Uber Summoner DPS

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Vogie, Aug 8, 2016.

  1. Ashandra Well-Known Member

    In summoner over the years dps swarms have been what kept us in the game class defining ability nerf those so hard the class is screwed its basic you can come on the thread and post what ever you like in a few months no one will be left playing them with this stuff , I know mine will be shelved after so many years of playing summoner it will be shelved like blords were such a waste and yeah I have been up the top of parse through several expacs not just this one but my swarms stats have always matched mine this is way dif.
  2. Dotuming Active Member

    Well considering i haven't changed any gear from last week to today and wasn't using the mount since it was not adding any ab mod I am going by just the dps numbers compared to last weeks raids.

    As far as communion not doing more than FA? Uhhh you best check again...I would be happy to get with you and compare and go through our parses or heck id even send you my log file for that matter. Shoot me a tell sometime tomorrow if you want.
    Ratitz likes this.
  3. Jerpa Member

    Update May 10
    Dumbfire pets will now benefit from group buffs, including resolve buffs. Many dumbfire pets have had their abilities adjusted down to compensate for the increased stats.
    Primary and dumbfire pets will now share the caster's Fervor stat.

    July 7
    Reduced the amount of benefit swarm pets gain from potency, crit bonus, and fervor buffs.
    (This was told it was due to some grp buffs applying in strange ways)

    August 16
    Corrected an issue that prevented potency, crit bonus and fervor buff reduction from applying to many swarm pets.

    And now we dont even get fully shared stats with our pets anymore, which is just stupid. If I use a charm with a personal fervor buff it should effect everything i cast. If i use a charm with a potency effect it should share with everything i cast. If someone in my grp cast a buff it should effect everything i cast. What is the reason to not having fully shared stats with pets all of a sudden?
    Anaranj likes this.
  4. Anaranj Member

    Completely true. Yesterday I got the same result.
    Laiina likes this.
  5. Estal Well-Known Member

    We all know what the real problem is, the dev team is simply too small to do any real internal testing before pushing stuff to live.

    Stay tuned for three more eventual fixes that will no doubt break something else.
  6. Alexae New Member

    The nerf is as bad as I feared. Swarm pets have gone from spots in my first 5 down to the "and others" at the bottom 1%. Good job neutering my class defining abilities. Daybreak should perhaps try not to be so ham handed with their "balancing" when their game is already hemorrhaging players.
  7. Doomravin Well-Known Member

    Taking a massive chunk of out of the class to reduce the very top raider's dps.......
    Oh dear
  8. Azian Well-Known Member

    In my opinion, this isn't really accurate. Yes, huge parses make headlines on these forums but frankly I'm not sure the dev team pays any attention to that stuff. I think it's safe to say they have access to much more data than any of us do about dps output of the various classes. I knew summoners were strong based upon the fact that I could take my conj with only average gear and be VERY competitive with other T1s who had significantly better gear. (Those players often had more time in on their classes than I did on the summoner as well.)

    As often seems to happen though, I just think they took the correction quite a bit too far. Completely neutering the dumbfires like they did is over the top. That always seems to be the way though. Sledge hammers get used when a paring knife would do.
    Meneltel and Alexae like this.
  9. Veta Well-Known Member

    Totes checked again. Checked multiple times. Here is a test run for you: http://imgur.com/cZeYabc
    Important Notes:
    Communion 2 second cast time, 60second reuse, 0.25sec recovery at cap, and 8 sec duration
    Fiery Annihilation 0.5second cast time, 4second reuse, 0.25 recovery, 12sec duration (9.6 with troub) exponential increasing ticks every 1.5secs (1.2with troub). Fiery Annihilation has no variance, the only way to actually change the damage is through debuffs, stat changing, etc.

    So numbers to note:
    Communion Sorc dmg: 302,658,335 + 193,424 auto attack damage
    Communion Scout dmg: 229, 637,421 + 200,277 auto attack damage
    Communion Tank dmg: 101,849,655 (had to take this number from a previous trial since it went AWOL in that one, I can post that trial if needed too) + 188,928 auto attack damage

    Fiery Annihilation damage:88,129,887 I left the ability on for 4 seconds (after I let the AoM prestige tree drop, which means Communion got benefits from it and FA did not) then stopped the parse. So you are only seeing initial hit + few ticks. Casting Fiery Annihilation up every time is more efficient than letting it tick through.

    So reuse/recast * number of damage will give you the number of damage from fiery annihilation throughout out a communion recast period. 60/4.75 (4sec recast + .5cast + .25recovery) = 12 (was 12.63 but used whole number because you cannot cast 12.63 or 13 times) * 88,129,887 = 1,057,558,644dmg (FA) vs 634,728,040 (Communion). It would take 2 extra targets in the fight for communion to deal more damage than Fiery Annihilation, because of Sorcerer pet damage. So yes, in a 1:1 cast ratio, communion will be better; however, over the course of a parse it will not be.

    Basing your assessment off class abilities with hammer resets isn't good for the future of the class; which is why people say that scouts without ethereals versus scouts with ethereals are game breaking. You wanted me to look over parses that are skewed by the results of hammers and the possibility of you using charms for burst damage on incoming. Communion can be cast up to 3 times during the first minute of a pull (initial cast + reset cast which will give fervor to the previous pets still up + reset at the 30second mark). You have to take into consideration that the hammer at some point might become obsolete; therefore, think about the class in it's current condition without hammer/stat spiked skewed parses.
    Ratitz likes this.
  10. Mrmacky Active Member

    Not to mention that other classes werent that far behind.. or could still compete with summoners. Then you cripple one class. If there was a nerf that was needed it was to all classes as a whole based on stat inflation. Not trying to make all the storm troopers on the forums happy
  11. Veta Well-Known Member

  12. Journey Member

    People from Revelations defending the nerf. People from Revelations know more about the game than you. /end thread
  13. Dotuming Active Member

    You are correct. I was basing my numbers off of a toon with the hammer. I was not seeing any difference really so i chalked it up to over enthusiastic class defending.

    Since then I have done testing on 4 different conjies with varying levels of gear with the 4th one on the race to trak server.

    It seems the further back you go gear wise the more this change impacts you. I failed to take this into consideration and after going over logs from those tests it seems that this is a bugged patch. I mean the furthest back you go on the Race server swarms did less than 1 cast of FA or CB. Im not talking about 1 swarm pet cast, im talking about all of them...combined. I understand there is a -60 fervor standard on summoners right off the bat on that server, but looking at things from all angles, they need to take a look at this patch. If they keep it this way they are hurting those with the least amount of gear.

    I was wrong. They need to take a very hard look at the numbers and if this is what they were after, i can completely understand the outrage here.
    Brightlyz likes this.
  14. Veta Well-Known Member

    Guy with forum name made on Sunday and won't say who he is keeps posting. There must be a reason you try to remain hidden. /thread
  15. Journey Member

    Who I am has nothing to do with what I am, which is right. I don't understand why people are complaining about a nerf when people that clearly know more about the game than them are defending it. Truth be told though, my main account can't exactly log into these forums anymore. Lets just say too much honesty and realism got to the mods. As you can tell from my posts on this topic, honesty and realism are the only things I post.
  16. Azian Well-Known Member

    Well, here is some honesty and realism for you then...your posts have added absolutely nothing of value to this thread. Every single one of them could be removed and the thread would not have been diminished in any way. You keep regurgitating the same tired tripe about the dummy tests posted by Ratitz. Those tests and his posts added value and further the discussion. Even those of us who have pointed out concerns with the tests agree that he was adding value. You on the other hand, have not. You clearly have an axe to grind on the issue.

    As an aside, you might actually see that one of the actual summoners from Rev has posted multiple times in this thread with concerns about the nerfs also supported by actual numbers. You know, one of those "people that clearly know more about the game" you keep mentioning.

    I have a strong suspicion your main account can't log in here for reasons other than your "honesty and realism."
    Ratitz likes this.
  17. Ratitz Active Member

    Hey leave my fanboy alone. At least someone is actively agreeing with me! /sarcasm off
    On another note, yea who exactly are you. I'm curious.
    Azian likes this.
  18. Ratitz Active Member

    In my recent testing experience, ill have to agree with veta. Over the course of longer fights, my fiery annihilation (without hammer) will end up doing considerably more damage than communion. During spike fights, however, where the fight is less than 20 seconds, i find my self casting FA twice, maybe 3 times. One cast of communion will obviously beat this, because it does more damage with a 1:<5 ratio (thats what ive found, 1 communion does damage equal to about 5 casts of FA). But i can do 1 cast of communion a minute, and i can cast FA 15 times in one minute, max. if i dont buff for communion, this means that FA will do 3 times the damage of communion in a given minute, if i max prioritize FA.
    Of course its not possible to prioritize FA that much and still maintain solid dps, so ill adjust the number to about 2.1 times the damage of communion on a ratio of 1:8 casts (based on doing my normal rotation, except not casting spellbind or world ablaze, to prevent potency skewing, over the course of 2 minute. casted communion. twice, and fiery annihilation 16 times)
    This testing is done without a hammer, so i think it gives a more accurate representation of how the abilities are balanced.
    [IMG]Fiery Annihilation did 7.5m dps (total damage 897m).
    Communion (combined) did 3,5m dps (total damage ~420m)
    7.5/3.5=2.14x the amount of dps.
    Fiery Annihilation wins

    Edit: i did this test with no buffs on, no mount equipped. forgive the low parse, i just wanted to limit the number of abilities on the parse. Less meaningless **** to worry about.
  19. Laiina Well-Known Member

    I don't base my overall dps on burst - Under perfect conditions against ToT non-named raid mobs I have hit over 700 million - but sustained dps on Zek named is considerably less - in the 200 to 250 range. In those fight Unda is much less of a factor in the overall dps. Right now my Ability Mod is about 1/2 what it should be, but the relative positions of spell dps would not change that much - and on my last group, Ykesha's Vengeance did more damage than 2 of my swarm pets.
  20. Journey Member

    Not a fanboy, just realistic. I know enough to listen to the people that know what they are talking about. This is why some people believe a priest or politician and their advice on climate change, instead of actual climate scientists. You want advice on something, go to the people that study it on a regular basis.