Uber Summoner DPS

Discussion in 'Mages' started by Vogie, Aug 8, 2016.

  1. Mrmacky Active Member

    Lets do it.. then after we can open the OP ranger thread and OP assassin thread followed by warlock and wizard.. and place everyone in the exact same spot except less!
    Ashandra likes this.
  2. Ashandra Well-Known Member

    Lets do it ill bring a fan club to gang up on them , I have dabbled in those classes that must make me an expert and give me a pass to quote ppl and gob off.
  3. Rondo9 Active Member

    Lets talk about fixing Wizards....
    DoomDrake likes this.
  4. Cefur Member

    Why is it that subpar players call for nerfs because they. well, suck at the class they are playing? Riddle me this, Batman.
  5. Lithinor Member

    lol far from it arieva. i can't say i blame you for not remembering me, my first raid with you was such a circus i didn't bother and ended up with rawr. you are pretty self centered to think anything more than an easy jab at you is stalking, if anything i was pointing out how sykle doesn't actually seem to mind dealing with people like you and is putting himself in the situation. 1 button faceroll? that's hilarious
  6. Ratitz Active Member

    There is no Sykle. He died.

    On another note, I'm curious as to how much longer this thread can possibly go on.
  7. Genghes Active Member

    Fatality was ...... Fatalitied..... Sad day in the world of norath
    Ratitz likes this.
  8. Ratza Well-Known Member

    Til the end of time if you are a necro cause you can summon the dead or keep it alive. ;)
  9. sycla Active Member

    you should work on getting that stick out of your #$%^& Alfred
  10. Entropy Well-Known Member

    I see you got the hint that he was referring to you. Yes, you, the guy fumbling all over the forums and crying for retribution nerfs because you are unable to accept the reasoning behind why your class was rebalanced.

    Please try to adhere to forum conduct policies. We prefer threads to stay on track, civil, and productive.
    DoomDrake and Ratitz like this.
  11. sycla Active Member

    you assume
    assume much?
  12. Ratitz Active Member

    You need 20 seconds to blow your chain? Wow.....
  13. Easiette Member

    I thought id squeeze in a productive, civil and on track post before it inevitably gets locked..

    So i spend the better part of my evening to actually get some numbers to see how our dumbfires compare to some of our other spells.

    Epic training dummy (immortal)
    100% double cast
    no hammer proc
    class cloak
    normal dps AA spec
    single target total damage per single cast

    Dumbfires, our class defining ability set:

    Undead Horde 1 sec cast/ 12 sec duration/ 300 sec reuse/ avg 340m damage

    Blighted Horde 1 sec cast/ 12 sec duration/ 30 sec reuse/ avg 195m damage

    Awaken Grave 1 sec cast/ 6 sec duration/ 30 sec reuse/ avg 55m damage

    So these were our burst damage tools, and with their 30 sec or more reuse lined up perfectly with temps so we usually expect the most out of them

    Compared to some of our normal spells:

    Soulrot 1 sec cast/ 1.5 sec duration/ 1.5 sec reuse/ avg 95m damage

    Lifetap 1 sec cast/ instant damage/ 4.5 sec reuse/ avg 90m damage

    Blood Coil 0.5 sec cast/ 26 sec duration/ 4 sec reuse/ avg 170m damage

    Pandemic 1.5 sec cast/ 7 sec duration/ 4.5 sec reuse/ avg 85m damage

    Vampire Bats 1 sec cast/ 24 sec duration/ 6 sec reuse/ avg 120m damage

    Compared to some AA spells:

    Rot Flesh 0.25 sec cast/ 6 sec duration/ avg 450m damage

    Etox 1 sec cast/ 19 sec duration/ avg 250m damage

    -I ignored all legendary+ crit hits from everything except the two horde's since each of their many hits has seperate chance to crit harder so that's in their favor
    -Dumbfires benefitted from the prestige primary attribute to cb and pot conversions so that is also in their favor
    -Blighted horde's damage can be halved without class cloak (although i expect the damage to be less then half)

    After looking at these numbers i think the nerf is even worse then i thought, the fact that i kept my usual spell priorities combining temps with dumbfires made it less apparent.

    Im not sure how this would look on conjurers.

    U may call it whining but i think it is wrong that our class defining spells with high reuse do the same or less damage then Soulrot per cast, and it is outright ridiculous that undead horde with 5 minute reuse does only 3.5 times the damage of soulrot.

    So my very expensive class cloak doesn't really seem worth wearing anymore.

    And why this nerf? because of how new itemization removed the need to wait for debuffs, group wide click efforts or TW and last but not least the introduction of pre click charms (100% pot + 25 fervor) which is forcing dps classes to throw out everything at the start of ever shorter fights, which is no problem for summoners, but near impossible for most other dps because of their class mechanics and lag..

    So yeah, this nerf has been so severe that spell priorities have to change completely, why would a necro without class cloak even consider casting blighted horde instead of soulrot, considering it hardly procs anything and only generates extra lag during raids?.. even vampire bats do more damage :eek:

    "Now" we are broken..

    But i'll be honest, i myself would not be able to find an easier way to balance things out then to do what they did but that doesn't make it right.

    Ashandra likes this.
  14. Kioske Well-Known Member

    We can go back and forth on this all day long, but the fact remains, dumbfires were broken before the fix. I'm not sure if most summoners know how their class spells work, but Undead Horde is an encounter spell. I'd imagine if I cast a single Apocalypse without void on a single epic training dummy, I'd be upset at how low the damage was on it for the recast value too. Apocalypse would be one of my class defining spells.

    I'm wondering if during raid Soulrot is doing much more damage than your dumbfires, because I'd imagine that it isn't. Considering that every time I break down a necro's parse their dumbfires are on there 10 different ways and it all adds up to easily being more damage than anything else they cast. (I'd imagine that you know that Undead Horde is on there 6 different ways when you break down a parse, and I'd imagine that you added it up to get your number.... I'm hoping).

    The other fact remains, if your class is AT or NEAR the top of the parse in any situation, raid or group, why are you saying the class is broken? Because last month you were at the top without trying, and now you actually have to try? I feel the adjustment previously was way out of sorts, we had a necro go from 150 million single target to 375+ Million in a matter of 1 patch. Now he's down to 275-300 Million after the "fix". I don't think that's all that bad, he still gained 125 million from previous parses before the change ever happened. That's why I laugh when I hear summoners complain that they're doing less than before the change.

    This threads needs to just die already.
    Fozziex and -Soteria- like this.
  15. sycla Active Member

    when the "fix " happened we were at 4-5k potency now we have 11k+ potency..get someone who understands math to explain it to you.
    If you have the summoner at the same potency he had on the day of the change he will be doing less than what he was doing..why is that simple thing so hard for you to understand
  16. Entropy Well-Known Member

    Stat levels then and now are irrelevant. Summoners hang just fine with their T1 peers. I am of course assuming equal gear and player skill levels here. There could very well be a lot of derpy people who jumped on FOTM summoners and are now embarrassing themselves because they never really learned the nuances of the class. Not saying that DID happen here, just saying it wouldn't be the first time...
  17. Kioske Well-Known Member

    Glad you can assume what another player's stats were and are based on your own personal experiences. Get someone who understands "Anecdotal Evidence" to explain it to you.

    Right after the dumbfire change, he actually already had a rising tide charm and sent me a screen shot of his potency hitting 20k for the first time. (Because I was jealous and did not have one yet). This was within a week of the change, so I'm not sure how he got there... oh yeah, unless his potency was already above 7-8k when it happened. (By the way, this is anecdotal evidence). Please keep your assumptions to yourself. Also, who is this "We" you speak of? Looking at your character signature, you have 7833% potency, not 11k+.

    As Entropy stated, summoners are doing just fine on the food chain of T1 DPSers, which is why my comment of "This thread needs to die" was said. This argument is a moot point. Summoners are not in a bad place. The sky is not falling. Thank you for your extremely condescending comment though, much appreciated.
  18. Ratitz Active Member

    (03:03) The Forge Golem: 3307483573 Hike-Fatal Followup-2,373,049,485
    Hike | 479535197 assassin with both ethereals and hammer.
    Inuf | 439990995 conjuror with hammer
    Ratit | 415481081 conjuror without hammer
    Cloud | 400616329 a truly exceptional illusionist with RTT items and a cloak
    Devor | 355873590 necromancer without hammer
    Anglo | 190288442 undergeared ranger
    Suade | 170165694 illusionist with cloak
    Skitt | 121804760 brigand
    Fille | 100784779 dirge

    (01:53) Captain Graybeard: 3068856736 Hike-Fatal Followup-1,232,415,937
    Ratit | 406943021
    Cloud | 396880659
    Inuf | 384913863
    Hike | 362348709
    Devor | 351821148
    Anglo | 233734817
    Suade | 129892257
    Mellz | 115079363
    Fille | 95183404

    (02:05) Uigirf the Magician: 3968459308 Ratitzx-Searing Passion-1,215,783,029
    Inuf | 577912952
    Ratit | 560643240
    Hike | 386422074
    Cloud | 382379445
    Devor | 334862167
    Anglo | 264462811
    Suade | 227632047
    Sheph | 181060406
    (that one was a bad pull. ninja pulled, only 3 groups in raid)

    (01:04) Omzzem the Enchanter: 7277083599 Firamas-Draconic Breath-2,948,566,781
    Firam | 1085166192
    Inuf | 827378056
    Hike | 765809068
    Ratit | 748408062
    Cloud | 669396139
    Devor | 499198007
    Marib | 345996787
    Skitt | 299780325
    Sheph | 286824729

    (04:36) Tollen'Eod: 5505854475 Firamas-Claw of Khati Sha-3,168,107,389
    Firam | 828913408
    Inuf | 812431303
    Ratit | 760928857
    Cloud | 538632381
    Hike | 493280517
    Devor | 396472743


    If you find you aren't competing as a summoner to the other t1's in your raid and you are equally geared, you are bad at summoner. There isn't another explanation. I can post HUNDREDS of parses where I, and the other 3 summoners in rawr, the summoners in rev, the summoners that were in fatality, and the summoners in other top guilds (the people that the content and classes are balanced around) that show that they can compete.
    The only viable exception is a beastlord with a hammer.
    Summoners are balanced. This thread needs to be gone.
    Kraeref, Kioske and Jrel like this.
  19. Avahlynn Well-Known Member

    ...they balance classes and content around only top guilds?
  20. Yards Well-Known Member

    You balance things by max potential.
    Laiina and Ratitz like this.