Underpowered class?

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by ARCHIVED-Vorgier, Oct 12, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Xil Guest

    Cica wrote:
    It's all true unfortunatley. And the seperate armor isn't really doing much for Necro but the Conjy LOVE IT. Wonder if maybe someone who happens to play a conjy and designed the majority of it has anything to do with that? ...
    And it's SOE. They don't get paid to improve the game they get paid to inhance the ability of the game to either make more money or continue to make money.
    But mockery aside the only way we can see any kind of change that won't completely $#!%-can the class in general is to offer up solutions where we as the people actually playing the class see they should be made.
    Seems kinda silly that we have to do this because they are getting paid to but it doesn't change that fact. It's a service they provide so they base their improvements on feedback in order to suck the most money out of the most people possible.
    So far the only solid feedback (that they can handle reading) has been for other classes. We have to play the forum censored post game in order to get the people who matter to read the feedback. Soon as they see this sucks /fail broken FIX IT!! ect... and so on they ignore the whole thread. No matter how good the information presented might be or how accurate. It's like they have a little melt down when something gets negative and just have to stop looking for fear of shattered delusions of happy nice nice land....
    We gotta give them something they can't just write off on some deluded sense of the right and wrong way to post or communicate.
    Persoanlly I know without a shadow of a doubt that a good argument will produce 10 thousand times more productive results than compliant agreement. But these games are run on a business model by business people who care nothing for creativity and innovation so we have to play by their rules.
  2. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Xil wrote:
    we aren't filling taxes. the dev's are regular people and this is a video game, if they want to fix the class there are many, many post that they can gander into and see exactly what the class needs.

    no one is flaming necros... this a game fourum and if you say that a necro can CC 4 mobs that hit for 2-8k by him self.. some one is going to call you out on your BS. also that does nothing for the class since most smart necros/groups would just seek out a chanter for such encoutners. necros don't want to be CC ok?

    dev's know what's wrong with the class and changes like removing the spread on our lifetaps where made to take dmg form necros with high crit rates and it was done on purpose. clearly dev's have a vision for the class and it is not as top dmg dealers like they where T6 and T7.
    problem is they only fixed necro dmg and din't give the class anything to make up for it. unlike chanters when they where broken dps wise still had CC and mana regen, summoners have nothing.
  3. ARCHIVED-Eriol Guest

    Davngr1 wrote:
    Maybe the second part of your statement is correct in that they have a different vision, but the bolded part I emphatically disagree with. Right now they identified a problem "gear doesn't help summoners" as much as every other class and solved it by creating a worse problem: Implement gear that's summoner-only, thus making it very difficult for them to gear up. We have less selection than any other classes, and what we do have is worse due to the necessity of "spreading" stats between us and our pets. So an item with +10% crit for a wizard would only have 7% crit for a summoner, plus some pet-boosting stats, which probably doesn't make up for the deficiency between the 7% not being AS GOOD as 7% for a wizard.
    And that's just scaling. It has nothing to do with even "what vision" they have, it's purely how well our gear does for us versus how the SAME GEAR does for another class, and quite frankly, we're behind. And that's not even counting the atrocity of swarm pets, and how little damage we do in general (versus other mages). Even not counting spells, pure scaling, we're behind.
  4. ARCHIVED-Xil Guest

    Davngr1 wrote:
    So instead of telling me what's wrong, and I'm wrong, and that's broken, and /LIES /FLAME /FAIL... offer up a solution to the problems you see to the solution thread. Without the negative tone and the epic /fail remarks.
    And really 6 to 8k on the Shaman in RE2 while Rooting Foesmasher and Stabby and burning down Usla and Bergo, then burning Foesmasher is pretty straight forward. Most of your Damage goes into burning the adds to start off and if your group is keeping up with you on DPS (damn sure should be) by the time you get to the Shaman himself you can pop your Undead Horde and Lifeburn into him and drop him before the Horde ends. (well master horde the AD3 horde get's killed by the AE pretty quick) And keeping Stabbie rooted by himself and DPSing is not all that taxing.
    It works well. Do it all the time. Got tired of looking for a mez and started figuring out how to do it without a mez.
    But aside from our differing views on what's possible, (or your lack of faith in what's possible) it's really not benefiting anyone to tell the devs over and over the things you say they "already know". Aka "this is broke, you failed again, the class isn't balanced, OMG I HATE YOU SOE" lets move on to the more constructive side of the discussion.
    That place where we say "ok we know this stuff isn't working right, here's how I think we can fix it". That way when the devs look over the feedback from actual players playing necro (because no one at SOE plays one) they have a good idea where to start and how to make adjustments that won't completely hose the Summoner archetype in the process.
    And it absolutley has to be without the arguments and the negative feedback or they won't consider any of it. Think of it like common courtesy. If you make someone dinner and they tell you it's terrible and you failed and detail out how you failed yer gonna be ******** about it and probably pretty mad. But if they say "hey maybe you could do it this way and it would be better" you'll know something is wrong but you might consider fixing it. Before ignoring them in favor of that comfy angry place we all love so much.
  5. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Xil wrote:
    the fix in inc. it was all ready anounced and it won't be 1 minute lifeburn i hope. so post what you will, all the stuff your posting has ben posted in a nice form over and over again and nothing has ben done. for you to think that the "emotional format" of the post was the reason why it din't get fixed is just naive.
  6. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Eriol wrote:
    hey man, if dev's dont konw what's wrong why don't they just add a pet buff bonus to all gear? not just under powerd gear? oh yea, because they know that they don't want top parse necros like in T6 and T7. the fact that necro's dont benefit as much from crit has been a well known fact since the KoS AA came out.

    the fix is inc. just relax.. i for one am looking forward to having my necro bring something to a group again.
  7. ARCHIVED-Xalmat Guest

    What's wrong with the pet gear for necros? Does it not affect your pets to the same degree that it affects Conjurors?
  8. ARCHIVED-Eriol Guest

    Xalmat wrote:
    Because, if a piece of legendary gear is considered "balanced" with +40int and +10% crit (probably higher stats, but I'm pulling numbers from thin air) then if they throw pet stats on it, to be considered "Balanced" by the devs, it would probably have only 30int and 6% crit or something, plus the pet-affecting stats because it has "more effects" on it. When in reality a piece of gear is only PARTIALLY effective for us, we need MORE compensation, not less, as the 10% crit is only on 60% of our DPS, not 100% like a wizzie or warlock or something.
    And add to that the fact that it cut our "good gear" selection down SEVERELY (most gear that's good for us will now be SPECIFIC drops, rather than being able to take ANY crit/dmg gear), this is overall the WRONG solution. They should have made our gear scale stats ONTO the pets, not having specific gear ONLY for summoners (that's prenerfed anyways).
  9. ARCHIVED-TumpieBrell Guest

    Davngr1 wrote:
    Has anything specific been mentioned by a dev?
  10. ARCHIVED-Xil Guest

    TumpieBrell wrote:
    No it hasn't. The only mention of a Necro fix has been to say "Yes we know there is a problem, we would like Necro to be more comparible to scouts, and no plan is currently underway to make this happen because of time restrictions"
    Which basically means someone in Public Relations said "let's tell them something vague that we can't be held accountable for and give them something else to talk about besides how we ignored them for over 2 years."
    There is no incoming fix. There is no plan. No one at SOE even plays a necro. They don't know how to play the class and they rely on a Dev that plays a Conjuror for all Necro specific information and that will screw any hope of an eventual fix ever even working. So the people who play necro need to speak up and let them know where the real problems are before they try to dump another blanket fix on us designed for Conjuror. Yes the new gear is Conjuror focused, even the Necro only gear unfortunatley. Understandable though because the one working on most if not all of it plays a Conjuror and really only has a basic understanding of how the Necro class differs from Conjy.
    And Dav how many times do people have to say fixing a class with gear and AA's is wrong before you take the time to think about it? No other class is even close to as reliant as Necro and Conjy are on AA's and Gear already. More gear and More AA's is absolutley not the answer.
    You go on and on about how you know the class and have the answer yet you give no answer you offer no solutions you simply boast about your self proclaimed mastery of the necro class. Maybe you should take some time to either accept the fact that you have nothing constructive to offer here (which I think is the case), or actually offer something constructive?
  11. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    TumpieBrell wrote:
    yes it was mentioned by a dev that necro/conj would be along the same lines as swash/brig. no set date but at least it's more then they have said in the past year.
  12. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Xil wrote:
    ok.. this thread will probly be erased.. but dude.. you are a noob.
    before RoK necros where just fine, yes it wasen't as easy to blow up parses but the competion fun. dare i say the game was balanced in eof.
    im not the one proclaiming necro mastery .. actually it's you all over the forum claiming to be the best necro alive. posting fake parses, braging about necro crowd control and trying to argue that a spell that parses 10dps for the avreage necro is the END ALL spell.. seriously

    i don't raid my necro anymore, i haven't since early RoK. since it was no fun being blown out of the water and being told i sucked by prior parse peers. that does not mean i dont care about the class, if anything i lookforward to the revamp and can't wait to have some active utillity in raid/groups. after all my necro was my first toon and still one of my favorites.

    PS. there is at least 50 post where summoners are posting what is needed for the class, if you really think that GAME DEVELOPERS lack the creativity to tackle a simple class revamp... you don't have a clue.
  13. ARCHIVED-Xil Guest

    Davngr1 wrote:
    Did you miss the series of posts that detailed out why all those 50 posts were getting ignored?
    And unfortunatley delelopers and designers may have the creativity but unless one of them plays the class much of the basic understanding of the class is lost to them after the initial stages of release development.
    Players move the development of the class because they find ways to use the class that the developer never intended so in a sense they evolve over time. As a designer you absolutley must evolve with the class you are working on and unfortunatley without anyone at SOE that plays Necro specifically their is no evolution of thought about that class.
    We can clearly see this with the development of the new Armor which (even the necro specific items) does not act as an upgrade to many of the basic functions of the necro class. Mods for spells that are mainly fluff? AA's that really don't enhance the correct attributes? Pet modifications that reduce pet cast/recast but do nothing for the Necro's recovery (big difference between Necro and Conjy that is overlooked, we need quite a bit more recovery mods and damage procs to be successful)
    And you never shoulda stopped raiding with the Necro. But I understand now why you seem to be confused about certain aspects of the class.
    And for the last time no one suggested Darkness was a source of DPS by itself. It's not. It offers almost nothing alone because not only does it dispell with damage but the damage is terrible to begin with. But the reason you should always use it is because it casts in less than a second, it procs Lich, it Procs POTM, it Procs all gear damage procs (Hood of Dark Dealings, Praetor's Guard, Fabled Epic, ect...), and the vast majority of our sustained DPS comes from those procs. To sustain a decent amount of DPS Necro absolutley must use all Proc effects to their utmost potential at all times. And without Darkness in the chain you lose one of your main quick cast hostile spells. And as any Necro worth a damn on the parse will agree "If you are waiting for something to refreash you are doing it wrong"
    And seriously you think Slamhammer was a fake parse? Mythical necro's do DOUBLE that amount of DPS on that encounter. And the other Parse was a "MERGED" parse where all fights lasting less than 30 seconds where removed. I didn't leave in the 10 to 15k DPS 1^ ecnounters right before slamhammer either because they were once again less than 30 seconds long.
    Because Summoners have no burst damage, less than 30 seconds is not enough time to build up DoT ticks. So save yer fake parse BS. Any Necro specd properly with proper gear can see 5k+ on the parse regularly (without a mythical). The problem is it's not quite regular enough. And even with a Mythical on raids Necro gets stuck at a DPS cap without the full time support of 3 other classes.
    It's not that we can't hit the top of the parse. It's that it costs the raid too much for us to do so. And we give nothing but that DPS back for such a large cost.
  14. ARCHIVED-Minraja Guest

    I have been reading several posts of yours, through several threads Xil. I'm not calling you a liar but you post anon. If you want people to start taking you seriously, please post your ingame name and open your profile and AA setup on eq2players. Otherwise you have as much credibility as everyone else that posts anon.

    You are not the first one to come here and try to post in a contructive manner. There have been many people like you over the past two years and guesse what? They were ignored. What makes you think that any of the devs will listen to you this time around? Fact is, Aer(whatever) will "fix" us when HE decides to. No amount of being un/constructive will change this.
  15. ARCHIVED-Mewse Guest

    Draz, excuse me, but explain to me why someone should be required to pay the extra 5$/month so they can create a full profile for the convenience of your viewing. If Xil doesn't chose to do so (I certainly have not - SOE gets enough of my money) then don't hold it against him. I take everyones post "seriously" even if they are clearly misunderstanding something or acting like a troll. I don't go jumping to view every profile there is. If you think anon posts are not credible then don't read them. But please don't bash people who choose to save a few bucks.
    But if it really bugs you that much - Mewse is my Inquisitor. Simeon is my necromancer. You won't find much detail there. Like I said - I don't pay SOE anything extra.
  16. ARCHIVED-Minraja Guest

    Mewse wrote:
    Simeon of unrest in inner circle? If so, I was able to access your profile and view your gear without even logging in. I only had to login to see your AA profile. I only pay 1 dollar extra for that not 5. So in the end you don't pay for anything for that info, I do. But if I were to go around telling people I can parse 8-10k in single groups I would feel obligated to prove that I atleast have gear that can attain those numbers. I don't think that is asking too much.
  17. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Xil wrote:
    what you totaly fail to grasp is that you are controdicting yourself.... in one post you ask for necro to be beefed up and in another you make necros out to be gods. get a clue dude. the class needs a new direction, to make necros more fun and to make raids more fun.
    a second heavy debuff class is desperately needed and given the drastic mutation sumomners underwent, they are a shoe-in.
  18. ARCHIVED-Xil Guest

    Drazala@Lucan DLere wrote:
    Well posting annon just kinda of happened. This was a Vanguard account before it was an EQ2 account and I never had the option to select a character when I joined the EQ2 boards.
    And unfortunately there is no one now. No threads made it to sticky because they included negative and less than constructive posting. If people had honestly been trying to post constructively here for 2 years you'd think a couple of them would have made it to sticky by now. But as we can clearly see there is no thread for Necro feedback stickied to the top of the forum that isn't ages old and should be deleted.
    And no it's not about getting them to change Necro right now. It's about making sure they have all the information from actual Necros, they can get their hands on "constructively" so that when the change comes they do not over look the things we take for granted but they might miss do to lack of hands on involvement with the class. Because you and I both know Necro and Conjuror are not the same and a blanket fix for both (which SOE would likely apply cause it's cheaper) would do nothing for Necro.
    They need to know which spells we are using the most. They need to know which AA's we are using and why or why not. They need to know how we solo. They need to know we group. They need to know how we are using AA's and Gear to DPS effectively. They need to know what it takes for a Necro to function on a raid. They need to know everything about how we play the class (and by we I mean all of us not just Dav and Scio), and they need it before they attempt to design a fix for a class that no developer at SOE plays.
    It has nothing to do with whether or not they should listen to me personally. They need to hear from all of us willing to take the time and speak. And it needs to be in a format that is uniform, constructive, and positive. I'm just giving them what was asked for. (mind you the quote got deleted in this thread)
  19. ARCHIVED-Trensharo-EQ Guest

    Sorry, wrong thread. I meant to post in another thread and must have clicked reply on the wrong tab :( :(
  20. ARCHIVED-StaticLex Guest

    Well this is refreshing to see necros are in the toilet also. lol I was a little bit worried that maybe just conjurors were the ones being crapped on.
    Anyway, I guess I'm simply here to chime in with the folks that say summoners need some massive improvement. I know from playing a conjuror it seems like glaring reasons NOT to pick a summoner class for a group grow everyday. From losing a pet and consequently 50%+ of your damage to any stupid little AE to having mediocre damage capability to being utterly worthless when out of power (compared to basically any melee who sits there and wails away for free with their haste items + double attack). I mean it is remarkably sad when I stop, think, and realize that if I played some other class and I was putting together a group.. knowing what I know about conjurors there is simply no way I'd invite one that didn't have the mythic weapon and even then I'd look for a wizard or warlock first.
    Oh well, I am sure there has been enough doomsaying in this thread already. Cross your fingers for soe to throw you a bone sometime in 2010 I guess.

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