Underpowered class?

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by ARCHIVED-Vorgier, Oct 12, 2008.

  1. ARCHIVED-Vorgier Guest

    Currently I'm a 76 necromancer, and I love the class. But it seems that the class is really underpowered.
    I'm not sure if anyone else thinks so, but necromancers could really use some boosts on their DPS. The only thing I've seen where necromancers shine is soloing and or long boss fights. Other then that, in a regular group, they don't do squat.

    Am I the only one here that thinks this, or do necromancers really need more power?
  2. ARCHIVED-Jasuo Guest

    Yes, necros are underpowered compared to the other mages, yes it's been begged and pleaded a few times via forums and pm, and no there is no response or care. If played right you can squeeze out respectable numbers but when it comes down to who sits out it'll usually be the necro if there's someone else available who shells out more utility along with higher dps.
  3. ARCHIVED-StPatrick Guest

    It all depends - in groups necros like gnomes with huge sticks - before they can lift it up and beat, the enemy is dead :p But on other hand, I have yet to see another class with soloing capability. And that's what I like in Necros. When I play necro, I play 99% of time solo, when I want grouping, I either call friends, start my own group or switch to dirge :p

    Adding more grouping power will be nice, but knowing that there is a price for everything, I guess Necro's soloing powers will be nerfed then. And that's exactly what I, presonally, do not want. And I think there are many necros that would not welcome such change either. Necro has been always, since EQI, the soloing power and changing this class drastically (e.g. turn it to be group-alike and less solo-ninja) will ruin so many, uhmm... strategies? of so many people (IMHO), including myself, that SoE doesn't even want to think about it. Again, this is IMHO :)
  4. ARCHIVED-Mewse Guest

    Before RoK the necromancer was a "must have" dps class for raids. It always was a great solo class. Since RoK the summoner classes have both been nerfed hard. Not intentionally, but the +spell dmg and +haste gear doesn't affect our pets (which used to be 40% of our damage output). With higher dps from other classes fights are often shorter in groups (not raids) so we have less time to land our dots. Our pet dmg output is not improved any due to AA's or gear in RoK. So, summoners have fallen behind in the dps curve. We are 3rd rate dps'ers now with little or no utility. We aren't even needed for our hearts/shards nowadays. On a recent raid my sole job was to click statues and harvest shinies while rezzing characters that died so the healers weren't distracted from healing. My dps and the dps of the conjurer were not missed. Only once did I get called on for hearts.

    I am pretty frustrated. As much as I love the necro class I have recently finished leveling my Inquisitor to 80 and my Troubador to 70 (Hi, Sciomir!). I think those two classes will be in higher demand for groups and raids. I can only hope that the new expansion with the new AA lines will fix summoners but I am not holding my breath. Troubadors, Inquisitors and Summoners don't seem to be held in high regard by SOE's development team. I guess I just like underdogs
  5. ARCHIVED-eidand Guest

    Necros are indeed a very goodf soloing class. That's about it. We do have some utility in a raid, not much though. As far as groups are concerned we're doing really really bad. The fights do not last enough for to build any dps.

    I do hope SOE will give us a remake, but then the necro community has been asking for one for years. the result was nil.
  6. ARCHIVED-Dharkone Guest

    We're a decent solo class now... not the best. Actually we aren't the best in anything anymore. I just wished we got some utility so we really could make a difference raids (and groups). For me personally raiding is the most important. And for this purpose necros are useless. There are other classes who are better at dps, debuff, power regen.... so necro are not prefered in a raid setup. Lotsa HC guilds don't even use a necro. Can't blame them...
  7. ARCHIVED-Sicura Guest

    You guys seem to be underestimating Necros quite a lot. They are an extremely powerful class, played correctly. Soloing? We are number 1-2, competing with the Coercers out there. Tainted heals and the end of the wisdom line make us nearly indestructible, should you know how to control your aggro. Raids? We can be indispensable, again, if played right. If you don't know how to shell out the most dps you can and be within the top 5, (I personally parse amoung the top 3 on every named fight, unless death takes me which isnt all that frequently with feign death), then do something else useful. Such as healing those who drop low, hearts, rezzes, hell even a feign death can prevent a wipe. A well timed lifeburn can push a mob to death on the verge of a failing attempt. Groups however, are more difficult. The burst dps is generally too high for us to really get our dps rolling. So again, do something else useful. Charm an undead if the tank pulls a couple too many, heals to the other mages or tank if they are low, hearts, rezzes and feign deaths are all key utilities. So yea, Necros might have some issues, but every class has them. If you really think necros are SOOO underpowered, perhaps you just have more to learn about your class. Sicura 80 Necro on Nektulos (PS - Look at the changes coming in TSO, there's a huge boost to our dps coming, so quite whining ;) )
  8. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Sicura wrote:
    feel free to post your huge zone wide parses and then please teach us all how to play.
  9. ARCHIVED-Mewse Guest

    Don't be too harsh on Sicura. He makes a good point - we do have some nice utility. The problem is that the utility is not nice enough compared to what other classes can do.
    There was a time when everyone missed having a necro in the raid. First there was the dps - not as good as a wizard or assassin but better than just about everyone else. There was the utility - how many feign death classes come with a built in rezz? Hearts were a major source of power regen. Pets were needed for pulling from time to time and few classes had them. And of course there were many times when the necro's well timed transfer life saved a MT (and thereby the raid). Since RoK there are enough other options out there that necro's are often assigned the role of clicking switches or harvesting shinies (a critical roll in VP raids, btw, but not the traditional role we are used to pre-ROK). The utility is still there. Its just that other classes now have that utility as well (much of that due to tinkering tradeskill and ROK gear).
    Grouping for necro's has always been an issue. There is just not enough time in most group fights for our DOTs to build up much dps. Frankly, for group fights the scout pet is the best one available, IMO. But most necro's spec AA's for tank and mage pet for solo/raid. Its too bad you can only have one active AA mirror. It would be nice to be able to save all three profiles. The mage pet is ok for grouping but much of its dps is encounter AOE. With few AOE fights anymore a lot of that dps goes to waste in groups.
  10. ARCHIVED-colonel75thr Guest

    I have always refered to us as the Swiss Army Class. We can do it all, dps, heal, rez, utility.. What other class does that and does it well? None.
  11. ARCHIVED-hellfire Guest

    wow so many necro that think their class is fine and dandy ....

    /sigh
  12. ARCHIVED-Warpig Guest

    Yes Necros can do many things, mine is officially retired at lvl 80, my Guardian is lvl 77 and climbing.
    At least I have a place in most every group now.
  13. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Mewse wrote:
    sicura was the one calling the class whiners... fact is coercer at their worst in DoF could still #1 mez #2 mana buffs # had the best hate buff in game, and these made them at least uselfull. now look at summoners in RoK #1 shards #2 sigh no number two...

    yea solo is cool but unless you log into a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME to solo.. it's really not that great.
  14. ARCHIVED-Sicura Guest

    You want parses? ok.

    Example 1: Top 5 parsers. (While giving out hearts and rezzes all throughout zone *GASP* it's possible people.)
    Name DPS % (32:37)
    Baxter 2748 10%
    Stefani 2361 8%
    Jonlar 2238 8%
    Vlaz 2066 7%
    Sicura 1835 7%


    Example 2: Lower on List, but higher dps (gasp! a necro over 2k on a raid??? no way! While giving out hearts, rezzes, and dying from lifeburn?? Holy crap!!)

    Name DPS % (23:47)
    Sareth 3577 11%
    Alando 2783 8%
    Baxter 2768 8%
    Tunes 2614 8%
    Tithius 2541 8%
    Dragonfear 2404 7%
    Stefani 2347 7%
    Sicura 2294 7%


    So there you go Davngr1, your parses. So yes, I suppose I'm saying if you can't do around that on a raid, while utulizing your utility, then perhaps you do have something mroe to learn about playing a Necro. And i meant stop whining for now, until we see the changes coming to us in TSO. If you havent read them yet, perhaps you should also go check that out They will definitely be pumping us up.
    Also Davngr1, A sure fire way of getting yourself a group? MAKE the group, instead of sitting LFG and waiting to be invited. Trust me works. Can't be kicked with you are the leader ;)

    Sicura
    80 Necro on Nektulos
  15. ARCHIVED-cyric22 Guest

    Sicura wrote:
    So tunes is a troub and beat you on the parse. thank you for illustrating Davngr1j's point. 2k zw on a raid parse? lolz.
    I used to drag my necro to VS to log to him to hand out hearts pre raid then switch back to my templar. we routinely do it without hearts or shards now. leave the rezzing to dirges (cept maybe on venril).
    I hope you're right about the xpac. I've looked at the aa's, gear and dev's post that identifies there is a problem with necros (but there is no fix coming with xpac) and remain doubtful that at release much will have changed.
    Why get a group for vaults when a necro can solo it ><
  16. ARCHIVED-AKAKIARulz Guest

    Actually, i'd love to see a red name in here...

    My necro's just **** sitting in my roster since I got him his fabled epic. A wizard's a FAR better soloer*my opinion* and It just feels **** as a necro in a group. Hearts don't mean diddly squat anymore. We're there for FD in case of a wipe, or rezzes. Kinda lame....
  17. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    Sicura wrote:
    heh necro's are fine in casual raid forces(like your own) but once other classes hit 100% crit and the necro is still at 50% to 60% crit he fails, and the fact that he offers no other dps(unlike chanters/bards) makes him a liability ... im sure i could get a slot in a raid guild as a mascot.. but i rather not.
    before you call posters whiners you need to know why they are as you call it *whining*, you obiously don't know.
  18. ARCHIVED-Davngr1 Guest

    AKAKIARulz wrote:
    RED names don't even click on the necro forum, so to concider them clicking on a tread is just crazy! =p
  19. ARCHIVED-HealerMathias Guest

    No one working at SOE plays a summoner let alone knows the first thing about them beyond the fact that they have pets and they aren't that great.
  20. ARCHIVED-Compas Guest

    Thats not true there is at least one developer who plays a Conjurer...... well its at least a summoner class. Ultimatly The problem is the limit on personnnel in a raid with a precious 24 slots to fill that leaves very little room for the less useful classes especially when several classes take up multiple spots due to be so over powered, over effective or multi-useful. I.E. The bard classes the enchanter classes to name two. Raids with limited persnnel need to squeeze every little bit of effiencey and effecitveness out of the people at hand the dirge along makes the necromancer obsolete with rezes, he personal dps pluse raid with chime of blaed makes them leave the necro in the dust for dps they bring toms of buffs and power regen and percusion of stones will prevent more damage then a necro will heal for a whole zone. Then if you focus on any specifc job a summoner does it can be easily replicated with a tinkered item or just done better by anothrr class. Bringing a summoner on a raid is basically handicaping a raidforce.
    Realiscially I can parse 3.5 to 4.5 k in shard of hate with my necro but that puts me at best at 7 or 8 on the parse when I can parse 3 to 3.2 with my troubador and do raidwide POTM which will greatly provide mroe damange then all my lifeburns over a evening, and all the added goodies a troubabdor brings who would you rather have long. A wizard in the same spot as my Necro will parse 5 to 7 k an assaasin will parse 6 to 10 k so why bring any summoenr along wherne you can bring a class that provided more dps or better utility. Just common sence prevailing means an efficient and well organized raid force has waisted a very precious spot on a summoner so why do it?(sorry for the wall of text)
    Anjez / Compas
    80 Troubador/ 80 Necromancer
    Torment Rising
    Unrest

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