Ok, as the title says I really don't know if it's better to have a two hander or two weapons. Basically, from what I saw two weapons seems more effective, but it may be only an impression. I tried with both stances, offensive and defensive, and anytime it seems that my damage output is higher with two weapons. I read though that the weapon procs are affected by the weapon's delay, and some people on this forum say that higher damage weapons proc higher damage with the offensive stance. I examined my Fury, but it says that you proc ## - ## dam 10% of the time (I don't remember exact damage, but it's not weapon-related), so it seems to me that hitting more often would proc more often for a higher damage output. Anybody can explain exactly how it works and their personal preference (and why) of 2H vs Dual Wield? Thanks. lvl 30 Kerra Berserker Oasis server
Dual wield is better hands down if you can find good dual wield weapons. Offensive stance has a 10% chance to deal damage when we hit a mob, and you're hitting a lot more when you have dual wields. Offending Defense has a 20% chance to proc when we hit. Dual wield owns 2h when you're dpsing.
First, Offending Defense is a defensive proc, not offensive. It doesn't matter what you're swinging, or even that you're swinging at all. Also, the chance to fire an offensive proc is normalized against a 3-second combat round. Do some long-term parsing and you should find that both weapon arrangements fire your offensive stance's proc at a similar rate. najena.konk
Also: Additional strikes due to haste and CAs are not normalized, thus, a slower weapon actually ends up proccing "more." If you use a longbow to pull you will find it almost always procs something on the pull shot due to it having higher delay than melee weapons. I personally used 2-hand weapons nearly exclusively prior to the revamp. Since the revamp tho a shield significantly improves tanking performance so it's 1hander and shield for me sometimes, and 2-hander other times. Dual Wield does not even enter the equation.
I dont parse (cause im too lazy), but I had noticed that I proc less often with dual wielders than with a two hander, which I thought was really weird but your explanation makes sense. I had read once that to compare dmg modifiers on your dual wield weapons you should take the dmg rating of your primary hand and add about 40% of the damage rating of your off hander. If this number is not higher than your damage rating on your two hander, then its not as good. Maybe the parsers out there can confirm or deny that. The theroy is that dual wield is a skill that doesn't always go off, and your off hander will only swing about 40% of the time. I have never really dual wielded, but about to finish SSoY quest and have a SBD in the bank so I thought I would try those out vs my cedarwood bo staff with gleaming strike. Pretty sure they wont compare though. Also agree with above poster that for tanking hard monsters the shield makes a big difference, so also need to have a good onehander handy . Indya 47 Berserker Rat
I parse slightly higher with a 2-H in DPS and I also receive less damage. You get risposted much less on basic melee. I think I also hit more melee damage with a 2-h because of the long weapon delay letting me throw combat arts inside em and I get less (lag) in attacks.
I would have to totally disagree with Fundinn in this issue. Imho, a 2-hander is hands down way better than dual wield weapons if it comes JUST to the terms of DPS. Why? Many of the above posts already explain why so i wont go into details. Things like lesser ripostes, proc rate actually HIGHER (yes since the 3s thingy) and the fact that you dont _miss_ melee attacks while using long cast time skills (like 2s barrage) are a factor. Also, i happen to love 2-handers (since i already use dual wielders with my scout already i dont wanna use em with my zerker even if they were even with the 2-handers or better) ++Xan
2 handers vrs DW. My rule is: Use whichever is better, upgrade whichever is worse. I like to carry a whole range of weapons. Main priority is to get yourself at least one each of legendary Slash Pierce and Crush type. Right now I'm still using the SSoY and SBD because they were still a nice combo when I stopped playing and havent upgraded yet. They still do fine for me. Some friends gave me a nice new 2 hander though so I'll likely switch over to that more often. Rujarkian Steel Axe is the name I think.
I used the SDB and the PGT until i got my EBBC, so i think that two handers are better as far as damage goes. Oh, and i never bothered with the SSoY becuase the ward proc on the PGT helps alot when soloing or tanking.
When Dual Weilding now your Primary weapon does more damage then your offhand does. I can out damage a Berserker with a 2 hand weapon no problem at all now. Riposte rate to 2hand riposte rate is comparable, nethier will get you killed faster then the other unless the mob has a Damage Sheild on, then Dual Weilding is dangerous.
In another thread, I just did a comparison of zerker melee with dual and two-hand, using figures obtained from my mid-30's experiments. I worked from average melee swing for 2 hand of 75 (50-100 dmg per swing with weapon in hand, 2.5 second swing) and 25 per weapon for duals (20-30 dmg per swing, 1.2 second swings unbuffed), GS imbued weapons, and ONLY the 10% countering-strike buffs figures, since SKILL strikes do the same damage (based on spell level), recast at same rate, and so on, regardless of what you're using. What I arived at is that between imbued procs, the berserking resulting from being hit, and so on, is basically a 1500 - 1600 damage difference between using two-hand and duals, to the advantage of the dual user. At 43 (current level), if I buy cheapie two-hand and cheapie dual off arms merchant, to compare, my DPS/attack rating is actually higher with the duals, as well...so I suspect this difference is steady all the way up levels, though I'm not in a position any longer to buy best GS imbued two-hand weapon for 40-50 use I can find AND best GS imbued dual-wields so I can do direct test on myself...but what I CAN say, from duelling, is that I have yet to lose to a berserker using anything other than duals, if he's within 3-4 levels of myself, even if that level advantage puts him in next tier gear (three duels against level 42 and 43 berzerkers using two-handed imbued weapons when I was 39...worst one, I had 38% HP and 24% power remaining when she dropped) On the OTHER hand...a pally with one-hand and shield makes me work my bloody barbarian butt off, and often manages to chain-stun/impede movement often enough to kill me before he's had a need to waste power on self-heals. Berserker skills that "interrupt" casting and are available to dual wielders don't fire off fast enough to balance this.
Big Axe. Big big big big sharp shiny axe. Anything else is for girls and elves. How can you aim to be a raving homicidal maniac without an axe. Don't care if someone brings proof that anything else does better damage. I like me axe.
You know what's better than one axe? TWO axes that you can indiscriminately flail around at everything in the area with, slashing and bashing until you're knee-deep in blood and gore. Dualies win again :robotmad:
If your soloing or tanking you need a one hander and a shield or you avoidance will be the pits and you'll be to stunned to hit with any weapon. For the dps roll, it really depends on your choose. both duel and 2hnder yield good dps results. Of course the new cobalt duel wield weapons have very nice stats and damage. Haven't seen a cobalt 2hnder yet.
It all depends on what kind of dw and 2 handers u have. But i still notice that my 2 handed pris does more damage than 2 cedar quarterstaffs but i still like using the quarterstaffs for the nice graphics on em Message Edited by SirPrec!ze on 09-21-2005 11:30 AM
I haven't seen this to be true through RoV, Nek Castle, Zek, EL, RE, Rivervale, Feerrott, CT, or Lavastorm...I get interrupted in casts on the two spells I regularly use that have long casts (the AEs), and if I try to use stunning cry or cold retribution, they often get interrupted, too, but I am rarely stunned into losing melee, nor are my other skills impeded at all, since they cast so quickly...I solo just fine against anything up to 3 levels higher than me that cons "normal", groups of 4-5 white-con "normals", singleup heroics two levels down, doubleup heroics 5 levels down, and so on, and tank just fine in CT against the 49 tripleup trios and the summoner's pet, with a 4 person group consisting of myself, mystic/warden/fury, and a pair of nukers, noone over 43, and the healer just 38, in one case (XP rocks, when I do this, too)...plus the added DPS of dual wield means I hold aggro better, and less often have to cast like crazy to reaquire it after the ukers chain-blast the targets. MIGHT turn out to be true in EF and above...but I haven't been in yet to try it.
For me I feel as if DW is doing more damage for me. In my parses I noticed that there was not a huge gap between the two so I sort of just go with whatever I feel like at the moment. Currently I am either DW two cedar crudgels, or the BBC (plain version, non electrified) so part of it for me is that the BBC lacks a damage proc of its own, I have a feeling the two would be close enough to matter very little if I had a good proc on my 2h. The damage rating is the same, but the crudgels win out with their combined 26 agi and 16 str. So for me it is more of going with slightly better stats and what I feel appears to do more damage based on in game factors (how quick stuff dies, how much damage i take, how much power I use, etc...) That being said I pretty much only use either of those when solo or duo or in a trio with no healer. Otherwise I use the SBS and SM/cedar club. I feel like in a larger group there are other classes who are now so much better at dps then me that I am better off catering to my stregth, which is taking damage and not dieing. I use the offensive stance if there are 2 healers, unless they still seem to have problems healing me, though I only notice this happening with poor choices of healer combinations such as two of the same or two that do not compliment each other. Jinos L D'L
the stats on the 2 handed tend to be better than the dual weild. There's very little reason to go anything but RGF, if you dont have prismatics. the proc is insane damage, and it gives +27 STR, and i think its +24 STA.
Yeah...but are they enough better to match the stats on a pair of DW weapons? That's what really matters, you know. If you find a 2H that does 10 str, 4 wis, 6 agi, 8 sta, it's stats boosts compare equally with a pair of DW that EACH do 5 str 2 wis 3 agi and 4 sta, after all... As for DPS matching for melee figures... use this calc to compare weapons: # of hits per cycle you'll make with this weapon equipped / average delay * damage range That will give you the "bare bones" DPS of the weapon so...say you're looking at slashing weapons, 30-40, and you notice (I'm gonna list crap weapons with no stats and no procs, to do this) Feyiron Greatsword 2H 16-49 dmg 2.5 seconds Feyiron Scimitar 1H 7-22 dmg 1.3 seconds Feyiron Short Sword DW 4-12 dmg 1.2 seconds Well, what you'll get is this: With dual wield, you hit once with each weapon per cycle, and cycle every 1.2 seconds, so base melee DPS figures to compare go like this: Feyiron SS ( 2 / 1.2 ) 4 - ( 2 / 1.2 ) 12 = (1.6666~ * 4) through ( 1.666666 * 12 ) damage per second, or 6.666~ - 20 DPS "rating" on using the pair Feyiron Sc ( 1 / 1.3 ) 7 - ( 1 / 1.3 ) 22 = ( 0.769 * 7) through ( 0.769 * 22 ), or 5.38461 - 16.923 DPS "rating" on weapon Feyiron GS ( 1 / 2.5 ) 16 - (1 / 2.5 ) 49 = ( 0.4 * 16) though ( 0.4 * 49 ), or 6.4 - 19.6 DPS "rating" on the weapon The actual DPS for the weapon, is, of course, dependant on what your stats boost the "your hands" range to...but if they're all slashign weapons you're looking at, your slashing rating and stats aren't going to change by changing weapons that don't have stats, so those are the comparisons on the damage ranges of those weapons on a per-second basis if they're each placed in the hands of the same person. As you can see form above, matching melee on a 2H vs dual wield is pretty close...marginally favors the DW, if all other things are equal, but I've found that comparing stats boosting DW and 2H of the same ltier/rarity tends to give a SLIGHT advantage to the DW, and, as I'm trying to convince Sabin in another thread, gives the oppertunity, with imbueds, to double the number of procs you can expect...the only real diff in melee effect is how big a jump the mob's health bar makes downwards every time you swing...with DW, it tends to drop steadily and slowly, with 2H, it drops fitfully in bigger jumps. Also, since you rarely fight a mob for 100 seconds, you're more likely to make crits on each mob using duals than when using 1H/2H, even though thos crits are comparitavely smaller...I'd rather do an additional 33 damage per 33 seconds of fighting through crits than an additional 99 damage every 99 seconds of fighting, because, generally, that means I kill EACH mob faster, rather than being slow on two, and ripping through every third. Message Edited by GurgTheBashur on 09-23-2005 12:36 AM
