small enough, performing the pre-req time to be ready to get it on the off chance they can get a pull isn't valued as a 'useful and reasonable' use of their time.

Perhaps this new instanced avatar being slightly simpler than test-copy to learn them will be enough to get these players interested in learning the fight on the wild chance that they can catch a spawn in their normal playtimes. I'm not sure, I think it comes down to the level of rewards for doing so. If they can get atleast EM loot while learning the starts, maybe they won't value that as a waste of their time.

I'm sure that is a sliding scale though. As in, I'm certain my HC raid force will go kill them all once just to do so, to see the fight, to kill it just for fun regardless of little to no rewards from them. My casual raid force? I doubt they'll have much interest at all unless the loot is representative of the challenge.

I don't really think you want loot "representative for the challenge" as people already mentioned that avatars are of almost no strat status, now That loot would be bad... worse than the current garbage avatars drop 99% of the time outside of the rare decent items

It's funny, because I'm pretty sure every single person that regularly kills Avatars feels this way when they open the chest for another bad neck and misc other useless item, every single time.

Or Shaman or Druid helm, so many alt helms.

actually we've never lost an avatar & just got our 2nd druid helm today (1st one months after every other server had them going to 2nd & 3rd alts). we've also never seen a single mage ear. go go rng 8-(

I feel that would be loot between EM and CM currently. A few avatars being a bit tougher, and a few not.

Obviously there is no reason for 200+ stat gear coming off instanced avatars. I really don't expect anything from an instanced one that isn't representative of the challenge.

you don't understand, the current gear that drops from avatars aren't representative for their challenge. they are higher due to the fact they are considered contested. if they had gear for their challenge it would be much lower atm. and with all that the ones being put in the instance, if they had gear for their challenge, would be Even worse.

And this is the reason why this whole thread is pointless. I'm not going to elaborate, as I am content in the knowledge that both sides of the argument know exactly what this means.

I certainly hope these new instanced avatars offer the same ring update at least. If it's the exact same fight, same difficulty, etc., it needs to be closer to it's existing loot table than an EM loot table in my opinion. EM gear is already too plentiful, we don't need more. By doing this the devs give progression guilds a little bit more of a stepping stone to DC and SG than what currently exists.

No I fully understand the current avatar loot is representative of it coming from contested spawns and I would expect instanced avatars to be representative of the challenge and not inflated to the supposedly contested current ones. If you read this thread it should be clear we have understanding of the itemization rational as much of this thread was questioning that rational.

No it really isn't the same fight or same difficulty AINEC.
This should not award the ring.
You wipe on a contested you may have just lost that mob, you wipe on the instanced version you just pull it again and again until you kill it.
You don't have to wait until the particular version you need spawns, etc.
There is a world of difference between the 2 and the loot doesn't need to be closer to the avatar loot as it can be pulled on demand and is probably going to turn into a ridiculous SLR venue anyway.

The mechanics of the fight are identical according to devs but the loot is designed to compensate for it not being contested. What is your argument again? Oh and if you wipe to an avatar and lose it then perhaps you shouldn't be trying to fight it in the first place. They are super easy. Show up, pull it and let your cat walk on your keyboard. You think that is worth Ethereal and mythical loot? Really?

I feel like it would have been much better if the Avatars would have been made much harder in the first place so that either people wouldn't complain about not being able to pull them, even top guilds had to wait for at least 20 players (rather than 12 and 8 box accounts) resulting in more pulls and if this instance happened anyway there'd be a legitimate case for the loot being better than Drinal 2 well loot. Here's hoping Prexus, Drinal and Sol Ro are better and harder (please no lifts though).

Do you people even have any shame left? i mean seriously instanced avatar's and you still want loot to match contested? what more do you want ? guaranteed etherels too ? ..and in a few months when everyone realizes that learning the strats was never the prob with contested mob's being contested, and your bored with your free loot and still not getting the ''real'' avatar's then what? back here to make more threads and sink even lower in community standing ?

The loot is designed for it not being contested when killed in the instanced version but the achievement should be the same? What is YOUR argument again?

Also, I find it funny that somebody who complained how difficult and hard it is/was to even pull an avatar are now saying that it isn't worth Ethereal and Mythical loot. If you think it's easy and not worth the loot why not go and contest the contested mob?

I can remember a statement from a dev (Kander maybe, dunno exactly) that the first three contested avatars were just the beginning of a whole new release of contested avatars - and that they are (and now comes the important part) THE EASIEST ONES since they are here to GET EVERYONE INTO ATTEMPTING CONTESTED CONTENT again - which means, you arent THAT limited by bad gear or lower AAs but only to the fact you have to organize for them and do a call-list if necessary.

Then all three Hounds of War were getting introduced with alternating scripts and all of them were killed within a few pulls by the "best/dominating/call it what you want" guild on a server.
The message everyone could be able to kill them if you have a half-decent clue spread as fast as the fact that the loot is overpowered to the challenge they offer.

What happened? Barely any other guild showed up for months, here and there a pull, but thats pretty much it and there was no contest on those mobs. They spawned, they died - end of story.

Then the 2nd set of avatars got introduced (Tunare, Rodcet Nife and Marr) and everyone was expecting them to be a notch harder and other guilds to show up to run for a firstkill, but it was quite the opposite - all got killed within 2-4mins within 1-3pulls again and the loot was still OP for the challenge they offer.
Since then a few avatars got killed by more than one guild on a bunch of servers, but the goal to have multiple raidforces alternating pulls on those for a few hours is miles aw..............galaxys away, more likely.

So, it would be a step into the right direction to make the new incoming ones (Sol Ro, Prexus and Drinal) at least as hard as Lord Tavalan EM to provide the possibility to actually let more people get the chance to do more than one pull on those.
And boost the loot by quite a notch, make it so people in full PoW gear will say "gosh, I HAVE to go for contested avatar loot because its just best in slot with UNIQUE procs!".

And towards Arena of the Gods:

I bet instanced avatar loot will have maybe 0.2cb/pot less than the contested versions and the majority will be like "ok, now I definitely wont go for contested versions since I grab very good loot undisturbed every 3days".

Dont let that happen, make it as bad/good as ST: Unearthed loot from the first 5 named or so - I know people keep saying we dont need more EM loot, but there is no justification to let instanced avatars drop loot which is better than from PoW - just because players can firstpull most avatars while struggling killing Tagrin or Glokus, for example.

I believe what Lempo was trying to say is that because they are not truly contested (the instanced ones) they should not update the Achievement rings.

Then again if you can kill Pirate Kings that Achievement ring is worse. Hell the crafted Reactant Ring from Sirens Grotto is better. You just have to know how to make it right.