[p]Hello All,[/p][p] [/p][p]I am curious what role on a raid you two-handed zerkers serve. Surely you are not Main Tank or Secondary tank right? If you are, do you have some quick way you swap back in a 1hander and shield or how do you get on taking over when the main tank goes down with a 2hander equipped?[/p][p]If you are not in one of the above listed roles on a raid, why did the raid leader not just grab an predator or sorceror instead?[/p][p]Muraha[/p]
I guess not much seeing the parses Enrage and Kemt did. It seems the buckler is much better than a 2H weapon so i guess if your aim is to dps then buckler/1h is the way to go. However I am quite interested how to change quickly to 1H/Kite in case MT goes down. Any solutions?
Just drag a board and shield onto your hotbars, takes 2 seconds to swap out. If your mt goes down(and your ready to pick up) just pick up and take the damage for 2 seconds, cast mit buff while that weapon change happens, shouldn't be one shotted =p
[p]No, they changed it so there is a 2 second delay when equipping or un-equipping items during combat[/p][p]Also, there is no equip macro as far as I know, only UNEQUIP[/p][p]The quickest way is as a previous poster said to link 1 hander and shield to hotbar, hit shield link , cast mit buff, hit weapon link but I just think that this two seconds of fooling around equipping stuff can mean half the raid is dead. I just dont get the 2-handed mentality and I have never allowed it on my raids. I posted this thread in case I am being too narrow minded and to give some experienced 2-hander people a chance to give their side[/p][p] [/p][p]Muraha[/p]
[p]Remind me not to raid with you on Splitpaw, your attitude sucks. A berseker will add a lot to a melee DPS group and still provide a decent amount of DPS. I'm only wearing legendary gear (I've just mainswapped to my zerker) and got 1.4k DPS raidwide in FTH (excluding Treyloth). A purely DPS orientated 2 handed zerker decently geared would get far more than me. How does 1.4k +++ DPS compare with the DPS of the people you want to replace your zerker with? Also remember the STR and berserk group buffs the zerker gives.[/p][p]If I had a purely tanking AA config (and chose to use tower shield instead of buckler - i.e. not go down STA line), I would certainly bring out my 2H sword if I was in there for DPS.[/p]
[p]As to the post above me, 1400 is weak for any class that is filling a DPS role, on our raid parses you wont make to 10 unless you are doing 2k+. Even i do more then 1400 and i am MT in defensive stance mashing taunts the majority of the time. Simple fact of the matter, zerkers can put out nice dps, but is that our primary role... NO. We offer no utility like rogue or bards, we cant match the dps of a pred and any decent mage could out dps us. If someone wanted a optimal raid, we would not be in it as a dps class.[/p][p]It has already been proven(even more so with recent parse posts) that 2 hander is far weaker DPS and the only time a 1 hander was out performed was in a multi mob encounter where the 1 hander didnt have agi line. Even then the damage increase was rather lackluster. IMO SOE needs to revamp our wisdom line to be a 2 hander line, because at the moment both 2 handers and wisdom AA are usless.[/p][p]PS: you dont really need to swap out to a different shield, everything thats out there can be tanked with a good buckler[/p]
[p]I'm sure this is going to cause lots of people to flame me but you asked the question and I shall respond. I am the MA on raids, I use a 2 hander and if the MT goes down I don't have any problem picking up aggro and I don't die.[/p][p]First off to answer the first questions why do I use a 2 hander vs sword/axe and buckler well, 1) purely cosmetic reason I love the way Pride's Edge looks and I don't like the look of the buckler, 2) I have a different spec than what enrage uses and it does more dps, yes I know people are going to be calling for a parse for this I will try and get one net week since I am not in town to do it this week[/p][p]Now to answer your question Muraha about why would the raid leader let me do this and by the time you get done switching half the raid will have died. For trash going from offensive to defensive stance gives me roughly 1% extra mit so not a big deal there and for most trash I am near the top if not 2nd ont he hate list and I don't have a problem having aggro holding aggro and taking the 2 secs to click on m hot bar to get Ascendant and the Qeynos Guard equipped.[/p][p]If it is a named fight and the tank looks like he is going down I will switch to sword and board before he does, but honestly having MT'd all of KoS and most of EoF it is my general experience that if your MT goes down on a named mob the raid fight is lost unless the fight is 50% or more over and if you have gotten that far and your tank dies well that is a different issue.[/p][p]Also, Muraha you asked why would a Berserker who isn't in the MT/OT/MA roll on a raid be part of the raid isntead of a predator or a sorceror the answer is simple for our Berserk and STR buffs they can greatly help the melee DPS group increase their damage., also if the Berserker has Gut Roar will the spell is sorta blindn luck to make sure it hit son the right aoe you want it to can greatly help out raids as well.[/p]
There are still a fair few tanks that don't use STA/Buckler setup - especially if they can guarantee a shedload of hate being transferred to them. I think the STA line should be nerfed as it's crazy that most people opt for this line for both DPS AND tanking - makes a mockery of realistic freedom of choice.
IMHO, it's not the STA line that needs nerfing, but rather the damage rating on 2H's that needs to be adjusted. They really don't scale in line with the available 1H's.
[p] Curious how you have come to the conclusion that my attitude sucks. I made a decision based on what I know about the game and then came on to the official forums and made sure that my info was correct. How would you have handled the situation?[/p][p]Thank you Skel for backing me up on this one. I agree that our beserk does add to melee group dps but I feel that an extra predator or sorceror would add more dps to the raid. The purpose of this thread is to determine if this is correct, not to flame me for simply asking the question. [/p][p] [/p]
Giles@Unrest wrote: I'm not going to call you crazy or flame you for it. I used to use a 2H all the time. As far as survivability vs a buckler goes, here's how I see it. Most T7 legendary bucklers are around 4-4.5% block, and T7 fabled around 5% block. That's roughly on average 1 block out of 20-25 swings that make it passed the parry check. Add the additional 4.5% block you can get from the STA line can bring it close to roughly 1 block out of 10 or so. Of course, that's being generous if the mob is epic and above the tank's level. Even if block is uncontested (no skill check), higher con'd mobs still get hit bonuses. Now, if a healer or anyone else complains that you took that additional 1 hit out of all those swings against a single target (and the jury is still out on that, you still may have dodged it with the remaining avoidance checks) because you didn't have a buckler equipped, then they're foolish. I don't know any healer that couldn't heal through that. Block starts to really shine when it approaches 20%, OR if you're fighting multiple mobs where a flurry of hits can come in. As OT, you also have the argument that if it was that important, why did they let the MT die? It's a bit odd that someone would think it would save you, when it didn't save the MT. Your raid leader is spot on. If you're doing what you're supposed to be doing and it's not causing issues, then no worries.
[p]I DPS and also serve as ST most of the time, just setup a hotbar with your defensive/offensive stances and either hotlink your shield 1H or keep the pack open that you have them located in. [/p][p] [/p][p]and yes, i agree you can do as much DPS with a 2H as you can with a buckler, i would never raid tank with a buckler however so i still don't see why you would main tank with one unless it is to pull just a few mobs, we already know secondary tanks have it rough trying to keep up if the MT dies since they are the one with all the health/mit buffs and the healers attention. [/p]
Skel@Butcherblock wrote: Did I ever say it was a berserkers primary role? Nope, I stated that a berserker can put out reasonable DPS (1.4k+) AND provide DPS buffs to melee group members. Can a predator/summoner provide the same DPS boost to a melee DPS group? Nope. I think you're misunderstanding what I said when I said a berseker in a DPS build.
Muraha@Splitpaw wrote: OK - if you have a DPS berserker, you're going to want to put him in a melee DPS group. The overall raid DPS would be better by having the zerker in the melee group than an predator or summoner in the same group. All the melee DPS in the group is going to get the berserk proc & extra STR. BTW, how much DPS are your current predators/summoners getting ? I bet it's less than 1k DPS more than 1.4k.
Skel@Butcherblock wrote: [p] I'll also add that I did state that I got 1.4k with just legendary gear (apart from sword and MoA) etc. A MT zerker should always be getting decent dps anyway, with the guaranteed +OFFENSIVE buffs (more than those lost through using defensive stance instead of offensive stance), the +DPS, the +Haste etc etc.[/p][p]Berserkers are very fortunate in that they will out DPS brawlers even with more tanking focussed AA choices.[/p]
[p] How will that affect all the other classes that use 2H weapons? Suddenly they will seriously out DPS those in the same class using non 2H - i.e. DW.[/p][p]The best thing for berserkers would be that raiding MT zerkers could only really use tower/kite shields to be effective, buckler being fine for heroic and the best dps came from 2H. The AA's should be built around that. It's stupid that a buckler zerker can out DPS all fighters (SK excluded in certain scenarios) and still be able to tank high end epic effectively.[/p]
your weapon is pretty much the only thing that majorly affects your DPS. You might net an a small extra amount from gear, but its hardly worth mentioning. Also MT dont have very many offensive buffs, haste, dps, procs etc. Please raid something besides labs trash before you try to give people advice on what max DPS is. Also if you admit that DPS is not our primary role then why would a zerker be put into a DPS slot? There are classes out there that will do far more DPS. Our str buff is almost pointless, any decently equipred scout class will be hitting the str cap. Our berserk is nice but how much dps will it truely add for the 4 other melee classes in the group? maybe 100 max? That is still not enuf to validate putting a sub par class into the DPS role ESP when they offer NO utility. Any good assasin can hit 2500 on a regular basis, a good zerk does maybe 1800 some times with minimal group buffs and ZERO utility.
Skel@Butcherblock wrote: [p]Enlighten me, Yoda. As MT, what DPS are you getting, over 1.4k but under 2k? If you don't get into the top 10 without 2k+ DPS, that means you're looking at 10 people doing say 24k DPS, the other 14 peeps doing say 11k DPS - so you're pumping out 35k DPS. If that's the case, then I agree, you're way out of my league. In fact, you'd probably be in one of the top raiding guilds. As such, and the majority of raid guilds are pumping out <25k raidwide DPS, I'd say that makes you an exception to the rule as far as saying what a non hardcore raid should be pumping out.[/p][p]As far as farming LoLV is concerned, I'm not going to rise to it ;-) Oh, I have to say it, I'm not in a hardcore raid guild, and we just killed Cheldrak. Althought that may be pretty easy for a hardcore raid guild, I'm chuffed. [/p]
yes, you havent heard of aftermath? I am debatably the best equiped zerker in the game. It is pretty common for us to push 25k DPS and on good nights we push 35k dps As for saying what people should be pumping out, yes i realise we will typical do more then other guilds. But you have to see it as a sliding scale, i base my DPS on what others in my own guild can do, i am well equiped as are they. As my DPS increases with gear, so will thiers. The same could be said if a guild had lesser gear then ours, everything scales with tiers of gear. If a zerker in XYZ guild is doing XX DPS and is equally equiped as an assasin in the same guild with the same skill level then the assasin should be doing about XX+500 minimum more DPS