You sound like you seriously suck at this game if you think dirges are being outparsed by healers and tanks... BAD dirges might be outparsed by excellent tanks and healers, but ones who know what they're doing have no issue soloing, have no issue keeping up on the parse on raids. I know nothing of PVP cuz its so totally broken in this game I don't bother. But honestly, all this post screams is "I SUCK AT DIRGE" ... and that's ok. I suck at assassin, thats why i don't play one anymore.
He just said he was getting top DPS parses while in one of the best raiding guilds in the entire game. Pretty confident that refutes the 'bad DPS players get out parsed by a really good dirge' idea. Furthermore if the problem is DPS several classes besides dirges would be having the EXACT same problem in the same quantity if not more so.
I was talking about in general in that sentence. Most dirges did not parse top 3 in TSO. Top 6 ot 7 was much more common for an average TSO and SF dirge though. Any T1 DPS class that could not get top 6 was considered bad. There is an inherent double standard going on here the way high parsing dirges were hated on. Tanks and Healers sometimes get top 6 and nobody seems to care. Why is that?
I've never seen a healer get that high unless it was some sort of goofy/atypical fight and only seen fighters ranking that high regularly with recklessness, where they are considered quite squishy and can't do their regular job, tanking, at all. Key word 'sometimes', dirges were parsing top 6 frequently while also performing the duties of a top utility class. I don't see why you are so intent on ignoring the frequency. Any class could do a crazy high parse in the right conditions. the problem was dirges were parsing unacceptably high in MOST conditions. In any event this whole debate is moot. They aren't going to 'un-nerf' the mythical and you aren't going to reach your dream of being a high DPS'ing top utility class. If that did happen and indicated it was staying that way for the long term, the game would be flooded with dirges.
Was the game ever flooded with dirges? What you say does not make any sense at all. The original dirge mythical proc was around for years and at no point in RoK, TSO, or SF were dirges really plentiful. Do you know why that is? It because that proc was not over powered. Dirges were simply a solid class among many other solid classes at the time. The nerfing of the original dirge myth was completely unjustified.
In RoK and even TSO, it was fairly balanced. Dirges didn't have any very powerful attacks and crit/double attack were still low enough that it wasn't that unbalanced. SF came along and capped crit and double attack and it started to become more noticable. It wasn't that ridiculous, but it was noticable how much we gained from that one proc alone, especially combined with VC. Then DoV uncapped double attack, making it multiattack, and it became a big enough problem that it needed to be addressed. Now, we have 600-1000 MA, 100% flurry (with procs) and 100% aoe auto. It would be absolutely insane how much that one proc alone would do for us now. It's not going to happen. At all. One thing I would like to see however is a combat mastery temp buff given to actual utility classes, dirge or coercer ideally. Or as someone else mentioned, stances for the bards. Maybe a group buff stance, a self offensive stance, and a self defensive stance. These are realistic things to ask for.
This conversation is pointless if you refuse to acknowledge context. The problem reached its height before the nerf and would have only grew afterward. If they did it NOW, not in a time where things were massively different, it would be a much bigger problem. If you are insistent on basing your ideas on some time way back when it didn't seem 'that bad' you are never going to understand why you are wrong. Anyone who knows how much that boosts DPS knows that would give dirges a MASSIVE boost in DPS, not just a slight tweak.
Even today, if your grp setup is almost perfect, you can get up to the top5s (well consider, others are pretty bad )
I don't play a dirge anymore because having a good dps class is more important than having a good dirge. And I betrayed my dirge to troub because they had an OP blue aoe, and I can't betray back yet because I use my troub in raids on some nights. Bards and chanters could use a dps boost because of how ******** healer DPS has gotten but it's really not a big deal.
If there is a dirge shortage it's because most raid rosters ideally have 3. There isn't another class that is in that much demand. They're in demand because they're a strong class that brings a lot of utility with respectable dps. They're fine.
If having a good DPS class is more important than having a good dirge then something is fundamentally wrong here with the way the scout classes are balanced. There is something wrong with balance when skilled players shun certain classes. It should not matter what the class role is when it comes to the skilled player picking a class. It should be equally advantageous for someone to be a dirge or a beastlord. At least you agree there is a problem here and bard DPS needs to be increased though we disagree on the solution to do it. It is a start.
The problem on why theres a general shortage of BARDS, not just dirges is because the vast majority of players don't like seeing everyone else on top of the parse throwing out big numbers, while being stuck towards the low middle to bottom of the parse. Too many people base "quality" on the DPS output of a class, with no regard to the fact that a WELL PLAYED bard may only show 200K dps in a group, but is pushing 4-500K, thats actually going into the actual DPS classes parses because of buffs. You suck at dirge, fine, I don't play my dirge because I find it boring, and not nearly as fun as my troub, but I see plenty of well played dirges out and about that throw down some very respectable DPS while maintaining their utility. Your a bard, your utility FIRST, DPS second, but if you suck at either job your bringing your group/raid down. You should never EXPECT T1 DPS, tho it will happen every now and again, you should typically be in the middle of the parse, above most of the healers and fighters, and below most of the other scouts/mages. To expect more then that your playing the wrong class.
Context? I don't think you understand what that means. The context is that healers and tanks are parsing crazy numbers right now and still filling their primary roles. Yes, tanks are tanking in reckless stance too. Seen pick up raids where the tank did the whole thing in reckless stance. Can dirges DPS and still fill their primary role? Not that I have seen. The point is that Dirges DO need a large boost in DPS and bringing back the old dirge mythical would be a good way of doing that. The only reason this conversation has become pointless is because you have run out of excuses. You won't even acknowledge that there is more to the game than just raiding as well. Most players don't even bother with raiding because of nonsense like this. What incentive is there for the non-raider to play a dirge? At this point none until SoE addresses the overall class's weakness.
Yes, dirges CAN dps while fulfilling their primary role of utility, just as good healers can DPS while fulfilling their primary role of healing, some are just able to do it alot easier then others. The point of playing a dirge, in or out of raiding, is the same as playing any other class, because you enjoy it, if that is lost on you, then you need to reevaluate why you even bother to log in.
/shrug.. not in high end guild..we raid casual and our top dirge does around 400-500k..i don't make my dirges rez but they buff well all my dps healers hit 300kish and are still below the dirge.. you really sound like you want to be a dirge that can top assassins/BL/Rangers/wizzie/lock/summoners..point is.. if you good and evenly geared with those.. you should always be below them..they don't bring a whole lot to the table.. they bring some.. not as much as you..I would say just quit asking.. not happening or make ur self a t1 dps and try to find a spot with that lol
Un-nerf, LOL, the only way that will happen is when all other classes are nerfed to bring them down a bit, that is called balancing. Bring back CoB with its interrupts and the Brigands Lightning reflexes. Lots of other classes that were nerfed too, soon we'll all be the same thing with different titles, healers can dps so can dps'ers heal please? BTW. Troubs have their jcap immunity removed so wheres the dirge gravitas immunity removal?
I love that you trash me saying I don't know what context means, then provide an example with lack of context. Fighter tanked a PUR in recklessness. Okay so what was his equipment? Group make up? What zone was it? What mobs? Was it a high end raid or one that pretty much every guild that has tried has steamrolled? Unless it was a CoE HM (which it wasn't) there isn't much of a problem. You can't base balance on relatively trivial encounters. Yes. Only time I have seen them not be able to do this is when it is a hard fight. Rezzing, possibly doing scripts. Basically any scenario where a dirge can't do their full DPS, neither can healers and fighters can't tank in recklessness either. Even IF dirges need a DPS boost it would make them do insanely more DPS if the myth got 'un-nerfed' as we have illustrated and proved many times in this very thread, Performance in the past is not indicative of what it would be now since MUCH has changed since then. If you refuse to acknowledge this context, that the myth buff would be much more powerful now than it was in the past do to compounding factors that did not exist in the past, the conversation is pointless. We don't need any more 'excuses' this is more than enough. Yes I am well known for saying grouping and soloing don't even exist in EQ2, you got me there.
Just means you are a Primary Raider, nothing wrong with that just do keep in mind that there have to be 3 maintained playstyles. Solo: Means 1 person not 1 Person... and merc Heroic: Means 6 people, maybe can get by with 1 merc. Raid: Means 12-24 people mercs should never survive more than 5 seconds here.
